Islamic Outrage Over Cartoon

[Pirate]

If Western Civilization's views of the islamic society had not been skewed enough, now there is this story:

ttp://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/03/cartoon.wrap.reut/index.html

I cannot understand and I am not sure too many peaceful/passifist Westerners understand, why these islmamic indivduals reacat with violence to anything that contradicts their religios views. I am not incredibly religious myself, but I believe in freedom of speech. Could someone enlighten me to why they react the way they do?

[mrmariner]

It goes all the way back to the crusades, these peoples life style and beliefs have not changed one bit.

[Sean O]

If Western Civilization's views of the islamic society had not been skewed enough, now there is this story:

ttp://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/03/cartoon.wrap.reut/index.html

I cannot understand and I am not sure too many peaceful/passifist Westerners understand, why these islmamic indivduals reacat with violence to anything that contradicts their religios views. I am not incredibly religious myself, but I believe in freedom of speech. Could someone enlighten me to why they react the way they do?

Well, even more than the US, they live in cultures based on ignorance. The great cultures that gave us such tremendous advancements in math and agriculture now have chosen a narrowminded religious viewpoint rather than objective reality. They've also become ridiculously thin-skinned, completely unable to deal with any opposition to their often insane statements.

This isn't a problem with individual people, as much as it may sound like it, it's a problem with religious leaders who force their beliefs on the entire nation.

Hey, that sounds familiar...

[JoeRudi26]

Well, even more than the US, they live in cultures based on ignorance. The great cultures that gave us such tremendous advancements in math and agriculture now have chosen a narrowminded religious viewpoint rather than objective reality. They've also become ridiculously thin-skinned, completely unable to deal with any opposition to their often insane statements.

This isn't a problem with individual people, as much as it may sound like it, it's a problem with religious leaders who force their beliefs on the entire nation.

Hey, that sounds familiar...

You mean, OUR government doesn't tell us everything? The whole truth and nothing but the truth? ;)

[Yankee4Life]

Forgive me, but it's a cartoon. That's all. And if they don't want to see the cartoon they don't have to pay their 50 cents to buy the paper and look at it.

I really don't have any patience with the Islam world because whether I am right or wrong about this, all I see from these people is violence and more violence. Some nut is going to blow something up because of this and hide behind Allah in his justification.

These people overreact, have hot tempers, make ridiculous demands to the western world, give nothing in return, and expect to be understood and treated with respect and dignity that they themselves think they deserve.

Again, if I am wrong, I'll listen to reasons why that I am mistaken. In no way do I consider myself an expert in this matter.

[Pirate]

My Editor here at the paper said, "The Danish Paper apologized, but not that it will matter. Something will have to be blown up for them to accept the apology."

It sounds bad, but it's a true statement. I agree with Y4L all I see is violence from these people. Thank goodness the reaaction by US Islamics has been much more civilized.

In many cases it has beenall the islamics except for those found in North American that are causing trouble.

[MarkB]

I don't agree with the so-called violence caused by the people who are protesting this incident and I believe that everyone has a right to freedom of speech, as well as freedom of the press such as that which the Danish newspaper had, but that's not to say they can print anything and not expect any repercussions.

I'd love to see how the American population would react if a Brazillian newspaper showed a cartoon of Jesus being portrayed as a mass murderer and rapist. Here's an estimated chronology;

Day 1 : Media coverage of incident spreads

Day 2: Becomes national news

Day 3: Politicians, priests and church followers denouce article as blasphemy/condemn the authors and printers to hell/go mad/riot

Day 4: George W. Bush addresses nation and throws verbal swords at Brazil and the newspaper

Day 5: Brazil and newspaper responds

Day 6: George W. Bush begins making speeches attacking the credibility of Brazil, the newspaper, and anyone who agrees with the publication

Days 7-20: Repeat of days 4-6

Day 21: George W. Bush declares war on Brazil.

