mvp_fun Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 personally i think that some of the best baseball players were from the negro leauge. One of the fastest was James "cool papa" bell and info here http://www.blackbaseball.com/players/coolpapabell.htm this guy ran the bases in 12 seconds on a dry field (note: if you forgot the bases are 90 ft. apart which is 360 ft. long which is about 110 m i think and there are turns which make it more difficult) the other is Josh gibson here http://www.negroleaguebaseball.com/players/Gibson.html he ad more than 900 career homers which is almost 200 more than Ruth (he was referred as "black babe ruth" back then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfgiantsflgators Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 ever gone to the negro leagues museum in Kansas City? if anybody reading this is ever in town, you definetely should - it's a fantastic place. Buck O'Neil is there quite a bit as well so that's a large added bonus. the old man is in his 90's but you surely can't tell it from his handshake...strong work. and a good quote from satchel paige about cool papa bell: "Once he hit a line drive right past my ear. I turned around and saw the ball hit his *** sliding into second." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogar84 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Yes, and these facts alone show why guys like Joe DiMaggio had it easy. No talented black players to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeRudi26 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 personally i think that some of the best baseball players were from the negro leauge. One of the fastest was James "cool papa" bell and info here http://www.blackbaseball.com/players/coolpapabell.htm this guy ran the bases in 12 seconds on a dry field (note: if you forgot the bases are 90 ft. apart which is 360 ft. long which is about 110 m i think and there are turns which make it more difficult) the other is Josh gibson here http://www.negroleaguebaseball.com/players/Gibson.html he ad more than 900 career homers which is almost 200 more than Ruth (he was referred as "black babe ruth" back then) I once read somewhere Papa Bell could score from second on a routine fly ball. Rumor had it, he could turn the lights off and be in bed before it got dark. As for Dimaggio, he could have played with anyone, no matter what race. Plenty of ethnic variety in the MLB now, and 56 is untouchable to this day. As for some of the others, I definately would have to agree. Some of the "greats" would have been diminished to just average ball players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogar84 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 56 is untouchable because the talent in pitching is alot better- thanks to integration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwinginSoriano Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 While integration increased the talent pool in baseball significantly, beware of the legends. I have my doubts that Josh Gibson hit 932 homers, Satchel Paige throwing 10,000 innings, etc. Like baseball before 1903, the Negro Leagues are very sketchy stat wise and depend upon stories. (They couldn't keep all the stats.) Of course, guys like Bell and Gibson would do good in the majors, they would just not be godly like the stories dictate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleMo Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Jogar, I miss Richard Pyror in your avatar lol. Good conversation guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Just think of all the people equal in talent with players like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey Jr., Bob Gibson, etc.. who never played a single major league game. Unbelievably tragic. My favorite, Luke Easter, played a few years with Cleveland right at the end of his career (1950-52). Reached the center field stands in the Polo Grounds and almost cleared the roof in Yankee stadium in exhibition games before integration. Would DiMaggio have hit in 56 straight - maybe yes - but there'd be some other guys who would maybe have hit in more. Lots of lost homeruns, batting titles and strikeout kings lost to the winds of segregation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfgiantsflgators Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 there's no way to know who would have done well and who wouldn't have. guys like christy matthewson, walter johnson, ruth, gehrig, dimaggio, etc. were obviously worthy of the praise they have and do recieve. it's just so disappointing that these greats didn't get to face off against those that didn't get their chance to shine: wouldn't it have been great to see a ruth/paige or a johnson/gibson face-off for the pennant. maybe a cool papa bell "mad dash" a la enos slaughter in the '46 series. PS...something i learned at the Negro Leagues museum that others might not have known as well - the Kansas City Monarchs, thanks to J.L. Wilkinson in 1930, were the first team to play a game under the lights - five years before the major-league clubs adopted the policy. here's a more detailed story: http://www.thediamondangle.com/marasco/negleg/brew.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvp_fun Posted November 11, 2005 Author Share Posted November 11, 2005 regardless if people say about gibson of bell are true or not, i still think they should've been in the majors. even though the 900+ homers by gibson and bell scoring from first on an infield bunt, they are still great. Just like some people say, some of the best baseball players wern't even in the majors :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabiomontiel Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 very nice topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHatter Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 SwinginSoriano.... you said that "integration increased the talent pool in baseball significantly"... That's clearly true, but don't forget that after integration, expansion thinned the talent pool. No question in my mind that Josh Gibson may be the best catcher ever! And that Judy Johnson, Cool Papa Bell and others are legends... but I don't know that you can compare them because they were playing in different parks, and with a different ball even. Imagine if they played together? Would Babe Ruth have been the king that he was? Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogar84 Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Jogar, I miss Richard Pyror in your avatar lol. Good conversation guys. i guess this will have to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwinginSoriano Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 That's clearly true, but don't forget that after integration, expansion thinned the talent pool. More people are alive today plus there are active efforts to get players in Korea, Venezuela, DR, etc. unlike the past. I think the natural increase of population and increase in scouting has made an even DEEPER talent pool than ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvp_fun Posted November 12, 2005 Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 I once read somewhere Papa Bell could score from second on a routine fly ball. Rumor had it, he could turn the lights off and be in bed before it got dark. As for Dimaggio, he could have played with anyone, no matter what race. Plenty of ethnic variety in the MLB now, and 56 is untouchable to this day. As for some of the others, I definately would have to agree. Some of the "greats" would have been diminished to just average ball players. I know that Bell was fast but i think that lights rumor is untrue. I really highly doubt that he can travel at the speed of light. :!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biker_jim_uk Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 the lights quote is a joke, made to show the guy was very fast!!!! As an aside, the reverse is also true, in that the coloured guys didn't play against the best white players so their stats are alos enhanced! Something no-one seems to think about! Having said that, the colour bar was one of the most disgraceful thing in sports and the fact it took so long to break does diminish ML baseball in my eyes, esp as the Red Sox were the last to do so!!! It would have been great to see Paige pitch to Ruth etc, What might the 27 Yankees been like with a few Negro League players??? Shame we will never know And why is no-one mentioning Oscar Charleston, Bill James has him as better than any of the guys mentioned? To mvp_fun, good as Cool Papa was, speed is no indication of baseball ability, plenty of fast guys aren't that good, and plenty of slow guys have had decent careers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.