DJEagles Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 That could be easily fixed by higher security which could be payed for but a portion of the money being used currently on lethal injections. Also, the security has also changed drasticly between Capone and now. You know what, believe what you want, but don't kid yourself. Wilson was a murderer, a thug who terrorized thousands. Why the hell should he get to live the rest of his life, with a place to sleep, three square meals a day, and be dressed by the government, hen there are 4 corpses rotting in the ground that he was responsible for. Tookie's dead now, and wherever he has endedup, he's their problem now. On a lighter note TribeTime, I have a list of poker sites I'll pm you, and I think a couple have private tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Fact is TribeTime, Inner-city gangs are a big problem in the States. It has ruined the lives of thousands of blacks, whites, mexicans, puerto-ricans, etc. Maybe Bush should worry about what is happening on his own soil, with his own people before he tries to clean up somebody elses back yard. Street Ganags were terrorizing americans long before Osama was around, aand when Osama is gone, street gangs will still be running rampat. I also take offense to your homosexuality remark. I am a straight man, but if somebody wants to be gay, leave them alone. They aren't hurting anyone, and if they are christian, so be it. Nobody has the tight to judge them. How are they any less christian then you or I. If you ask me, it is unchristian of you to be judging them. Only God does the judging. But they are followers of the bible which states that being gay is wrong. That pretty much means that whoever wants to spread the word of the bible can. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibg.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleMo Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 " That pretty much means that whoever wants to spread the word of the bible can. I'm having a hard time following the side topic on being gay, what does this mean djeagles has a good point, but just because one person preaches something from the bible does not make them judgemental. It simple means that they are telling you what the judge said. They don't have to be the "judge" as some people accuse them of being. Now, I have heard a judgemental preacher before so do not interpret what I say as "all preachers are not judgemental". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 TT he did run the crips from behind bars and was caught doing so. Don't get caught up in the hip hop crowd's reaction to this terroist. He is a killer, and I would love to know how the world is not better without him or any other murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Hell guys, at least the terrorists are true to thier beliefs. I'm not a religion fanatic but it's kinda hard to miss those big ones like killing and homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 TT he did run the crips from behind bars and was caught doing so. Don't get caught up in the hip hop crowd's reaction to this terroist. He is a killer, and I would love to know how the world is not better without him or any other murderer. I am not defending this guy because of a hip hop influence. I belive that putting people down with a lethal injection is wrong no matter who it is. Read this article, the whole thing. This guy pretty much sums up my entire argument. http://www.chicagodefender.com/page/local.cfm?ArticleID=3089 Life, death and Stanley “Tookie†Williams by Roland S. Martin, Chicago Defender December 2, 2005 I hate gang members. The violence they have wrought in inner-cities across this country has led to the deaths of thousands of young men and women, as well as the innocent victims who have been caught in the crossfire. One of the men most responsible for the destruction is Stanley "Tookie" Williams, co-founder of the Crips gang that, along with its chief nemesis, the Bloods, have done nothing but kill the hopes and dreams of young men who have gotten caught up in their silly turf battles, and even killed over their respective blue and red colors. He sits on death row in California. And on Dec. 13, he may very well confront the same fate that awaited many of his disciples. For them, their demise came at the end of an Uzi or 9 millimeter handgun. For him, it will be a needle. Williams was convicted for the deaths of three people in 1979. He maintains that he didn't commit the crime, never acknowledging if there were other murders he is responsible for. But soon, that may not matter. His time is running out. The U.S. Supreme Court has refused to hear his appeal. The California Supreme Court has refused to re-open his case. The only hope he has is that California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger will show some mercy and grant him clemency, sparing his life (Then again, President George W. Bush could extend the compassionate hand of clemency. But with all the folks the prez put to death in Texas, trust me, that ain't happening). Williams has many supporters on his side - Academy Award-winning actor Jamie Foxx, who played Williams in a made-for-TV movie, rapper Snoop Dogg, the Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr., and countless others. They have marched, held candlelight vigils and rallies calling for his life to be spared, citing Williams's decision to renounce his gang affiliation, and his authoring of children's books preaching kids to never entertain gang life. The once menacing man is now a soft-spoken 51-year-old who is more Dalai Lama is his tone than stone cold killer. For goodness sakes, he's even been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. I've listened to his supporters cite his redemption and changed ways, yet still I remain conflicted. We all know the stories of people - especially black men - being convicted of crimes they didn't commit. The stories are real of