Pirate, if all you see is violence from these people (known as Muslims, not Islamics), then why hasn't the United States erupted in violence, as there are, according to the 2001 World Almanac 2001, 5.8 million Muslims in the U.S.A? That figure is most likely way over 6 million now. It's all good saying "US Islamics [have] been much more civilized", but bear in mind that, without going too deep into the whole Muslim vs. Terrorist "Muslim" debate, Muslims in the U.S. and Middle East follow the same religion, pray to the same God and celebrate and follow the same customs.

Also, there are anywhere between 0.7 and 1.2 billion Muslims worldwide. Based on your estimation, there are at least 4 million Muslims "causing trouble". If that were the case, I think there would be a much, much, much bigger problem in the world than there is already.

[Pirate]

Do you see the US Muslims burning flags, protesting the Danish government, and burning efiges of the Danish PM? No, neither do I? This is an Eastern problem that I am thankful has not spread to the US.

While I dislike the US president as much as anyone, I think your assesment is a little over the top.

[AstroEric]

My Editor here at the paper said, "The Danish Paper apologized, but not that it will matter. Something will have to be blown up for them to accept the apology."

Don't forget that, I believe, this is the second time that the papers have printed these cartoons, this time as sort of a, "Screw you, we can print whatever we want to," message to people who originally got upset about this whole thing on September 30th when the Danish paper printed a whopping 12 cartoons featuring Muhammad, then supporting an article on free speech and free press rights.

As to the supposed culture of violence in the religion of Islam, vs. that of peacemongering in Christianity...well, wonder about the accuracy of that statement later. One possible factor is the fact that Muhammad wasn't martyred early on like Jesus, but became his peoples' leader, which meant getting his hands dirty with things like wars and conquests.

--Eric

[SwinginSoriano]

I doubt America would go to war with Brazil over someone defacing Jesus, half the shows on comedy central deface Jesus.

Sadly, terrorist groups give the Muslim World (which is not constrained to the middle-east obviously) a bad name in the United States. It seems like everyone in the middle-east is either portrayed as a victim or as a killer. Too bad in reality there are a lot of people who are just indifferent, hate the United States and Israel, and pretty much accept things the way they are.

[Sean O]

So, I just want to get this straight. The cartoon pictures Muhammad with a turbin shaped like a bomb, which offends muslims so much they want to perform violence on other people. So Muslims are violently offended at a statement that Muslims are violent?

Anyone else see something weird about this? I mean, that's like an Irish group reacting to statements that the Irish drink too much by getting really blitzed in protest. C'mon people, get it together.

These people need to freaking relax. I worship David Ortiz, and yet I don't flip out and try to kill anyone who represents him poorly. Because I'm not a crazy person.

[Pirate]

So, I just want to get this straight. The cartoon pictures Muhammad with a turbin shaped like a bomb, which offends muslims so much they want to perform violence on other people. So Muslims are violently offended at a statement that Muslims are violent?

Anyone else see something weird about this? I mean, that's like an Irish group reacting to statements that the Irish drink too much by getting really blitzed in protest. C'mon people, get it together.

These people need to freaking relax. I worship David Ortiz, and yet I don't flip out and try to kill anyone who represents him poorly. Because I'm not a crazy person.

Beautifully stated.

[Hory]

Yea, stereotypes are awesome, that way I don't have to waste time thinking about things.

[krawhitham]

it is always best not to think, being a lemming is where it is at.

With so many lemmings in the world it must be the right way to go.

[MarkB]

Do you see the US Muslims burning flags, protesting the Danish government, and burning efiges of the Danish PM? No, neither do I?

No, I don't. Probably because the government would "take care" of them before they got the chance.

This is an Eastern problem that I am thankful has not spread to the US.

So, basically, what you're saying is that every Muslim living in the Middle East is a troublemaker, or terrorist? If not, what happened to the millions of other Muslims that don't live in the U.S. that I mentioned in my last post?

While I dislike the US president as much as anyone, I think your assesment is a little over the top.

Hey, George W. Bush's father had the Gulf War. George W. Bush has had round 2 with the whole 9/11 fiasco as his excuse (not to mention implementing a shitload of new "security" features in the U.S. that do little or nothing to prevent terrorism yet invade citizens privacy), now he's probably going after Iran or Korea. Call me a presumptious person, but I think this guy is a vote-rigging warmonger who has more reason to be in Guantanamo Bay than some of the people held there.

