Conspiracy Theories...do you believe?

[nutts55]

you talk about how the media is covering this whole 9/11 disaster. But look at the course of events around the last election. Your telling me that CBS will cover up 9/11 but will produce falsified documents on Bush military record. Truthfully the media has change since JFK. The media wants these stories. Especially a heavily liberal media. ( If you don't think they are, open your eyes). You also critize people for not having proof other than the goverment and media but yet your arguements are based off a dvd that was produce to be sesationalized to make money. The Michael Moore, supersize me's, and walmart videos that say they are out to curb capitolism are no better than the companies they bash. They are doing what they are doing for a profit. Also realize in order to sell there "documentories" they need to make it so people will watch, shock value.

[Kccitystar]

5 quick facts:

1. A plane hit the Empire State Building in 1945 and it didn't collapse. Many skyscrapers have had floors catch fire, including one where a few floors partially collapsed, but all still survived.

2. Most of the jet fuel burned up in that big ball of fire that came from it, so that couldn't "vaporize" the floors. They even have tape of a firefighter saying he was up to the 78th floor where one plane hit and he was saying he was trying to douse the flames.

3. If a plane hit the White House, wouldn't it make sense that there'd me more than just one big hole? Theres the turbines that could make a huge hole. Also, in 2004, a plane crashed in front of the White House because it hit a freeway light pole and crashed. They say this plane hit three of those and still made it across....yeah....right.

4. This company did a test and tried using their cell phones on planes at different altitudes. They found the success rate of actually getting through is less than 1%.

5.They have people on tape saying that they didn't find a single body from the United 93 crash. And not a single part of the plane was found around.

[HardcoreLegend]

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3. If a plane hit the White House, wouldn't it make sense that there'd me more than just one big hole? Theres the turbines that could make a huge hole. Also, in 2004, a plane crashed in front of the White House because it hit a freeway light pole and crashed. They say this plane hit three of those and still made it across....yeah....right.

Well, a plane didn't hit the White House on 9/11. I'll assume you meant the Pentagon. As for the plane that crashed in front of the White House, it was a Cesna, about 1/8th the size of a commercial airliner. The plane that hit the Pentagon exploded on the surfice of the Pentagon and the concussion of the front of the plane was what tore through the rings.

5.They have people on tape saying that they didn't find a single body from the United 93 crash. And not a single part of the plane was found around.

They found body parts all over the place. I don't know what loons told you that, but I know people that worked that crash site (I live in Ohio) and there were body parts scattered.

[Sean O]

The media wants these stories. Especially a heavily liberal media. ( If you don't think they are, open your eyes).

Grow up, and learn how to make an argument. If you want to be seen as an adult, make statements that back that up.

Stupid people, everywhere. Stupid, brainwashed people.

[Sean O]

5 quick facts:

1. A plane hit the Empire State Building in 1945 and it didn't collapse. Many skyscrapers have had floors catch fire, including one where a few floors partially collapsed, but all still survived.

a. That was a boeing 707, and it hit a building that was designed to equally distribute force through the entirety of the building. The WTC was designed to absorb the force of a Boeing 727 (the primary airplane in use at this point), traveling at normal cruising speed. Instead, it was struck at far more than normal cruising speed by a 767, much larger than a 727.

b. buildings have caught fire, but how many of them were continuously fueled by a cross-country plane flight's-worth of highly flammable jet fuel? And how many were designed with the open-floor plan of the WTC?

2. Most of the jet fuel burned up in that big ball of fire that came from it, so that couldn't "vaporize" the floors. They even have tape of a firefighter saying he was up to the 78th floor where one plane hit and he was saying he was trying to douse the flames.

Most of the jet fuel was not burned up on impact. Plus, if he's saying he was fighting flames, then what's the argument? There were raging flames in and around that area, and this combined with the weak building materials utilized in the WTC construction (and the weak insulation) could not take it.

3. If a plane hit the White House, wouldn't it make sense that there'd me more than just one big hole? Theres the turbines that could make a huge hole. Also, in 2004, a plane crashed in front of the White House because it hit a freeway light pole and crashed. They say this plane hit three of those and still made it across....yeah....right.

You're comparing a cessna to a 767? Come on.

4. This company did a test and tried using their cell phones on planes at different altitudes. They found the success rate of actually getting through is less than 1%.

Well, obviously a conspiracy. I'm not saying there's not some propaganda going on here with the "let's roll" stuff, but that is a long, long way from implying complicity in our government. Plus, there are phones on planes.

5.They have people on tape saying that they didn't find a single body from the United 93 crash. And not a single part of the plane was found around.

