Pitchers pitch selection

[Bron Y Aur]

Hey guys, I just got the Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers, which list the pitch selection of any pitchers who played either 400 games or 1,000 innings. So, for anyone who is creating an old school team, or would just like to update who throws what in their game, just list here who you want and if he's in there I'll look it up for you and post all relevant info (for some it show pitches thrown early and late in their careers, as well as notes on delivery, etc.).

[Davidc]

but my 1992 roster averages about 40 players per team x 26 teams, and about half of those players would be pitchers. This would reperesent a total of anywhere from 500 to 600 pitchers, about half of whom would likely be in the book. That's quite a workload!

If you still want to do some as a trial, let me know and I'll send you a sample list.

[sq322]

RGlass, Fuzzone, Freddy Fastball, Kamasutra

for starters.

J/K...this could be a valuable resource...

How bout

Bob Forsch

John Tudor

Jouaqin Andujar

[Bron Y Aur]

First off, Davidc, sure, no prob, just give me some time to find all the info and I would have no problem doing so. I can't be sure that all the pitchers you are looking for are in this book (remember, it lists pitchers, that they could find any kind of info on, who threw 1,000 inning or 400 games, which obviously would not include some spot starters and some in the bullpen) but I'll give you what's in there. Either post who you want here, or email me (Bron_Y_Aur78@hotmail.com).

sq322, here's what I could find (also listing sources, in case you would like to do further research). Note that if multiple versions of pitch selections are listed, it is because they came from different sources (unless otherwise noted as early and late career, or something similar).

Bob Forsch:

6'4" 200-pound righty

168-136 (W/L), 3.76, 3 saves 1974-1989

1. Fastball

2. Curve

3. Change

source: The Sporting News (08/23/75, Neal Russo)

John Tudor:

6'0" 185-pound lefty

117-72 (W/L), 3.12, 1 save 1979-1990

1. fastball

2. slider

3. curve

4. change

source: The Sporting News (08/02/80, Joe Giulotti)

1. Change

2. Fastball

source: The Scouting Report: 1987

qoute by Whitey Herzog: "...in five years with the Cardinals, John Tudor never threw his curveball to a righthanded batter...Breaking stuff wasn't his main attraction anyway. John lived off changeups."

source: You're Missing a Great Game (Herzog and Jonathan Pitts, 1998)

Jouaqin Andujar:

6'0" 170-pound righty

127-118 (W/L), 3.58, 9 saves 1976-1988

1. fastball

2. slider

note: Andujar would pitch from over the top, three quarters, and sidearm.

source: The Scouting Report: 1987

Also worth noting that Bill James lists in a seperate article about the best (in his opinion) fastballs in each half-decade:

Best Fastballs of 1980-1984

1. Nolan Ryan

2. Goose Gossage

3. Juan Berenguer

4. Mike Scott

5. Joaquin Andujar

6. Floyd Bannister

7. Jack Morris

8. Mario Soto

9. Len Barker

10. Rick Sutcliffe

(I include this list to give you an idea of how to rate Andujar's fastball)

And in a separate article by Rob Neyer on the change-up, he lists (again, his opinion) a best of all time list, in which John Tudor gets and honorable mention.

I hope this info helps, if you need any other info, just post here or email me.

[sq322]

Simply awesome.

Thanks so much sir.

[Bron Y Aur]

No problem at all,sq322. If you want info on anyone else, feel free to ask.

[Bron Y Aur]

Hey sq322,

One minor correction on John Tudor. He was listed as an honorable mention in Rob Neyer's all time change-up list for his late career, which might affect how you rate his change depending on when in his career you plan on using him.

[keegandr]

Could you list Mark Mulder's real pitch selection for me......

He has no curve in the game and every scouting report I read says he has one and a pretty good one.

thanks

[ee]

who threw 1,000 inning or 400 games, which obviously would not include some spot starters and some in the bullpen

1,000 innings? Isn't that a lot? I mean that means Mark Mulder wouldn't even be in the book. So anyone who has less than 5 or so years of experience is left out?

