funeral interruptions

[MarkB]

Pffft, that's just crazy talk. Hmm, I wonder if we put Youkilis next to him if he'll someone obtain plate discipline by osmosis. Would that mean god hates plate discipline?

If so, man, Giambi's got the double-whammy.

:lmao: :lmao:

Quote of the year so far. :lol:

[SwinginSoriano]

Pffft, that's just crazy talk. Hmm, I wonder if we put Youkilis next to him if he'll someone obtain plate discipline by osmosis. Would that mean god hates plate discipline?

If so, man, Giambi's got the double-whammy.

Sori and Nick Johnson batted next to eachother all the time, the osmosis theory didn't work. :(

[lautrec]

It's nice to see that we still have a healthy freedom of speech on this left field board.

Mo, you know you gotta carry that cross. It's our honor for following that dude from Galilee.

I love Sean O, and all like him. My heart truly goes out to him. He's on a search, like the many of us. When the Day comes, he won't be able to say he wasn't aware.

Being a Christian does not mean I'm perfect. It certainly points out that I'm far from it, when I veiw the life of the One the faith gets its name. I'm am forgiven, past, present and future of my imperfection, though. That's a tough one to conceive, but that's what I believe.

You all have the same bottom line choice as me, Mo, Sean O, and everyone else.

As for me, I'll take the narrow path.

[awesome]

[Sean O]

I love Sean O, and all like him. My heart truly goes out to him. He's on a search, like the many of us. When the Day comes, he won't be able to say he wasn't aware.

Being a Christian does not mean I'm perfect. It certainly points out that I'm far from it, when I veiw the life of the One the faith gets its name. I'm am forgiven, past, present and future of my imperfection, though. That's a tough one to conceive, but that's what I believe.

You all have the same bottom line choice as me, Mo, Sean O, and everyone else.

As for me, I'll take the narrow path.

Some day, may the good lord see it fit to open my heart and let the hate flow in. I'll hate liberals, I'll hate people who wear different types of fabric together, I'll hate people that eat certain types of meat on certain days, but not on others, and most of all, I'll hate those damn homosexuals and their flashy dress.

Until then, I'm going to keep being nice to all people and not hating any groups, and speak up for the freedoms of the whole rather than the whims of the majority. But some day, maybe I will get that hate in my heart, and I'll be right there with y'all, chanting God Hates Fags.

Seriously, you're a Royals fan and you believe in God. No just and loving god would let the Yankees win 26 times as many championships as KC. It just isn't happening.

[SwinginSoriano]

Not all christians hate people.

Seriously, you're a Royals fan and you believe in God. No just and loving god would let the Yankees win 26 times as many championships as KC. It just isn't happening.

If God exists, frankly God wouldn't give a **** about baseball.

---

Anyway, awesome, what are you inferring with the skeleton picture?

[jhath]

well i dont know what sean o's degree is in, other than i know that he consistently reminds us hes smarter than us but, it def is not in cosmology or physics. he likes to say christians dont use logic, but he doesnt either.... after all, stephen hawking, the once very famous atheist, admitted there had to be a god... albeit hawking didnt exactly turn around and embrace christianity, hes prolly diest or something now, hawking did concede there had to be a god.... logic should tell him to trust the smart guy... as far as sean o's idea of the hate bible... what hes trying to do with the "hate passages" of the bible is like trying to find "freedom passages" in the communist manifesto... unclemo was right... its called the dispensation of law and the dispensation of grace... in case you're not sure... you're living in the dispensation of grace.. otherwise, i still have respect for sean o; hes one of the few people who sees baseball correctly... btw... nice work the other day on the tejada/jeter debate

with all due respect,

-jhath

[Sean O]

well i dont know what sean o's degree is in, other than i know that he consistently reminds us hes smarter than us but, it def is not in cosmology or physics. he likes to say christians dont use logic, but he doesnt either.... after all, stephen hawking, the once very famous atheist, admitted there had to be a god...

Holy crap, one guy said there had to be a god? Well, I'm wrong.

albeit hawking didnt exactly turn around and embrace christianity, hes prolly diest or something now, hawking did concede there had to be a god....

I don't really care if there's a god. If there is, I don't like him. simple as that.

logic should tell him to trust the smart guy...