So, as per what you said above, a giant explosion wouldn't bring down a building, and so bodies should be ok? Again, how many planes have crashed into the ground at 580 mph loaded with a cross-country's worth of jet fuel with some sort of fight going on in the cockpit?

It's good to question evidence, but you also need to look into the logical answers to the questions. There is BS around 9/11, but nothing on that list is anything that is out there.

[ELDoro]

"They have people on tape saying that they didn't find a single body from the United 93 crash. And not a single part of the plane was found around."

Yes there were hundreds of parts found of this plane. Don't listen to everything you hear......thats just like being brainwashed :wink:

" This company did a test and tried using their cell phones on planes at different altitudes. They found the success rate of actually getting through is less than 1%."

---you have to support your arguement a lot more than with "this company did a test"

[Kccitystar]

hm. I stand corrected.

[UncleMo]

when are we going to move on to area 51?

[D-Unit]

i have one question for the people that believe that stupid 9/11 inside job theory. why the **** would the government kill more than 3,000 of its own people?

and for people who say that the government knew that they were told of an attack, who will believe that such a country (terrorist or not) is seriously considering hijacking airplanes and not landing them (which happened more frequently before 9/11) but crashing them into the largest buildings of one of the biggest cities in the country?

and for people that don't know who is responsible for the 9/11 attacks, osama bin laden took the blame and wore it with a badge of honor (that son of a *****). so there's your proof that the government was not responsible. osama bin laden was. it isn't like the US paid osama to take blame, as well as knowingly training arabs to fly a plane for the purpose of crashing it. if anyone's facts come from michael moore or any other videos or documents, don't tell me. if anyone is being brainwashed, it's the people that believe the nation's biggest tragedy was an inside job. the government lies, they always have and always will, but they are not responsible for forming such an attack on themselves.

[Kccitystar]

i have one question for the people that believe that stupid 9/11 inside job theory. why the [naughty word] would the government kill more than 3,000 of its own people?

and for people who say that the government knew that they were told of an attack, who will believe that such a country (terrorist or not) is seriously considering hijacking airplanes and not landing them (which happened more frequently before 9/11) but crashing them into the largest buildings of one of the biggest cities in the country?

and for people that don't know who is responsible for the 9/11 attacks, osama bin laden took the blame and wore it with a badge of honor (that son of a [naughty word]). so there's your proof that the government was not responsible. osama bin laden was. it isn't like the US paid osama to take blame, as well as knowingly training arabs to fly a plane for the purpose of crashing it. if anyone's facts come from michael moore or any other videos or documents, don't tell me. if anyone is being brainwashed, it's the people that believe the nation's biggest tragedy was an inside job. the government lies, they always have and always will, but they are not responsible for forming such an attack on themselves.

I've posted in a few pages back an US operation titled Operation Northwoods, which were a bunch of false flag operations to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro as part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative, which Kennedy rejected during his tenure in office.

Why did Al-Quaeda take responsibility? Well, they've hated us for a while. Now, if I remember clearly, the TV show Lone Gunmen had a pilot episode similar to the events of 9/11 in which a plane strikes the World Trade Center, however, this is the quote that I'll pick out from the pilot:

The Cold War's over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile against, the arms market's flat. But bring down a fully loaded 727 into the middle of New York City and you'll find a dozen tin-pot dictators all over the world just clamoring to take responsibility, and begging to be smart-bombed

Oh.....the bin laden tape. Which one was it, was it the one where he writes with his right hand, when the FBI description says clearly that he writes with his left, and wears a ring, which is forbidden in islam? The first videos say that days after the attack OBL ("the real osama bin laden") denied his involvement in 9/11, and the US government tried to hide and cover up these tapes because they were supposedly a secret message to other terrorists in this country.

That man drops more tapes than rappers do on the streets, and they drop when the Bush approval ratings plummet....which is why I'm not watching United 93. It's propaganda. Its blatant exploitation of peoples misery, and the movie was made too soon. "The story needs to be told!"...screw that. We know what we were told, the plane was hijacked, once they found out the terrorist that had a "bomb" had a dud, they tried to regain control of the plane, unfortunately it had a sad ending. I could understand if this film was made 10-20 years down the line for our younger generation to know the story, but why throw those events back in our faces again so soon?

It's a shame how Bush can do whatever he wants under the pretext of 9/11. We wouldn't have went into Iraq without 9/11 happening.

[UncleMo]

As the token Christian right winger, I thought United 93 was a left winger movie?

Anyone?

Nice Jeter sig KC.

[D-Unit]

so osama makes tapes to help bush's approval rating? as long as he is alive, nobody likes bush for not already killing him.

