Strikeout fix-finally can k some batters

[boulet430]

Ever heard the announcer say "he doesn't have a very live fastball tonight" when you have your best pitcher on the mound? Well the reason is simple: you don't.

After some tinkering and testing with various datafiles trying to increase strikeouts for human controlled pitchers, I stumbled upon a very interesting and painfully obvious problem. Four seam fastballs have "0" movement in this game. I tinkered with MVPedit to increase movement on fastballs and BAM! There it was.

In four games tested last night I had incredibly improved strikeout numbers from Randy Johnson as well as relief pitchers Tom Gordon, Mike Stanton, and Scott Proctor.

I believe therefore that I have stumbled upon a potential fix for the strikeout woes that plague many of us. Unfortunatley this will not help people who have already started a dynasty.

I have spoken with Rod about this and he agrees this may be a potential solution and is looking in the datafile to see if there is a way to edit this there. I will play with that as well tonight.

Hope this helps guys.

[boulet430]

If there is anyone at home right now that can tinker with a datafile and then test the game, please pm as Rod has located a possible solution that I'd like to tinker with.

[wikitundra]

If you send me the values and there modified values, I can give it a try. I'll PM Rod as well.

[APR]

This kinda relates to this subject, you sometimes hear that the pitcher "took something off of that one" or "pulled the string". Anyways, you are lead to believe this is possible with the pitching meter, that by stopping it early instead of near the red or in the red you take something off the pitch. However, and I have just noticed this, that when you stop the meter early, you actually put more on the pitch, at least MPH wise. I was trying to change speeds of Brad Radke's curve, which is around 71, so I wanted to take some off so I stopped the pitch early, way early, and saw the speed jump to 77mph and the trajectory level out, like a slider.

Is there a way to even "take some off the pitch"?

[boulet430]

well Apr4488 that is a curious dillema. Taking something off of a curveball effort wise by the games logic would result in a faster speed because slow is the desired effect on a breaking pitch. Does that make sense?

In real life, taking something off happens because a pitcher who is capable of throwing a changeup as low as 80 mph probably sits around 82 most of the game. So in this case, taking something off would mean he put EXTRA effort into the pitch.

Taking something off on a fastball would be where you would see a slower pitch on less effort.

hope that helps

[JP_Frost]

If you stop the meter before the red bar, your fastball will lose a few mph and breaking pitches lose some of their "snap" and will gain a few mph. It also saves some of the stamina for pitchers.

As for live fastballs...I'm not sure how much movement most fastballs have in real life, but if putting some movement on them via mvpedit results into more k's, then we should definately work with it.

In scouting reports you always read about guys having good movement on their fastball, but I always figured they might've been talking about sinking fastballs, splitfingered fastball, cut fastballs, etc. Is the increased movement on the 4 seam noticeable in the game though?

[RRodkey]

Once Boulet told me about the 4-seam fastball issue, I found this line under <pitcher> : 41 BallFastballEff; and also this one: 40 BallBreakingEff;

These may modify the "effectiveness" of fastballs, and then curves and sliders. Curiously, these are both set to "0.00" by default. Try changing these to a positive value - say, "0.50" and see if you get more swings and misses. Then you could try "1.00" or higher.

[spitoon]

Keep us posted guys, I'd really like to get a few more K's...

[boulet430]

Is the increased movement on the 4 seam noticeable in the game though?

If you mean visually, I did not notice it no. If you mean because the hitters are missing the ball, then yes. And fastballs defintley have movement. That's why you hear about people have "straight fastballs" that get smoked.

[Expos4Ever]

I am using Kumala's datafile and Ultimate Roster. My RHP's four seamer does breaks in on Right handed hitter. :?

[peterbernard]

Yeah I've given the 4-seamers some movement in MVPEdit for some time now, but that's only when creating players like old-time pitchers. A good fastball is supposed to give the illusion of rising, but actually it just falls less than other kinds of fastballs.

[APR]

I understand about the curveball, but how would I "pull the string "on a changeup?

[boulet430]

If you throw the changeup at less than full effort you should notice that it has a few extra mph on it. This is what a pitcher NORMALLY throws. Now if you want to pull the string, you would put max effort which would slow it down even further. Does that make sense?

[Jitter]

If you dont use the meter to its full potential, sure it speeds the offspeed pitches up, but it also makes them non-quality pitches. IF you dont take the meter all the way down on a curveball it goes faster, but it also goes flatter making it more like a BP fastball. I am not sure why you guys have trouble w/ strikeouts. I use the default datafile w/ no gameplay or pitching tweaks just diff cams, and all of my starters normally get at least 10k's per game on all-star. Oliver Perez and Rich Harden are averaging 13 and 12 K's. The rest of my starters are Jon Garland, Noah Lowry, and Zack Greinke. All of them have an ERA in the low to mid 1's. It would be nice to have some movement on the 4-seamer though.