[ee]

Could you list Mark Mulder's real pitch selection for me......

He has no curve in the game and every scouting report I read says he has one and a pretty good one.

I'm not an expert, so if the Neyer/James DOES list him, I'm sure that's a better source. But, from my understanding Mulder is known for his assortment of pitches; he can/has thrown everything. He's always seemed to have the moving fastball, a changeup, and, yes, a curve. Also has interchanged a slider, screwball, and cutter. Earlier in his career he had a pretty good split-fingered fastball. I'm not sure if he still uses the split finger to make his fastball "move".

[keegandr]

Thanks in the game his splitter is his best pitch do you think he is using a good sinking 2 seamer now?

[ee]

Yeah, his fastball is a two-seamer; like a 92-mph. Some nights it cuts, some nights it sinks. Like I said, he does it all. I'd say his top pitches right now are his huge, slow, sweeping curve; the low-90s two-seamer; and probably a changeup and an on-again/off-again heavy sinker. But in the game, I'd probably keep editing him and changing what that #4 and #5 pitch was :lol:

[GoChiefs]

Would this have the pitches that the Texas Rangers staff throws?

Even a few of the pitchers would be nice.

[Bron Y Aur]

First off, keegandr, sorry, Mark Mulder is not listed, but from the few games I have seen him pitch, ee sounds dead on. Also, you can check here, which is from an ESPN search on Mulder that lead me to a Stats Inc. scouting report. This may prove useful for pitchers not listed in this book, or just for added info on ones that are.

GoChiefs, could you list the Rangers pitchers? I'm afraid the only one I know on that staff is Kenny Rogers, and here is his stuff.

Kenny Rogers

6'1" 200-pound lefty

158-114 (W-L), 4.23, 28 saves 1989-2003

1. sinking fastball

2. straight change

3. curve

4. cut fastball

sources: The Scouting Report: 1996, The Scouting Notebook 1999

considering the dates on the sources, it's entirely possible that he has picked up a new pitch, or otherwise changed something in his pitch selection

Also for further reference check here. here,

[krawhitham]

As stylish a hurler as there is, Mulder pretty much can dominate any lineup when he is on, with an assortment that includes a moving low-90s fastball, slider, curve and changeup. Mulder is a master at disguising his delivery, so hitters usually don't know what pitch is on the way until it is too late. Add in his 6-foot-6 frame, and it is easy to see why he can be so overpowering. He has been injury-prone the last couple of seasons, but he bounces back well. Despite missing seven or so starts, Mulder still logged an impressive number of innings last year.

[Bron Y Aur]

GoChiefs, I looked at a Ranger's roster on ESPN's website to figure out who pitches for them, and here are the guys that I could find info on in Neyer and James' book. For guys that I could not find anything on, you might what to check on ESPN, as they have info similar to what I posted links for earlier for Mulder and Rogers. This also might serve as a valuable resource even for pitchers that I can find info on in this book, seeing as 1) any extra info can be valuable, 2) what a pitcher throws can sometimes be hard to define, and some terms are not clearly differentated (ie, some people, sometimes including the pitcher himself, call one pitch several different things, such as Kerry Wood's slider sometimes being called a curve or even a slurve), and 3) it might help to define the action of the pitch instead of the only info being just a generic curve (ie, overhand curve, hard breaking curve, sidearm curve, etc...). Anyway....

I hope this proves useful for you and sorry if some of these players have since been traded or for some other reason are not on the Rangers roster.