Of course, all of this is just my opinion.

Sadly, terrorist groups give the Muslim World (which is not constrained to the middle-east obviously) a bad name in the United States. It seems like everyone in the middle-east is either portrayed as a victim or as a killer.

Co-signed. It's really a shame some people are that stereotypical and ignorant and don't care to even think of educating themselves, but as the old saying goes, ignorance knows no boundaries.

[Pirate]

I do not see where my assesments are incorrect. There is barely any and mostly no unrest in the US over this issue.

It happened in Denmark, meanwhile CNN has a report that Muslims from Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, West Bank, Egypt, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Gaza are protesting and demonstrating over this. Where are the US Muslims. They are free to demonstrate, but they are not. That is all I am saying. Muslims in the previously stated locations use violence to refute being called violent, yet it doesn't happen here. Instead Americans are too busy burning churches, getting fat, being lazy and hating the government because they are poor.

Never did I say that terrorism is restricted to Muslims, look at the rash of church burnings in Alabama, probably not a Muslim. Nor did I say all Muslims are terrorists and violent. Ihave restricted my comments to this issue over a CARTOON.

[Yankee4Life]

Look at this link right here Pirate and you'll see the Muslims are causing violence now because of a cartoon.

For a Muslim, the only way to show others how you feel is to commit acts of violence.

At the very end of that article that I linked here, you will see this sentence: CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam. That right there shows that CNN has no backbone. Remember now, these are just cartoons. They won't hurt anyone. But CNN has no problem showing a insulting picture of George Bush or someone else. And I am sure you've seen the cartoons I am talking about. The political cartoons that are in every paper in the country. CNN has those too, and they've had them up before. Again, no big deal.

Finally, here is a link to the cartoons that are causing these *&^(*& nutcases to go ballistic: Right here.

[Friedman]

Damn, these people are over-reacting. For heaven's sake, it's just a newspaper cartoon. I don't know why these Islamic people have to go out, and do all this violence just over a simple cartoon.

Y4L stated it beautifully in his first post in this thread:

I really don't have any patience with the Islam world because whether I am right or wrong about this, all I see from these people is violence and more violence. Some nut is going to blow something up because of this and hide behind Allah in his justification.

These people overreact, have hot tempers, make ridiculous demands to the western world, give nothing in return, and expect to be understood and treated with respect and dignity that they themselves think they deserve.

It's freaking ridiculous the way these people act. Violence, and more violence. In their mind: Violence+Violence=Happiness.

[AstroEric]

Things to consider.

1. For Muslims, as I understand it, the portrayal of Mohammed is either a form of blasphemy or iconography, both of which are shunned by the religion.

2. These cartoons were printed in a country (Denmark) where, in the last election, the anti-Muslim party, i.e. the party whose platform is mostly "Kick out the Muslims," got 12 percent of the vote.

3. The cartoons had been printed once already, in September, with not as much backlash. The prevailing idea about the reprinting of the cartoons is that it was meant to rub salt in the wound. The outrage from many people is not so much the cartoons themselves, but what they stand for, which is, basically, naughty-word the Muslims.

[AstroEric]

P.S. I should probably add that I don't condone the violence, and very seldom do condone violence in any situation. But the story here is a little more than, "What? Cartoons? Let's kill!"

--Eric

[Yankee4Life]

P.S. I should probably add that I don't condone the violence, and very seldom do condone violence in any situation. But the story here is a little more than, "What? Cartoons? Let's kill!"

--Eric

I understand it is a lot more than that. But these people seem to make everything into a personal war, or Jihad, or whatever the hell the word is. Obviously, the Muslims hated these cartoons. But instead of issuing a statement to voice their displeasure of this peacefully, they had to resort to what they are best known for. And that's participating in violent demonstrations that always and I mean always resort to something being blown up or set on fire.

Muslims must have a out and out hatred of buildings because they seem to go out of their way to destroy them. Every time I read about these people or watch the news and they are on it, a building that was not bothering anyone gets blown up.

