funeral interruptions

[jhath]

its also mentioned in job... you have to keep in mind that the bible as we know it is not actually in chronological order.... job was actually one of the earlier guys....

[big shmooz]

its also mentioned in job... you have to keep in mind that the bible as we know it is not actually in chronological order.... job was actually one of the earlier guys....

That's correct. Moses authored the book of Job.

[Sean O]

SeanO... you state... The one thing I didn't bring up in the whole Schmooz debate is, so what? Let's say that his highly dubious claim that dogs catch The Gay from people is true, so what? Who would it possibly hurt that there's a gay dog? Who the hell cares if two people who love each other have sex? End quote.

Again you miss the point. The dog becoming gay is not the point. That is only a symptom. The problem is in what caused the symptom to happen.

As far as who it would hurt, read the above post. In fact it hurts everybody.

Just saying something doesn't make it true. How does a dog being gay hurt you?

I can say I'm the King of England, but it doesn't make it so. I want a reason why a dog being gay makes your life worse. Not in "oh god I'm so offended" terms, I mean, are your taxes higher? Does it take longer for you to get to work? How?

[big shmooz]

Just saying something doesn't make it true. How does a dog being gay hurt you?

I can say I'm the King of England, but it doesn't make it so. I want a reason why a dog being gay makes your life worse. Not in "oh god I'm so offended" terms, I mean, are your taxes higher? Does it take longer for you to get to work? How?

Read my last post on page 4. It will explain.

[Sean O]

It's pointless to continue arguing with hate mongers. I just hope one day you, KKK members and all the other animals of the world get what's coming to them.

I just can't fathom living in a world where I'm forced to hate the innocent, and ignore everything that is logical. If you look up the DSM IV, you have virtually every sign of mental disease possible, including a tendency towards violence and a complete lack of sympathy towards your hate.

I can only hope you don't kill someone while you're here. Certainly no good will come of your existence.

nuf ced.

[big shmooz]

I just can't fathom living in a world where I'm forced to hate the innocent, and ignore everything that is logical.

Neither can I. We just see who is innocent & what is logical, completely different than each other.

[lautrec]

It's pointless to continue arguing with hate mongers. I just hope one day you, KKK members and all the other animals of the world get what's coming to them.

I just can't fathom living in a world where I'm forced to hate the innocent, and ignore everything that is logical. If you look up the DSM IV, you have virtually every sign of mental disease possible, including a tendency towards violence and a complete lack of sympathy towards your hate.

I can only hope you don't kill someone while you're here. Certainly no good will come of your existence.

nuf ced.

Sean, I don't relish pointing out the obvious, but you are simply not doing a very good job of trying to accuse others of hate when you sound so very hateful by this statement.

I don't understand how you can continue to call every person who is a follower of Christianity a hatemonger when that's not only illogical, it's simply predjudiced. <sp?>

It's very bad form to assign your specific thoughts/beliefs on every member of a particular faith, just because you have no solid arguments.

There is more and more a misconception that Christians are hate-filled people as a whole. I admit, as with any group of people, there are haters in the Christian faith. But that applies to ALL people, ALL groups. Why? Because people are flawed, and human in their nature. They were born with sin, continue to sin, and are not perfect. This is an explanation, not an excuse.

I will admit to you, Sean, that there are groups of people I struggle to think about objectively. However, I don't publicly decry them for their beliefs, but if asked, I will submit my opinions. But the key is, it's NOT the person(s) themselves, it's their actions that I question.

Sean, I belive there are right and wrong actions in this world. I do NOT believe that "if it feels good, do it". I am not saying that you believe that or not. I'm stating MY beliefs. Since I believe in right and wrong, I must have a set of values, or a baseline of what is good, and what is bad. I choose to believe Jesus Christ, and the Bible. It's simply my choice. I can no more force you or anyone else to believe the same.

Can I judge you? ABSOLUTELY NOT! I am not your judge. I personally believe that God is judge of us all. Can I have an opinion about your behavior? Yes, as you have an opinion about mine. Is it healthy for me or any Christian to go around judging the behaviors of others? Not particularly, as this results in people assuming things about all Christians, and sometimes it leads to wars and death, etc. This is a bad, albeit typical human response to someone who judeges the actions of another.

If you'll take the time to read this, and reflect on the tone, you'll see I'm not trying to belittle you or act superior to you in any way. We see things differently.