Doug Brocail

6'5" 235-pound righty

pitch selection, up to 1997:

1. fastball

2. slider

pitch selection, since 1997:

1. fastball

2. knuckle curve

3. slider

4. change

sources: The Scouting Notebook (1998 and 2000)

Jeff Nelson

6'8" 225-pound righty

1. slider

2. cut fastball

3. fastball

note: Nelson throws sidearm

source: The Scouting Notebook 1998

Chan Ho Park

6'2" 185-pound righty

1. fastball (mid-90's)

2. curve

3. change

source: The Scouting Notebook

Jay Powell

6'4" 225-pound righty

1. sinking fastball (low-90's)

2. cut fastball

source: The Scouting Report:1997

1. sinking fastball (91 - 96)

2. slider

sources: The Scouting Notebook: 1999 & 2000

The cut fastball and a hard breaking slider can be easy to confuse, so I think it would be a judgement call on which one you think Powell has.

John Wasdin

6'2" 196-pound righty

1. fastball (mid-80's)

2. curve

3. slider

source: The Scouting Notebook: 1997

1. fastball (90)

2. slider

3. Change

source: The Scouting Notebook: 1999

Jeff Zimmerman

6'1" 200-pound righty

1. fastball (93-94)

2. slider

note: Fastball has a natural screwball action.

source: The Scouting Notebook: 2000

[Sikkibahm]

Bron Y Aur,

Could you please look up the following pitchers for me?

Bordi, Rich

Brusstar, Waren

Eckersley, Dennis

Frazier, George

Rainey, Chuck

Reuschel, Rick

Ruthven, Dick

Sanderson, Scott

Smith, Lee

Stoddard, Tim

Sutcliffe, Rick

Trout, Steve

I'm working on the 1984 Cubs, and need some help with the pitch selection.

Thanks a bunch,

Sikkibahm

[ee]

mmm 84 cubs.

[Sikkibahm]

I can't wait to finish them up. I finished the hitters today, and am about to start on the pitchers. I couldn't wait to use them, so I played a game today with the 1984 offense and the 2004 Cubs pitching staff :D

[Bron Y Aur]

Sikkibahm, awesome, I look forward to playing with Ryno & Co. The 84 away jerseys have already been done, now hopefully someone will do the home jerseys. For anyone who plans to, you can find a decent pic of the sleeve (cub face) logo here

Anyway, I hope this helps, and if I come across anymore info I will post it here.

Rich Bordi - no info

_____________________________________________________________

Waren Brusstar

6'3" 200-pound righty

28-16, 3.51, 14 saves 1977-1985

1. fastball

2. curve

3. slider

source: The Scouting Report: 1984

_____________________________________________________________

Dennis Eckersley

6'2" 190-pound righty

197-171, 3.50, 390 saves 1975-1998

pitch selection as starter:

1. fastball

2. curve

3. slider

as reliever:

1. fastball

2. slider

note: Eck threw between three-quarters and sidearm

sources: The Scouting Report (1987 and 1990 editions); Tom Seaver's 1989 Scouting Notebook

description: "With a whip-like delivery, he lives on the black, willing to pitch inside but going away when he needs an out. Eckersley uses his fastball on right-handed hitters and goes after lefties with his slider. His reputation and quick work give him marginal calls, making batters swing at pitches just off the plate."

source: Bill Mazeroski's Baseball (1993 Edition)

Given this quote, it might warrant giving Eck better control of his pitches.

Not quite the time we are looking for, but in a Bill James article about the best fastballs of each-half decade, Eck makes it onto the 1975-1979 list.

best fastballs of 1975-1979:

1. Nolan Ryan

2. Goose Gossage

3. Frank Tanana

4. Ron Guidry

5. J.R. Richard

6. Dennis Eckersley

7. Jim Kern

8. Bob Welch

9. Tom Seaver

10. Vida Blue

_____________________________________________________________

George Frazier

6'5" 205-pound righty

35-43, 4.20, 29 saves 1978-1987

1. fastball

2. big, sweeping curve

3. sharp-breaking slider

source: The Scouting Report: 1983

note: Frazier would use three arm angles, mixing up overhand, three-quarters, and sidearm deliveries to keep the hitters off-stride.