EDIT: P.S. KC, the sig is nice.

[Bama]

hmmm...I don't know what to believe.

To me, many of these claims in this video seem juvenille. Also, many of their claims have been proven otherwise. And to suggest the government had this evil plot to destroy the lives of many of its own innocent civilians is appaling.

But at the same time, there are many questions that have been unanswered or diverted, and as we know from past experiences, the government is not transparent. This administration, the Clinton Administration, the Bush Administration, Reagan Administration, Carter Administration, every administration has had their problems with being honest with the American people. To put it simply, you can't trust them. And we know the American government, the most powerful government in the whole world, has the ability and capabilites to do this. People love money, and to say the government would do things for financial gain at the expense of its people is not farfetched. But to do something of this magnitude to force their policies upon the American people, or to go to war based on a grudge (Iraq) is most definately farfetched.

I think the best thing we can do as citizens right now is to be skeptical towards the government and all the conspiracy theories, and to ask questions.

EDIT: Eat your hearts out Barry Bonds and Pat Robertson, I'm a member of the 700 Club!

[tigersfan05]

I believe our government always hides things from us. It's only their job. :wink: We SHOULDN'T know everything that goes on behind the scenes.

I'll firmly say that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented, but I'll say with even more belief that we were not behind it.

Outdated quotes that were later corrected, reckless lies, and suggestive video over audio all put together in one "documentary" by some guy who lives in his mommas basement doesn't do much for me, sorry.

In those documentarys I've seen multiple videos of interviews with people purposely cut and edited to suggest certain things. I've seen some of those full-lenth interviews and they aren't saying what they want you to think they're saying.

All 9/11 theories have been disproven.

[RAM]

now to totally change the subject- well not TOTALLY i guess it is oil related. here's one i heard a few years back that all of us GUYS should read :

http://www.worldandi.com/public/2001/October/sax.html

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030531/fob1.asp

[Dazedcat]

Ok, so at a consistent temperature of 1538 degrees Celsius (2800 Fahrenheit) needed to melt steel, I think these two airplanes did amazing things while bending the laws of physics. You would probably think the initial impact of the planes causing such enormous explosions would burn off a massive amount of jet fuel. Not these planes though........these planes slammed into the TWC buildings causing massive explosions and then continued to burn HOTTER. Great, we can ignore the black smoke pouring out of the buildings (indicating that these were oxygen starved fires, meaning they couldn't burn that hot) and we can also ignore the fact that the second tower hit, the south tower, fell first even though it was hit at an angle causing the vast majority of this miracle jet fuel to blow OUTWARDS into the air. Sure we can ignore lots of stuff if needed.

I think Muslims know how to suspend the laws of physics entirely. I never realized they were that clever. We can also discount the fact that NYC police and firemen repeatedly told the same eyewitness story over and over again.........hearing three quick explosions moments before the towers fell. We can also ignore the film footage from Loose Change which clearly shows explosive detonations along the sides of the towers as they were collapsing onto themselves. We should finally ignore the collapse of TWC7 some hours later which clearly shows the buckeling of the roof right in the middle of the structure consistent with controlled demolitions; and even the news interview with the owner of the entire complex Larry Silverstein who said "we pulled the building" referring to WTC7. Pull is the lingo for demolishing buildings.

Were terrorists on those planes? Yes. Did they pilot them into those buildings? Maybe. Did the TWC buildings pancanke collapse due to jet fuel? Please for the love of God spare me.

Oh and one last thing? Although I don't even care to go there......jumbo jets have crashed into MOUNTAINS and have never "vaporized" as the government claims happened at the Pentagon. But as I said, let's not go there. I'm not a democrat by the way, just so you know. k?

Regards;

[Sean O]

Dazedcat-

You gotta do some research. Not one "expert" has ever said the jet fuel melted the steel, and no one at the WTC said the steel was melted. At the temperature the jet fuel was burning (and considering the amount of fuel on board, a ton of it was burnt up on impact, leaving a whole lot left), the steel was weakened to less than 50% of its original strength.

This, combined with the fire-proofing being damaged by the impact, caused the fall of the towers. Ignore physics all you want, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Bobolini]

Let's play ball! I can't believe this crap get's the most attention on a baseball forum! Come on dudes! Politics don't mix with baseball! That's why I play MVP 2005 to avoid the politics. Let it go gentlemen! Play ball!!!!

[tom-nyy-26]

Hey guys, Ive posted here for some time but only just saw this topic so sorry if i repeat anything.

Basically, im from england, but i love america to death, its like home for me (more than england is); but, i do not like the bush government.