those who did nothing wrong, except for being a willing victim at the hands of rogue cops and prosecutors. But there are those who deserve to be in jail, and yes, to die, for their destructive ways. Even if I sit aside his conviction for killing three people, my mind always goes back to the men who lost their lives by virtue of following in the footsteps of Williams. My Christian faith says it's right to forgive, and that only God can grant - and take - a life. Yet my flesh fights that side of me. Three people are dead. Thousands of others have been buried along with them. Why? Because of Stanley "Tookie" Williams. Lethal injection is a consequence to such heinous violence. My daddy always told me that if you do wrong, you must face judgment. Death Stanley, that's what the jury said you deserve. Yet I struggle with the notion of whether Williams is more valuable alive than dead. Christians preach the gospel because the Good Book says that even when one is saved and commits their life to Christ, all the angels in heaven rejoice. Just one says yes to Christ, and all of heaven is in an uproar. So if Williams is allowed to keep breathing, can the life of one kid be altered by hearing his voice and deciding not to join a gang? Is it worth Stanley living to keep one mother from having to bury her child, and one father being able to see his son graduate from high school? Is Stanley's life really worth potentially the life of another? Yes it is. If he dies, we bury one. If he lives, we may not have to bury 1,000. As the Bible says, even in evil, good can come about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northpaw Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 first off he didnt actually write those books. secondly, he wasn't a model prisoner, he had raped and beaten up several inmates. And finally, even if he did write childrens books and become good, neither of those makes up for 4 dead people. Its insulting if writing a book means u dont get fully punished for your crimes. These people claiming theyre going to prove his innocence are crazy. Do you know how many times he was convicted in appeals courts. Plus hes already recieved clemency basically. They turned a death sentence into 26 years and then a death sentence. BIBLE "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death." Ex 21:12 Theres a lot more but im busy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhath Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 contrary to popular belief, the bible does NOT support an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. an uneducated person merely trying to draw from the bible a saying to back up their belief might say so, but is taking it entirely out of context. anyone who has spent any considerable amount of time studying the bible understands the differences between old testament law and new testament grace... we presently live in the dispensation of grace. heres how the bible clearly speaks out against the death penalty... in st john chapter 8, there is the story of the woman who was caught in the act of adultery. according to the law, adultery was a crime punishable by death. when brought to jesus, jesus asked the hypocritical scribes and pharisees to cast the first stone... this of course, is where the famous line, "he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" comes in. Beaten, all the pharisees and scribes leave, one by one with the elders leading the way. with now no accuser, she was free and jesus forgave her... clearly here jesus makes a statement against the death penatly... anywas, regardless if you believe in the bible or not, it takes a stand against it... now ill just ignore the part about homosexuality... might start preaching and that wouldnt be good :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhath Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 just wanted to clarify more concerning eye for an eye... your quote dshillymonkey, from exodus, is in the old testament, part of the law. not that the law is to be ignored, it clearly gives guidelines to live by, but i can discuss this very indepth with anyone in a pm if your interested but, long story short, jesus' death on the cross broke the veil in the temple separating the holiest of holies from the rest of the tabernacle... in turn... now all have access to the place where before only the high priest had access, thus man needs no mediator for forgiveness, as the high priest was. therefore, the laws like that concerning and eye for an eye are no longer relavent because all have access to jesus, not just the high priest. the reason those laws were in place was because the high priest had to atone for those sins and the only way he could was through a punishment and a sacrifice... since that no longer had to happen, because all could reach the holiest of holies... it doesnt apply anymore... hope this clears that up... if not i can try to explain more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themewin Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Now that has to be one the more ignorant things I have heard. How about editing that statement to the other lowlife's that are rotting in jail not making a contribution for society and rehabilitating themselves. That post is absolutely wrong in my view...What if he killed your brother or close family member? Wouldn't you like to see some action taken against, other than letting him sit in jail? Fact is, he KILLED 4 PEOPLE. It doesn't matter what he is trying to do while in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northpaw Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I am not uneducated on the bible granted I havent studied it as much as I should because I'm Catholic not Baptist. But the Bible constantly contradicts itself. That is a very good passage of the bible. However, just a couple chapters later Jesus is talking about killing people who don't believe him and killing peopel who curse there parents. I tend to take a pro death penalty stance because I feel like theyve been proven guilty and we can't even think of a punishment great enoguh so we leave it up to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhath Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 actually, the bible does not contradict itself... you just dont understand it in context its all very complicated though, but one of my favorite things is to hear someone with a real understanding explain it.... its really quite fascinating whether you believe it or not... just learned sunday that the bible lists 40 kings and their countries in perfect chronological order... (it can be established through not biblical ways) chances of that happening? 