Let me apologize to everyone right away because I really do not like to talk about anything political in here or really anywhere. I'm not a politically active person. But I have reached a point where I have no further need to try and understand or have sympathy for these people.

I really honestly believe they are at their happiest in life when they are P-o'ed off at the world and causing destruction somewhere. If I am wrong, please tell me. But I don't think so.

[ixcuincle]

I rarely comment on political matters and I'm no expert but I have to agree with many of my fellow forumgoers when they say this is going too far. It's a cartoon. Lighten up.

I was extremely surprised when I was listening to political pundit Sean Hannity and he said these muslims contemplated beheading the cartoonist who drew this. Why? Isn't that going too far? I'm aware caricatures of Muhammad are against Islamic beliefs but there's no need to be this violent. The civilized way to resolve conflicts is to simply mail the author and tell him you displease of this cartoon and why , not rioting in the streets and burning flags.

And what's with these islamic insurgents on tapes threatening to shoot and behead innocent contractors and peacekeepers in Iraq? What's the point of kidnapping a good Christian Science Monitor girl like Jill Carroll and threatening her with death? It's just inhuman that these people can actually do heartless things like kill innocent contractors. If you don't like the way Iraq is being run take it up with the senate or government or write letters. Don't go around getting angry , joining radical islamic groups , and beheading people who have nothing to do with your troubles. Sheesh.

[MarkB]

What's the point of kidnapping a good Christian Science Monitor girl like Jill Carroll and threatening her with death?

And what's the point of throwing every Muslim, no matter how peaceful they are and no matter how much they detest and condemn what's happening in these incidents, into the same cage as a bunch of fanatical idiots who love nothing more than to cause terror, fear and death?

(I'm not saying you've done this, ixcuincle, just making a point.)

You know, I told myself yesterday that I was really going to try and avoid these debates, because it's becoming impossible to make a sensible point when some people only believe what the great, truthful and non-biased media tells them, but this kind of crap is really pissing me off now.

I'm not Muslim, but with the way they are being treated these days, I can see exactly why the average Muslim is becoming more and more pissed off. To be honest, I don't disagree with them either. I don't think there is anything remotely acceptable about these people threating to kill people and burning buildings, but the next person who launches one of those "look at those evil Muslims causing trouble and burning buildings" speeches in front of me will very probably end up with a very sore face. And you know why? Not because I advocate violence, not because I agree with what the so-called "Islamic extremists" are doing, but because I'm a firm believer of showing honour and respect, and associating some of my best friends with terrorists not only makes my blood boil each and every time it happens, but also because it incites such a rage in me that cannot be described appropriately in words.

So the next time you wonder why a Muslim becomes angry or violent, think about that before you go calling him a terrorist.

[Yankee4Life]

One thing to consider what Mark just said in his post is that he has more of an understanding of the Muslim viewpoint than I do. Knowing Muslims in real life can help you understand where they are coming from. And this is what he has over me. I don't know one Muslim. Growing up I didn't know a Muslim in my neighborhood. You were either Catholic, Protestant or Jewish. So it is a disadvantage for me to not know what really makes them tick.

My posts in here have been directly related to what I have seen on TV and read on the internet. I've just been tired of hearing about these kinds of acts of violence. As I said, I am no political expert and I don't pretend to be.

[Pirate]

[sarcasm]At least it's calming down now:[/sarcasm]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/0...ests/index.html

Honor and respect? Where does that come into play. These Muslims, Islamic Extremist, Idiots, Terroists whatever you want to calm them are not comanding any honor or respect. They are hoodlums. NOTE: These Muslims, not all.

Mark, your respose only furthers the stereotype of pugilistic Scotts. Everyone is stereotyped and everyone is painted with a broad brush. The Danish embassy did nothing wrong, but it is associated with Denmark and the newspaper so these idiots burnt down the embassy, that makes some real good sense.

What's next The danish flag is red white and blue so lets fly some planes into another city in the US, Brittain, Australia, Ohio, any damn place that is remotely possibly kind of related to what maybe should have offended tehse people. It's ridiculous.

Supporting these people is worse.