paulw Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I got a little bored during Christmas break so decided to do some updating on the Polo Grounds - I released the first version fairly quickly in the Spring in order to see how to fix the "Cooperstown Effect". The new version is kind of a romanticized one. I'm using a scoreboard from the 1940's - I really liked that old Knickerbocker beer advertisement. The trees on the Harlem River in front of Yankee Stadium are slightly exagerated but I thought they looked kind of nice. Here's a pic of where I'm at now. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see. I should be releasing this in the next day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Is this what the Polo grounds actually looked like at some point? (I am asking if your version is a fantasy or authentic stadium from any particular era during the Polo grounds days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Well, obviously I'm gonna have a few comments here. Obviously, the most important omission in the EA version is the outfield bullpens, seen here: http://digitalballparks.com/National/Polo_640_4.html . They were in the corners, as you probably know, but the most important element is the little awning thing in each corner, as well as what seems to be a bench or a small wall or something. Not sure if it's even worth messing with, but the EA version has the collision detection immediately follow the seating on each side of the curved bowl in foul ground, while http://digitalballparks.com/National/Polo_640_5.html shows that there was a short, like 2' wall that cut some of that distance off. To that end, that picture also shows a lot of stuff immediately behind the plate, if you have the vertices to build any of that. One other thing there, you can see a Knickerbocker ad on the facing of the upper deck behind the plate. http://digitalballparks.com/National/Polo_640_7.html garage doors on the right field fence. http://digitalballparks.com/National/Polo_640_12.html another ad behind the plate. http://digitalballparks.com/National/Polo_640_18.html closeup on the sign. Obviously these are all nit-picky things, since all I really care about are accurate dimensions. Anything above and beyond that is great. Lookin' good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 Is this what the Polo grounds actually looked like at some point? (I am asking if your version is a fantasy or authentic stadium from any particular era during the Polo grounds days) It's basically authentic from around the 1940's. See the pic above. I was also looking at some old films of it from "When It Was a Game" last night. What's "romanticized" is the slight exageration in the backdrop. The trees are a little bigger and the buildings somewhat bigger. This is where I got a little "artsy". There was a time (when I'm not sure) when there was also the Gem Razor sign alone on the left field and right field walls. The real fantasy is there's way too many fans in the stands. Well, obviously I'm gonna have a few comments here. Obviously, the most important omission in the EA version is the outfield bullpens, seen here: digitalballparks.com/N...640_4.html . They were in the corners, as you probably know, but the most important element is the little awning thing in each corner, as well as what seems to be a bench or a small wall or something. Hey, Sean! Yeah I definetly want to get the bullpen roofs in. That should be an easy one (as long as they don't *&^% disappear on me). I noticed the other signs you mentioned also while watching "When it was a Game". They all seemed to have something to do with Knick beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 It's basically authentic from around the 1940's. See the pic above. I was also looking at some old films of it from "When It Was a Game" last night. What's "romanticized" is the slight exageration in the backdrop. The trees are a little bigger and the buildings somewhat bigger. This is where I got a little "artsy". There was a time (when I'm not sure) when there was also the Gem Razor sign alone on the left field and right field walls. In 1940 they removed the Gem Razor signs from the left and right field area, which effectively removed the different heights in those parts of the stands. From that point on, the walls were a uniform 12' and 11'. The real fantasy is there's way too many fans in the stands. oooh, ouch. That's why I removed, oh, about 65,000 fans from my Cleveland Memorial mod. If you ever update your old-time version of that park, you're more than welcome to copy my crowd.o file in, since I really feel it captures the feel of the place: empty and ugly, but not without its charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedman Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Looks pretty good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLegend Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Looks great, love what you've done. It does look odd to see a Polo Grounds without the Chesterfield's ad in the center. Too bad we can't 'activate' a night and day option for the Polo Grounds so that we can have a 50's accurate and 40's accurate version in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Looks great, love what you've done. It does look odd to see a Polo Grounds without the Chesterfield's ad in the center. Too bad we can't 'activate' a night and day option for the Polo Grounds so that we can have a 50's accurate and 40's accurate version in the game. Yeah, adding park slots is pretty much near the top of my dream list, since it would make projects like mvp06 and '94 so much better overall. As it is, I would love for someone to re-align all the stadiums in tc4, so the '77-'96 etc. Yankees play in current-day Mordor, while any of the earlier teams play in the older version. This could also work in replacing CBP with night and day versions of the Vet. But, it's a ton of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 It does look odd to see a Polo Grounds without the Chesterfield's ad in the center. Too bad we can't 'activate' a night and day option for the Polo Grounds so that we can have a 50's accurate and 40's accurate version in the game. I'm not sure I like it either :roll: :roll: . It sure is colorful and looks pretty but it seems a little strange to me also. Maybe I'm going to *tank* it. 8O There were actually 4 versions of the clubhouse that I know of: Nothing on it at all (earliest years) The Knickerbocker years The Chesterfield years The Rheingold years (N.Y. Mets 1962 until demolishing) SeanO (that guy really knows his ballparks) maybe his more info on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLegend Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I hope you didn't think I was being negative in anyway!?! I just have a plaque on my wall above my desk of 'the shot heard round the world' so every day I look up and see the Chesterfield's ad. The eyerolling makes me think you didn't approve of what I said, and if that is the case, I apologize. That Knickerbockers sign reminds me of the Olde English 'HA-HA' image everyone is using on the internet now. If I can ask, what kind of OEdit moving stuff around did you do? As with your Forbes Field, I was able