_____________________________________________________________

Chuck Rainey (nobody named George Rainey played for the Cubs in 84, whereas Chuck Rainey did until he was traded in July for player-to-be-named-later [2B-OF] Davey Lopes)

5'11" 190-pound righty

43-35, 4.50, 2 saves 1979-1984

1. fastball (83-85)

2. slider

3. curve

source: The Scouting Report: 1983

_____________________________________________________________

Rick Reuschel

6'3" 215-pound righty

214-191, 3.37, 5 saves 1972-1991

1. sinker

2. slider

3. curve

sources: Tom Seaver's 1989 Scouting Notebook; The Scouting Report: 1990

1. fastball

2. cut fastball

3. curve

4. sinker

source: USA Today (06/14/1989, Rod Beaton)

_____________________________________________________________

Dick Ruthven

6'3" 190-pound righty

123-127, 4.14, 1 save 1973-1986

1. fastball

2. curve

source: The Sporting News (09/21/1974, Ray Kelly)

_____________________________________________________________

Scott Sanderson

6'5" 195-pound righty

163-143, 3.84, 5 saves 1978-1996

1. fastball

2. slow curve

3. forkball

4. change

sources: The Scouting Report (1990 and 1992 editions)

_____________________________________________________________

Lee Smith

6'5" 220-pound righty

71-92, 3.03, 478 saves 1980-1997

1. rising (4-seam) fastball

2. slider

3. cut fastball

4. forkball (used as change)

sources: The Scouting Report: 1987 and 1995

_____________________________________________________________

Tim Stoddard

6'7" 230-pound righty

41-35, 3.95, 76 saves 1975-1989

1. fastball

2. slider

source: The Scouting Report: 1987

_____________________________________________________________

Rick Sutcliffe

6'7" 215-pound righty

171-139, 4.08, 6 saves 1976-1994

pitches (1979-1981):

1. fastball

2. curve

3. change

pitches (1982-1991):

1. fastball

2. slider

3. curve

4. change

sources: The Scouting Report (1990 and 1992 editions); ESPN.com chat session (09/10/2003)

quote from ESPN.com chat: "After I won the Rookie of the Year in '79, Tommy Lasorda took me out of the rotation in 1980 and put me in the bullpen ... But I was too inconsistent with my curve ball. I contiued to struggle until 1982, when I [learned?] to throw a slider. My curve ball was too big and a lot of times the umps would miss it. the slider was a tighter breaking ball that I got to work for me and once I did that, no one ever mentioned the bullpen to me again."

_

Sutcliffe is also listed under Bill James' best fastballs of each-half decade.

1980-1984

1. Nolan Ryan

2. Goose Gossage

3. Juan Berenguer

4. Mike Scott

5. Joaquin Andujar

6. Floyd Bannister

7. Jack Morris

8. Mario Soto

9. Len Barker

10. Rick Sutcliffe

____________________________________________________________

Steve Trout

6'4" 195-pound lefty

88-92, 4.18, 4 saves 1978-1989

key pitch: sinker

source: The Scouting Report: 1978

[Sikkibahm]

Thanks a ton! Now I can get started on the pitchers.

Again, thank you,

Sikkibahm

[Yankees763]

Bron Y Aur,

Could you please look up the following pitchers.

Torrez, Mike

Tiant, Luis

Lee, Bill

Wright, Jim

Ripley, Allen

Drago, Dick

Burgmeier, Tom

Campbell, Bill

Hassler, Andy

Stanley, Bob

I am working on the 78 Red Sox team package.

Thanks a bunch

Yankees763

[Bron Y Aur]

Yankees763, here is everything that I could find. Good to see that people are starting to use this now for old-school teams, something I had hoped would happen when I started this thread. On a different note, anyone interested in updated pitches for the heroes and legends in the game? For example, Juan Marichal is all wrong. The game has him throwing sinkers, splitters, fastball and a curve, when in reality he threw a fastball, screwball, slider, change and a curve. I haven't really looked at anyone else, but I'm sure at least some are all screwed up. If anyone is interested I'll post the proper pitches for all of them.