Wow, that's what you count as logic? First you question my degree, then you say I should trust someone who's not an expert in religion or philosophy. Brilliant.

as far as sean o's idea of the hate bible... what hes trying to do with the "hate passages" of the bible is like trying to find "freedom passages" in the communist manifesto...

Except the "hate passages" "in" "the" "bible" actually "exist."

unclemo was right... its called the dispensation of law and the dispensation of grace... in case you're not sure... you're living in the dispensation of grace.. otherwise, i still have respect for sean o; hes one of the few people who sees baseball correctly... btw... nice work the other day on the tejada/jeter debate

with all due respect,

-jhath

Look, I know enough about christianity, so don't try to make it look like I'm just some child here. Dispensation, or grace, or whatever assorted hoohah aside, the bible contains insane passages which are both immoral and illogical in my oh so humble opinion.

The one thing I didn't bring up in the whole Schmooz debate is, so what? Let's say that his highly dubious claim that dogs catch The Gay from people is true, so what? Who would it possibly hurt that there's a gay dog? Who the hell cares if two people who love each other have sex?

All I'm asking is for people to get out of other peoples' business, especially when it comes to law. Is this too much to ask?

[jhath]

Holy crap, one guy said there had to be a god? Well, I'm wrong.

well actually, i believe stephen hawking is a pretty credible expert on the big bang/cosmology/physics... im sure he has more degrees than you and i have letters in our full names combined... i dunno... maybe you in your infinite wisdom are more of a authority in those matters...

[big shmooz]

SeanO, you state... So, instead of trying to fix the situation, you agree with the bible that the woman should be essentially forced to live with this man? The man is not being punished, and you have no problem with this at all. and I have lopsided morals. You don't punish rape victims, but want to kill two consenting adults. End quote.

I never said that. He is forced to stay with her, not she with him.

Next you state... You've got to be kidding me. One, you're saying it's ok to kill someone based on a moral judgment, rather than letting the state decide. Interesting. Considering your desire for homosexuals to die, I am really frightened to have you out in normal society.

Two, How on earth is anyone supposed to glean all that (questionable, as it is) information from that passage? It's insane. There is the bible, which presents this at face value, and then there's this whole other obscure history behind each individual passage, which again is of questionable accuracy. So the bible is the spark notes version of life?

Crazy End quote.

I am saying that sometimes one can't sit around & do nothing. such as in this case where a man's life was in danger. If you can't understand that, you need help.

1) As far as homosexuals dying for committing the sin that G-D forbids, that is for a Jewish court to decide, not I.

2) You are correct. There is the Talmud (the Oral law) which is the explanation of the Bible that G-D gave to Moses

Many passages in the Bible are indeed not meant literally & the Talmud defines those. For instance, if we Jews were to take the verse in the Bible of, "& you shall circumcise the foreskin of your hearts" literally, no Jew would be alive today to fufill this, since we would all be dead from this heart operation.

Next you state... Same as above, what the bible / torah says at face value and what you are saying are two completely different things. Either the bible can attempt to explain the real situation, which it clearly doesn't, or it has to give the full story. This is why the old testament / torah, as the fundamental basis of religious understanding for the mass of people, is wholly flawed.

Look, if I write a book giving, as I mentioned, a cliff's notes summation of, say, current day life, am I to expect people outside of my personal experience to completely understand where I'm coming from, and the backstories if I don't bother to explain it? Of course not. Hence, flawed, and the teachings taken from the old testament themselves will have to be based on the face value statements made in the text. End quote.

I agree with you. In fact it was given to the Jews alone for a reason. It was not meant to be understood as is. The masses are not meant to be guided by Torah law. For the masses there is the Noachide law. (7 commandments given to Noach)

They are as follows...

Do not murder.

Do not steal.

Do not worship false gods.

Do not be sexually immoral.

Do not eat a limb removed from a live animal.

Do not curse God.

Set up courts and bring offenders to justice.

Next you state... Guess we have a new favorite quote of the thread. Nothing has to make sense!

The fact that god challenges man without any proper reason, or in ways that directly challenge other passages of the text isn't a problem! End quote.

What you are in reality saying is, that it does not make sense to YOU!