[boulet430]

If you dont use the meter to its full potential, sure it speeds the offspeed pitches up, but it also makes them non-quality pitches. IF you dont take the meter all the way down on a curveball it goes faster, but it also goes flatter making it more like a BP fastball. I am not sure why you guys have trouble w/ strikeouts. I use the default datafile w/ no gameplay or pitching tweaks just diff cams, and all of my starters normally get at least 10k's per game on all-star. Oliver Perez and Rich Harden are averaging 13 and 12 K's. The rest of my starters are Jon Garland, Noah Lowry, and Zack Greinke. All of them have an ERA in the low to mid 1's. It would be nice to have some movement on the 4-seamer though.

Do you get any ks on a straight four seamer? I believe that is where the problem lies. I can get ks on breaking pitches regularly, but fastballs rarely get a k.

[APR]

If you throw the changeup at less than full effort you should notice that it has a few extra mph on it. This is what a pitcher NORMALLY throws. Now if you want to pull the string, you would put max effort which would slow it down even further. Does that make sense?

Ya I understand. Thanks! :D

[Jitter]

I dont normally try to get k's on 4 seamers. I use the curve, splitter, sinker, etc etc. I do normally get strike 1 and 2 w/ a 4 seamer or 2 seamer though. I have gotten a couple k's w/ high fastballs out of the zone, but I dont try it too often. Some pitchers would be deadly with a 4 seamer w/ movement should be interesting to try out.

[cybernetic]

I dont know I can a lot of batters I typically throw a 4seamer up and in or low and outside and follow it with a 2seamer/cutter either low and in or low and away then the K the guy with an off-speed pitch either low and in or low and outside

[Jitter]

Id say 99% of my K's are pitches outside the zone. Curveballs, sinkers, splitters i just throw about 1 1/2 ball diameters low. Sliders i put just outside the bottom of the zone away from the batter. The other K's I get are in a 3-2 count i usually try to hit any corner of the plate w/ a 4 seamer, or mistake pitches that were supposed to be outside the zone, but ended up in the zone as either called strike 3 or a swing and miss.

[boulet430]

If you feel that the "k" situation does not affect you then please do not post in here. I don't mean to sound rude, but this is not a topic to debate whether or not k's are easy or not. If you do feel that k's are abnormally hard to come by for guys such as Randy Johnson, Halladay, Martinez, etc., then this is a place for you.

After tinkering with the datafile discussed in this thread, I did see further improvment. I will continue tonight and post results

[spitoon]

So are you saying that using MVPEdit you can add movement to 4 seamers? I know you can't in the game's Edit Player utility.

[boulet430]

So are you saying that using MVPEdit you can add movement to 4 seamers? I know you can't in the game's Edit Player utility.

That is correct Spitoon. In the same screen where you edit other pitches, you can add movement and trajectory to the 4-seamer. Some players in the game you will see already have that movement and this may also lend to the fact that some people have no trouble with strikeouts because they are playing with different players.

Also in the datafile there is a section for fastball and breaking ball effectiveness that is set at 0.00 that Rod discovered. I tinkered with that last night and saw improvement. Only one trial however so I could not say whether that was just one game or what. I will continue to test that probably 1 game late tonight and then a few tommorow. I'll post what I find if you are interested.

[emeyekayiee]

Do you get any ks on a straight four seamer? I believe that is where the problem lies. I can get ks on breaking pitches regularly, but fastballs rarely get a k.

i do. when they have 2 strikes against them, they will sometimes swing at fastballs that just outside of the strike zone.

i get most of my fastball strike outs at 12:00, high and inside, and sometimes @ 6:00

only on pitchers do i get strikeouts with fastballs in the zone

have you tried simply lowering the computers contact slider?

[Zephyr]

This is pretty interesting, but also note that very few pitchers use the four seam fastball as a strikeout pitch.

But still, very few people do throw a "straight" fastball, so this is a pretty nice idea you got here. I'd be interested in checking out a datafile or a mod with this topic.

[spitoon]

That is correct Spitoon. In the same screen where you edit other pitches, you can add movement and trajectory to the 4-seamer. Some players in the game you will see already have that movement and this may also lend to the fact that some people have no trouble with strikeouts because they are playing with different players.

Also in the datafile there is a section for fastball and breaking ball effectiveness that is set at 0.00 that Rod discovered. I tinkered with that last night and saw improvement. Only one trial however so I could not say whether that was just one game or what. I will continue to test that probably 1 game late tonight and then a few tommorow. I'll post what I find if you are interested.

Yes, I'm definitely interested. I'd love to get a few more K's...My pitcher do well as far as getting outs, but my K numbers are low.