Anyway, on to the '78 BoSox.

Mike Torrez

6'5" 220-pound righty

185-160, 3.96, no saves 1967-1984

1. slider

2. fastball

3. slow curve (developed in 1975)

4. change

sources: Weaver On Strategy (Earl Weaver with Terry Pluto, 1984); TV broadcast of American League East playoff game in 1978)

note: In the 1977 World Series, Torrez was clocked at 94 on his fastball, 89 on his slider

source: Los Angeles Times (Sept. 1978, Mark Purdy)

note: Bucky Dent's homer in 1978 came off a fastball that tailed over the plate.

source: Torrez in Talkin' Baseball: An Oral History of Baseball in the 1970's (Phil Pepe, 1998)

_____________________________________________________________

Luis Tiant (I'm assuming you mean Luis Tiant Jr., as Luis Tiant Sr. was a Negro Leagues pitcher)

6'0" 180-pound righty

229-172, 3.30, 15 saves 1964-1982

1. fastball

2. curve

3. slider

4. change

note: Tiant would pitch from a variety of angles, and sometimes featured a barely legal hesitation pitch.

source: El Tiante (Tiant and Joe Fitzgerald, 1976)

pitches, 1975:

1. fastball

2. slider

3. curve

4. slow curve (as change)

5. palm ball

6. knuckleball

quote: "The Oakland scouting report on him warned he had six pitches -- fastball, slider, curve, change-up curve, palm ball, and knuckler -- all of which he could serve up from the sidearm, three-quarter, or overhand sectors, and points in between, but on this particular afternoon [Game 1 of the 1975 American League Championship Series] his fastball was so lively that he eschewed the upper ranges of virtuosity."

source: Roger Angell in Five Seasons: A Baseball Companion (1977, page 292; a few pages later, Angell provides a virtuoso's catalogue of Tiant's various gyrations on the mound.)

description: "Equipped with a slider, a good curve and his best pitch -- a fastball that really explodes -- that husky Cuban seems a sure bet for big league success."

source: 1965 Official Baseball Almanac (Bill Wise)

qoute by Tony Kubeck: "I batted against him when he was with Cleveland, when he first came up. There were very few that could throw harder, and his ball moved."

source: NBC broadcast of Red Sox-Athletics game on July 22, 1972

_____________________________________________________________

Bill Lee

6'3" 205-pound lefty

119-90, 3.62, 19 saves 1969-1982

1. fastball

2. curve

3. slider

4. change

5. knuckleball

source: The Sporting News (08/21/1971, Larry Claflin)

notes: According to Lee, "I only threw the knuckler on the sidelines. It was a pitch I was saving for when I got older. I threw only two in a major league game, in 1979 I think, with the Expos. To Craig Swan, the pitcher for the Mets. He hit the both for stand up doubles off the wall. After that, I decided to shelve that pitch until I was 60."

Also according to Lee, his pitches were 1. sinker (preferably low and away), 2. overhand curve, 3. screwball (as change), 4. slider, 5. fastball.

source: e-mail message from Richard Lally, Lee's collaborator (10/17/2003)

key pitch, 1969-76: sinker

key pitch, 1976-82: slow curve

quote: "I have a quirk in my body: I can't throw two pitches in a row at the same speed, no matter how hard I try. I also can't throw the ball straight; it either dips or rises."

source: Lee in The Wrong Stuff (Bill Lee with Dick Lally, 1984)

commentary: Lee always considered himself a finesse/contol/groundball pitcher, but after injuring his shoulder during a Red Sox-Yankees brawl in 1976, Lee lost the good velocity on his sinker and was forced to rely on his off-speed pitches even more that he had before.