Who said G-D challenges man without any reason? Are you privy to G-D's thoughts? Are you G-D? How arrogant that statement you made is!

As far as your point about challenging other passages, this is why we have the Talmud. It explains those passages. Note: I am not referring to any new test contradictions of the Torah. I am a Jew & hence I do not believe the new test.

Next you state...Wow, you are totally missing the boat. Tendencies to commit violent actions are not fundamentally innate in the same way that sexual preference is ingrained in man. For the vast, vast majority, this is due to upbringing and the particular post-birth situation of the human being. The point is, hetero and homosexuals developed naturally, at which point many heterosexuals became afraid of homosexuals and the "homosexual lifestyle." This likely happened because homosexuality would prevent a "normal" life and the benefits that entailed, of a wife and

kids. Thus is born a stigma.

You need to look more into the case studies taken in remote parts of the world to see the real side of nature / nurture. It has nothing to do with the desire to murder or rape, it is exactly as powerful and naturally beneficial as heterosexuality, just with more people wanting to hurt you for no real reason.

Plus, what right do you have to want to keep people from doing what doesn't hurt anyone? This is my main axe to grind with religious people, why can't you let people be? I disagree with people, tons of people, but I will never try to stop anyone from doing what they want to themselves. This leads into why religion is diametrically opposed to the best American government has (had?) to offer, but that's for another time. End quote.

I disagree with that statement completely. I believe people can be nurtured in a particular way or steered away from tendencies through education & dicipline. A person can even change their innate nature however this is very very difficult & takes extreme dicipline. Something most people never even attempt.

As far as what is just the same or not, you are incorrect. In fact case studies can be correct or they can be wrong. But G-D is the creator who has intimate knowledge of His creations & can't be wrong. You remind me of the case where some professors at MIT wanted to show that they had discovered the "secret ingridient" of Coca Cola in their formula. They call up the CEO with the claim they have figured it out. The CEO says, ok, come down, show me your findings & we will see if you are correct. So they come & they show their findings & the CEO says, you made a mistake. This is not it. They protest saying they did all the research. The CEO responds, "I make it". Same here. G-D made us. He knows us better than any research can uncover.

As far as this behavior not hurting anybody, I beg to differ. We are guests in G-D's world. What right do you as a guest have a right to dictate to G-D what rules He sets up in HIS house?

YOU are the interloper here, not He. You actually remind me of the man in a boat who digs a hole under his seat. When the people protest to him about what he is doing, he responds by saying, what right do you have to dictate to me what I do under my seat???

Next you state... PPOR. Post the slightest bit of proof here. Homosexuality has been around at least for the last 6,000 years, but "today" we have homosexual dogs. You are seriously mixing up the causation my friend. End quote.

I will post my proof the day you post yours about homosexuality. I don't even believe man has existed that long. Day 6 of creation was 5,766 years & 7 months & 6 days ago. As I said, we destroy the environement on a spiritual level with sin the very same way we pollute it physically with sins of how we treat the earth on a physical level. G-D said this. The evidence is there by the way the world appears. G-D says if I eat non Kosher food for instance I am contaminating myself. Here we find a clear instance of G-D saying that sin can cause detrimental effects. Also regarding the flood it says the same of the earth being polluted through sin.

Next you state... So, against all logic, you think animals become gay through osmosis? This doesn't make any sense, at all. Because humans murder, is that why animals kill other animals, not because they've been doing it for hundreds and thousands of years?

Did you ever think this is how nature wants it, as a form of population control? End quote.

It is not against all logic. It is against your belief. If you understand the deeper mysteries of the world & how it functions, then it is all quite logical. You are missing that knowledge.

All I can suggest for this is for you to study. (at the proper place for this type of study)

Actually that is correct, because of sin animals kill other animals. In the ideal society before the sin of Adam & Eve, there would not have been animals killing other animals. & when the Messiah comes, indeed this will stop. As Scripture states, "the wolf shall live with the lamb & the leopard with the deer together" etc...

No, I did not consider it since nature is not a control. G-D is. It is like asking, did you consider the reason that perhaps you were locked out of your house is because your door did not like people putting keys in it. Nature has no will of it's own.

Next you state... Wait, so you want to believe in a god who has the mental and reasoning capacity of a four year old? You hit me and I'll hit you back? What a bully. End quote.