Il watch the video about the 9/11 conspiracy after ive typed this up as it seems interesting.

I dont know if anyone heard the theory that the Bush administration apparantly got the army to blow a hole in one of the levee's in new orleans so the floods would flood more of the black areas than the white populated areas. Im not sure what to believe on this rumour, although it could be plausable (sp :S).

[Kriegz]

I dont know if anyone heard the theory that the Bush administration apparantly got the army to blow a hole in one of the levee's in new orleans so the floods would flood more of the black areas than the white populated areas. Im not sure what to believe on this rumour, although it could be plausable (sp :S).

Did my boy Kanye tell you that one?

[krawhitham]

what about the fact 15 years ago some cars could get 50 mpg, and today the new Civic Hybrid only gets 47.36 mpg

[krawhitham]

Dazedcat-

You gotta do some research. Not one "expert" has ever said the jet fuel melted the steel, and no one at the WTC said the steel was melted. At the temperature the jet fuel was burning (and considering the amount of fuel on board, a ton of it was burnt up on impact, leaving a whole lot left), the steel was weakened to less than 50% of its original strength.

This, combined with the fire-proofing being damaged by the impact, caused the fall of the towers. Ignore physics all you want, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Now back in 1993 when I was running a BBS they were all kinds of rumors about the WTC building being wired for a controlled demolition if needed because of a worse terrorist attack. The rumor back then was that the US wired it incase it was attacked again, and it was so bad the buildings were going to collapse they could "pull" the buildings so they did not fall sideways and kill 10s of thousands of people. They wanted to be able to bring it straight down.

I’m not saying that is what happened all I'm saying is the rumors were out their in the 2nd half of 93 through 94.

[Tom101]

Sean O seems to enjoy backing up his claims with false information. All that have conceded to his logic should be ashamed.

You mentioned the PM article Sean O. I have an article that counters PM's article and proves in the process why the WTC should not have fallen.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/rep...r_mechanics.htm

I find it hard to bealive that a building built many years before another building would be better suited to withstand a plane crash. But hey, all 911 research must be "funny" and "amusing" now, right?

Dazedcat-

You gotta do some research. Not one "expert" has ever said the jet fuel melted the steel, and no one at the WTC said the steel was melted. At the temperature the jet fuel was burning (and considering the amount of fuel on board, a ton of it was burnt up on impact, leaving a whole lot left), the steel was weakened to less than 50% of its original strength.

This, combined with the fire-proofing being damaged by the impact, caused the fall of the towers. Ignore physics all you want, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Then how do you explain the manner of the collapse? Even if the steel that the fire was raging in was weakened, why did the perfectly normal steel at the lower levels of the building fall right along with the collapse and offer no resistance?

One more thing, explain to me this photograph ...

[Dazedcat]

"The core was designed to support the entire weight of the buildings several times over.Far more than a mere "service core", it comprised of 47 steel box columns tied together at each floor by steel plates, similar to the 52" deep spandrel plates that tied the perimeter columns together. The largest of these core columns were 18"x36", with steel walls 4" thick near the base and tapering in thickness toward the top, and was anchored directly to the bedrock."

If the trusses melted which caused the building to fall, then the theory should be that the building upon impact should have collapsed because the core would have impacted backwards. This didn't happen, the building withstood the initial crash. Does anyone honestly believe buildings this tall were held together by steel trusses????

There is no way in hell the WTC buildings were "held up" by steel trusses with 5/8th inch bolts. The photo that Tom101 shows is a demolition blast causing the building to pancake onto itself. These happened all the way down the base of the tower.

If this "blazing infero" was so bad then why did firefighters actually REACH the 78th floor and start battling the blaze? Why did Guiliani order the destroyed steel shipped over to NJ asap and then sold as fast as humanly possible and shipped off to China? They never did a damned semi-normal investigation on what's the largest crime scene ever in the history of the United States.

I don't get into it being Bush's fault, or his cabinet, or the military industrial complex or whomever else. All I know is what I see and read.......and not on 911 conspiracy theory websites either. Respected architects say this is a fiction, the official explanation. Film bears it out too.

Once the truth of why TWC fell finally is realized, all the political nonsense will take care of itself.

Regards;

[jogar84]

As the token Christian right winger, I thought United 93 was a left winger movie?

Anyone?

Nice Jeter sig KC.

The ending was powerful- i think it was some hijacker who said- "Praise be to Allah. Allah is the greatest" And this was no made up script either but actual dialogue taken from the black box that survived the crash. I'm always interested if the filmmakers were going to exploit this like some documentarians do with real life tragedies like 9/11 (Michael Moore). In this case they didn't.