note: By the mid-70's, Lee was also throwing a slow, lollipop curve that looked almost like, and was describedby Curt Gowdy as, a blooper. That's the pitch Tony Perez hit for a home run in Game 7 of the 1975 World Series.

source: HBO special, The Curse of the Bambino (first aired in Sept. 2003)

Elsewhere in the book, Rob Neyer defined a blooper: "a.k.a. Floater ... high, arching pitch ... In recent years, only Orlando 'El Duque' Hernandez has shown off a version of a blooper. He used the pitch, thrown at approximately fifty miles per hour and rarely for a strike, a few times per game in 2002, and on Aug. 26 he made the highlight reels when Alex Rodriguez took one blooper for a ball, then hit the next one over the fence..."

_____________________________________________________________

Jim Wright - no info

_____________________________________________________________

Allen Ripley - no info

_____________________________________________________________

Dick Drago

6' 1" 190-pound righty

108-117, 3.62, 58 saves 1969-1981

1. sinking fastball

2. rising fastball (four-seamer)

3. slider

4. change

source: The Sporting News (06/14/1969, Joe McGuff)

1. slider

2. change

source: The Sporting News (05/12/1979, Larry Whiteside)

_____________________________________________________________

Tom Burgmeier

5'11" 185-pound lefty

79-55, 3.23, 102 saves 1968-1984

1. sinker

2. slider

3. fastball

sources: Hy Zimmerman in The Sporting News (May, 1965); Sid Bordman in the Kansas City Star (03/07/1969); Peter Gammons in TSN (06/06/1981)

commentary: Burgmeier's fastball was just fair. He could throw a curve, and used it a lot as a minor-league starting pitcher, but threw from a different delivery than his fastball, which telegraphed it to the hitter. When he came to the majors he was a releiver, and largely junked the curve in favor of the slider, which was taught to him by Tom Morgan and Bob Lemon in 1964-65.

Bob Lemon stated numerous times that Burgmeier was 'the best feilding pitcher since Bobby Shantz.' As an older pitcher Burgmeier was suspected of throwing a spitball.

I imagine in the game you could, if you choose to, mimic a spitball with a splitter, circle change or something else that dives and just put a lot of movement on it. Might be something interesting to experiment with.

_____________________________________________________________

Bill Campbell

6'3" 185-pound righty

83-68, 3.54, 126 saves 1973-1987

1. heavy sinker (mid-80's)

2. slider

3. mediocre curve

4. change (occasional)

sources: The Scouting Report (1983 and 1984 editions)

_____________________________________________________________

Andy Hassler

6'5" 220-pound lefty

44-71, 3.83, 29 saves 1971-1985

1. live fastball (live meaning movement)

2. hard slider

sources: The Scouting Report (1983 and 1984 editions)

note: Hassler experimented with a submarine delivery toward the end of his career.

_____________________________________________________________

Bob Stanley

6'4" 210-pound righty

115-97, 3.64, 132 saves 1977-1989

1. sinking fastball

2. slider

3. palmball

note: Stanley supposedly threw spitballs early in his career.

sources: The Scouting Report: 1987; Tom Seaver's 1989 Scouting Notebook; The Sporting News (06/06/1981, Peter Gammons)

[Jim825]

Hi Bron,

I'm starting to work on a '98 New York Yankees roster.

It appears that most of the pitchers that were on the staff are still playing the game, or at least are in MVP2004 rosters (Orlando Hernandez, Andy Pettitte, David Wells, Mike Stanton, Jeff Nelson, Ramiro Mendoza, Mariano Rivera, Darren Holmes, Graeme Lloyd).

Could you post any information you have on:

1. David Cone

2. Hideki Irabu

Thanks,

- Jim

[fuzzone]

curious, whats your 25 man 1998 yankees roster? who's on it?

I think your efforts and willing to research is great!