1 in 750 sextillion... for you math majors... its this... 1/750,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.... thats not luck folks... not so contradictory as you might think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 That post is absolutely wrong in my view...What if he killed your brother or close family member? Wouldn't you like to see some action taken against, other than letting him sit in jail? Fact is, he KILLED 4 PEOPLE. It doesn't matter what he is trying to do while in jail. Nobody is dening that he killed 4 people. Nobody will answer my question. Why do you guys find spending life in jail so desireable? It is a HUGE penalty whatever way you look at it. Killing people is just wrong, and the biggest penalty after that is putting them in a life sentence. In internet talk, a permanent ban from every day life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJEagles Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 ...And being dead is a permanent ban from EVERYTHING? Why should he get to choose people to die, and then get to live after the fact? Prison life is still a life....being dead isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJEagles Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I would imagine prison life is a little more desierable then being in a coffin...just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basballfanatik9 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 He deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Ok, now this is confusing so pay attention. So, we are killing someone for killing people, why arn't we killing ourselves, because arn't we killing people after all, which is exactly what we are convicting this guy of. So, are you saying should we have someone rape a serial rapist? Should we have someone rob a burglar's house? Should we start sending illegal immigrants to countries who put thiers in the US? None of these instances make any sense so why should it be any different with life and death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 He deserves it. Let me just clarify that I think that this man should serve the most severe humane punishment that we have to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJEagles Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Absolutley....Rapists should be casterated....Burgular's should be beaten, drug delaer's should be strung up and tarred...illegal immigrants...I don't fault them, they are obviously trying to flee to a better life. Any criminal should be severly punished...obviously repeat offenders aren't learning anything in prison...hence the term "repeat offenders". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 I'm not even going to bother mentioning all of the reasons that Hammurabi's Code is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhath Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 yea... i think dj needs to go to africa lol.... they still do that there... the golden rule bro... would you want that done to you? and what if your innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJEagles Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Listen, I guess I am just annoyed because I have had a member of my family a victim of a serious crime....I guarantee it it has happened to someone yo love, you will have a different attitude towards things. People can act all self righteous now...but you'd be singing a different tune if you or a loved one were a victim of a crime. These people in prison...I mean the guilty ones, are a step above animals in my opinion. They don't deserve respect from law abiding citizens. Yes, I do beleive the burgulars, and petty criminals can be rehabilitated...but the murderes and sex offenders...no way! They as human beings disgust me...and yes I am judging them, they are social rejects...and the murders, yes they deserve in my opion to die. You commit murder, you go to Hell when you die, may as well speed the process up. Criminals deserve the maximum punishment...be it life in prison or death. We are never going to agree on anything...so why not just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Let me just clarify that I think that this man should serve the most severe humane punishment that we have to offer. This man, who did an inhumane thing called murder, should suffer an inhumane punishment. If someone goes out and does something wrong that is as severe as killing someone, that person deserves to be killed, too. Not only will it make the families of those who were killed feel better, but it will teach everyone else not to make these decisions like joining gangs. If someone murders 4 people, and then in jail writes books about not joining gangs, and then gets off death row, then everyone will think it's alright to murder people, as long as they write books persuading people not to do it in jail. If you ask me, if the death penalty was used more often, there would be a LOT less crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I'm not even going to bother mentioning all of the reasons that Hammurabi's Code is wrong. If Hammurabi's Code still exsisted today, there would be a lot less crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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