to port it to XBOX fairly easy and it's one of my favorite parks. Also, if you would like to do it next, I have ALL the graphics needed for a 1960's era Sportsman/Busch Stadium I. I just can't OEdit the XBOX version, so it needs someone with the PC to place some things. If you are intereseted in that in the future, let me know. Again, I apologize if our signals were crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 That Knickerbockers sign reminds me of the Olde English 'HA-HA' image everyone is using on the internet now. HAH, oh my god you're right. I kept having some weird thought regarding the image, and it was definitely my subconscious recalling that image. Personally, and it's just my opinion, I would bring back the Chesterfield logo just because it is so classic and so beautiful, then just do other cosmetic changes to the park. It would be great to really get the overhang in left, and I wish I had more time to help you out with that aspect of it, but I already have a bunch of projects lined up that I probably will never even begin. HL, my interpretation of paul's response is that he really isn't thrilled with the Knick logo in center, even though he spent a ton of time on it. Something I, and probably you, have experienced a bunch of times as well. Having to delete my first attempt at the Yankee Stadium bleachers and my major modification to Ebbets Field really hurt, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 HL, I'm not upset in any way. You expressed exactly the way I feel about it. If I'm upset at anybody it's me for wasting 2 or 3 hours putting the stupid Knickerbocker sign in. Ask Hyman sometime about some of the other "BRILLIANT" ideas I've had. I'm going to bring back the Chesterfield sign for when I release this. That's why I posted this to the board - for yours and any one else's feedback. Thank you :-) For myself - I'm going to keep using this version and see if it grows on me - maybe like a fungus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLegend Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 Nice - never saw this. LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbernard Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Wow, the Knickerbocker ad looks incredible. If I had a choice, I'd download that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLegend Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Wow, the Knickerbocker ad looks incredible. If I had a choice, I'd download that one. I agree. Don't trash this version. If it isn't too much work, just do both. But don't simply get rid of this one. It's too cool, too unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipo2944 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Hi. this is my first post on this board.as an old fart i wonder if anyone could fix the forbes field mod there was a screen that ran from rf line to 375ft mark in the lower stands this seems to be only thing missing from what is to me a wonderful mod p.s. i think you guys do a great job with all your work thanks tipo2944 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronForge Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Any way to fix the flagpoles? If I remember right, I think the last version they disappeared also. I know it's a small thing but it's kinda weird looking at flags waving in mid-air. Other than that, a piece of beauty you have there, can't wait!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medric822 Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 WOW, thats great, and you added the most overlooked detail, Yankee Stadium in the background! I give you an A++ with brownie points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 Wow, the Knickerbocker ad looks incredible. If I had a choice, I'd download that one. Thanks, Peter. I looked at it today again and really sort of like it. There's a biblical story where it's said to Lot "Show me one righteous person and I will not destroy it". I found my righteous one... I"m updating a couple more buildings and then am going to add the bullpens. It should be ready to go at that point. Probably another few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padres67 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 After you do the polo grounds would you consider updating crosley by putting the 9' screen above the short wall from center field to the right foul pole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 I think I'm just about ready to go. Here's a left field shot showing the added bullpen sheds and the classic NY Apartments that were behind the left field stands. Center field is pretty much the same as in the first post of the thread. I think the bullpens are a bit too far in from left a right center but I could only take them to where the walls start curving towards center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Hey Paul- Looking great. Only thing is, I'm pretty sure all advertisements save for the knickerbocker ones were removed by this point. I'm not familiar enough with poloday.big to know whether that gem razor sign is a simple 4-point object or a part of the wall, but if it's post-1940 but pre-Mets, there weren't any ads in that area. I guess you could try replacing it with the garage doors in right field, or try to put the dimension markers in their correct location at the bottom as seen here: http://digitalballparks.com/National/Polo_640_11.html Also, for the other nitpicky detail even if it will probably be impossible from what I see, I believe there was a chain link fence between the center field bleachers and the end of the seating. Man, when you look at: http://digitalballparks.com/National/Polo_640_11.html you really see how badly EA botched the Polo Grounds. The walls should be about 150% of their current height, and the seating angle is totally wrong. Not to mention the scoreboard being in the wrong location. Sigh, wish I could get paid to fix EA's mistakes, I'd be in business a long long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 SeanO - You're such a literalist What I'm trying to do is make a realistic but *artistic* rendering of the Polo Grounds from the era of the 1940's and 1950's. I'm also trying to have some fun If we tried to create perfect ballparks for each stadium we'd have to have a different one for almost every season. You have to read some Plato and his concept of reality - creation of the ideal form. You are sooooo Aristotle-like Romanticism and Idealism very much go hand in hand with Realism on the other end of the spectrum. I personally gravitate to the former. Think of how cool it would be to have a rendering of an ideal Fenway Park (I'm hitting below the belt here). Something actualized from your perception of what the perfect Fenway would be. *Art* and baseball can go together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazedcat Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Paul; I like the Knickerbocker ad a lot. The only thing that I'd like to see replace that is the old Ballantine Beer ad......but hell, leave it as it is. The pics look great, can't wait to download. Thanks as always. Regards; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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