No... I believe in a just G-D who deals with man as man deals.

Next you state... I see, and have never seen, any reason to worship a hateful monster, like I mentioned above. Say what you will, but the torah / bible is chock full of the monster killing the innocent for no reason but on His Crazy Whim.

Tell you what, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep treating everyone equally, gay or straight, black or white, jewish, christian or atheist. I'm not going to hate entire groups of people because some dusty old book told me to, and where-ever possible, I'm going to be nice to everyone. I won't judge people or force them into a way of life they don't like, and I'm going to live by logic.

I don't want to hate the innocent, or worship a being that allows innocent children and adults to suffer, and so I can never be religious. End quote.

I totally disagree with your observations. You have put your own slant on the Scriptures, something the Scriptures never meant to imply.

What you do with your own life is your own choice. G-D willed it so. But G-D also deals with everybody in the capacity they dealt.

On a personal note here, I do not hate most "groups" whether I agree with their viewpoint or not.

The only people I hate are those I am commanded to hate. Which is something very rare. I also believe in treating people equally. Yes, even homosexuals. Remember, being a homosexual is not a sin, it is the practice of homosexual behavior that is. As is the practice of heterosexual sex with somebody who is not your wife. Especially when it is somebody else's.

As far as your point about hating the innocent... I do not hate the innocent either. & moreso, G-D does not hate the innocent. As far as the innocent suffering this is one of the oldest questions in existance & is discussed in the book of Job whose author is Rabbi Moses. When you know all of G-D's calculations as to why He does everything he does, then you are on the level of being able to judge G-D. Till then, you are nobody. As G-D said to Job... "where were you when I set the world into motion?". (that is a paraphrase of the verse & not a direct quote.)

[big shmooz]

SeanO... you state... The one thing I didn't bring up in the whole Schmooz debate is, so what? Let's say that his highly dubious claim that dogs catch The Gay from people is true, so what? Who would it possibly hurt that there's a gay dog? Who the hell cares if two people who love each other have sex? End quote.

Again you miss the point. The dog becoming gay is not the point. That is only a symptom. The problem is in what caused the symptom to happen.

As far as who it would hurt, read the above post. In fact it hurts everybody.

I should add that I consider myself at fault for being drawn into this long debate. However at the same time as I stated earlier, I can't stand by & have the Torah of G-D maligned. I must stand up for G-D's honor.

P.S. Read page 4 of this thread for my response to your long post.

[lautrec]

Some day, may the good lord see it fit to open my heart and let the hate flow in. I'll hate liberals, I'll hate people who wear different types of fabric together, I'll hate people that eat certain types of meat on certain days, but not on others, and most of all, I'll hate those damn homosexuals and their flashy dress.

Until then, I'm going to keep being nice to all people and not hating any groups, and speak up for the freedoms of the whole rather than the whims of the majority. But some day, maybe I will get that hate in my heart, and I'll be right there with y'all, chanting God Hates [naughty word].

Seriously, you're a Royals fan and you believe in God. No just and loving god would let the Yankees win 26 times as many championships as KC. It just isn't happening.

Yep, Sean, you've got me here. From my post, you gleaned that I hate liberals, homosexuals, ppl who eat meat on certain days, and ppl who wear different fabrics together.

You've arrived at the decision that I go around chanting hate speech.

Then, to top it off, you attack me for liking a baseball team, albeit one that is particularly bad. Amazing.

I'm going to assume this is complete jest, and you're trying to rouse anger or something like that. Any person with a logical mind could not even dream up the stuff you spewed there and really be serious. If you are serious, do you really believe that attacking someone maliciously and without any evidence is credible?

Mr. Sean O, when I said I love ppl like you, I really MEANT it. Christ commanded us to love all, including those who may be enemies.

If you want to attack me, that's fine. I accept that as a Christian. The book you loathe so much, has warned us of this. All I'm saying, is it makes you look incredibly short-sighted and narrow minded. I don't know for sure, but you seem filled with hate and venom. I am truly sorry (no jest, no joke) you have this kind of life.

I wish you well.

[skte1ement]

Wow, this is a very intersting topic and I tried to read as much as possible. As the reading continued I started to skim so if I misrepresent any information I apologize before hand.

I have grown up in a family where my dad grew up Jewish and my mom grew up Catholic. It has lead me to a unique view point on religion. For people to read the bible and follow it is great. In my opinion if something like the bible provides a support for your life and moral guidlines that is a important and very helpful assest.

My question is how is it that people literally interpret the bible and its meanings. The religion you take on for yourself is most likely the one you are raised on or exposed to. What exactly is the difference between a buddhist, christian, morman? What makes one of these religions right and one of them wrong? How is it that a christian will be saved becasue he takes on the right religion when a man in the same situation as him turns to Buddhism and will not be saved? Where is the logic in this? If one religion is definantly right then why is it that god must rely on force and human influence to convert people to the true religion? Where is the logic in this?! How can this be true. I believe in karma, do good and good will come to you.

Many relegions exist and my viewpoint of the whole situation is as long as you live a good life then god will accept you.

The point that bothers me the most about some stout religious people is the judgement that they hand out. Or as someone said the word they are spreading from the judge. In my opinion do not judge other people, at times this can infuriate me.

I probably have rambled on, its late I have had a long day and i just had to add my thoughts on this subject. I respect everyones opinion on this website, I just do not think forcing my own opingion on other people is the right thing...for anybody.

That is why I am asking, read my post and think about it, but I am not telling you how to life your life. I am not talking about punishments and things to fear if you do not life your life with the same views as mine. So why should you tell other people how to live theres?

[big shmooz]

skte1ement. It's not as simple as that. The question arises, am I my brothers keeper or not.

Another point to ponder is, if your house is on fire & I see it, should I just walk by & say, after all, it's his house. Not mine. What right do I have to mix in?

A third point to ponder is something I mentioned in a previous post. If I am in a boat with you (the world is the boat in this analogy) & you punch a hole in it under your seat, should I shut up because you are doing it under your seat?

The fourth point (& most important one of all) to ponder is... What about G-D? Where are His rights in all this? After all.. He created the world & so it belongs to Him. Doesn't He get a say in His own house?

Please consider what I am saying here. I think this is the key to your questions/comments.

[Kccitystar]

What good is the bible if there were no dinosaurs mentioned in it, however dinosaurs existed in real life?

-KC

(i was joking)

[big shmooz]

What good is the bible if there were no dinosaurs mentioned in it, however dinosaurs existed in real life?

-KC

(i was joking)

I actually have the answer to that. The dino's ARE in fact mentioned. The Torah calls them birds. In fact, before the flood everything was huge. Man was much taller, & so were the animals. Then after the flood they shrunk to the sizes we have today. (just as man shrunk)

[UncleMo]

also david mentions them in psalms, not that it matters much. I think it is the book of psalms.

[seanzarelli]

We all commit certain acts in our lives of an unsavory nature. Some bad, some worse, some unspeakable. Sometimes we suffer in silence, sometimes we seek redemption. He's got what he wanted, but in attaining salvation there's a price that must be paid. One must give up a bit of one's self. The road, or the end of the road as it is, may not be quite as, not quite what you expect. The glowing light at the end of the tunnel may not be the beacon of righteousness that you envisioned. It may be some horribly disfigured funhouse reflection of your own inner dreams.

[UncleMo]

Song lyrics? )

[seanzarelli]

Song lyrics? )

Nope =) lol

[UncleMo]

Sorry, sounded to poetic.

[SwinginSoriano]

Did anyone ever hear the expression "Why did God not email the ten commandments to Moses?"

Duh. Technology/Science didn't exist. That's a good reason for the omission of dinosaurs from the bible.

[big shmooz]

Did anyone ever hear the expression "Why did God not email the ten commandments to Moses?"

Duh. Technology/Science didn't exist. That's a good reason for the omission of dinosaurs from the bible.

I admit it, I don't get it. Dino's are in fact mentioned. (birds)

[UncleMo]

Enoch was 365 years old too, if I remember correctly. That counts. And have you seen "mrmariner"?

[seanzarelli]

Sorry, sounded to poetic.

Not a problem Mo, just found it on a quote website and thought it sounded pretty good, and the way I interpreted it, made it seem like it went with what people were discussing in this thread.