You are however, very wrong to assume that I'm a hate monger, because that is not even close to the truth.

I wish you well.

[jhath]

sean-

for real? whos the hater here? if you think its us, then you are infact completely illogical... you are the one comparing us to KKK members and animals... no one is hatin on you sean, you're the one calling the christians all these names... we arent condemning you or hoping "you get whats coming to you" in fact... i hope you see the light and dont get whats coming to you... i dont want ANYONE to get that... and finally, who is the judgemental one here? you are the one saying no good can come of our lives... sorry bro, but thats harsh... crazy harsh, and crazy judgemental... in fact, hypocritical

[big shmooz]

What I find odd is, I am the one he compared to a KKK member. I am not a Christian. I am a Jew. I have made that clear. I also wish no ill to SeanO. But I will state again, G-D's honor is what is foremost here. He is the creator & we are guests in His house. That is the real bottom line to all this.

[fred13]

I have to sit on the fence for this topic. I think Big Schmooz has a point on the homosexuality thing. The bible states that it is wrong because sex was not for pleasure, it was for the sole purpose of reproduction and it is impossible for 2 men to conceive a child. However, I agree with Sean O that some Christians can come off overbearing at times. I personally am Zoroastrian, (which is why I take offense to Sean O mentioning that an Egyptian is Persian when in fact that is untrue), but I once had a devout Christian come to me and say "You should convert, your life would be so much better if you were christian." I put quotations because that is word for word, what was said. As a Zoroastrian priest, I have had the oppotunity to read many scriptures, of my religion and others, and have come to terms with the fact that no one can interperet what was meant that long ago. After all, weren't all scriptures written by man ON BEHALF of god. Lastly, I agree with Big Schmooz on the fact that one should not stand by whilst another is being abused. Action must be taken to whatever extent neccissary, which is also why I beleive in capital punishment. Thats all I have to say for now.

[AstroEric]

Which of the characters in Moby Dick was Zoroastrian?

I think it's funny that this thread, partially about a guy whose name has five letters and starts with a "Je" doesn't get locked despite extremely high religious tension, but another thread about a five-lettered "Je" got locked because of discussion of a lack of defensive prowess.

--Eric

[UncleMo]

SeanO, you call me an animal, and now I have no respect for you.

You assume I have hate and murder in my heart, and you don't know I'm the exact opposite. I have no respect for you. At all.

[UncleMo]

I think it's funny that this thread, partially about a guy whose name has five letters and starts with a "Je" doesn't get locked despite extremely high religious tension, but another thread about a five-lettered "Je" got locked because of discussion of a lack of defensive prowess.

--Eric

Why do I not get this?

Edit:nevermind, I'm slow. "JESUS". Now to find my brain....

[jhath]

it is crazy eric... i too am surprised it hasnt been locked... have carter and markb been away???

[UncleMo]

MarkB is troubled by aliens taking over his PC, literally. He has print screens to prove it.

[MarkB]

Don't worry, I'm watching.

The reason I haven't locked the thread is because it is a good debate. I don't believe anyone that's involved in the discussion here really wishes harm on anyone they're debating with and it's not descended to a childish "OMGWTF YOUR SO LAME LOL!!111" argument, which, quite frankly, I wouldn't expect at all from anyone who's posted in the thread. So, as long as it stays civil, there's no reason to lock it.

Although there are quite a few very differing opinions, everyone has been making their point in a concise manner, not resorting to flat-out insults and it's been generally respectful. Hey, if no-one debated, life would be pretty boring, don't you think?

Now, if another staff member feels differently and decides to lock the thread, that's their choice. Above is simply my opinion and the reason why I'm not locking the thread. Now, if it descends into a torrent of abuse, then bring on the locking, but I'm hoping you guys won't stoop to that level. Honestly, I'd expect better from the people who've posted already.

Also, thanks for the (non)vote of confidence, jhath.

[JoeRudi26]

I agree with Mark. Although I prefer to 'stay out' of this thread, it's been quite a read.

Please continue.

[skte1ement]

its sad to see people losing respect for each other over this thread and the differing views of the people discussing it. i hope somehow we can avoid generalizing people because of their views. it is almost as if because of certain beliefs people are being stereotyped.

this thread is about personal beliefs so of course people will say what is on their mind. i think taking this as a confrontation is a little extreme. people all over the world have different views, what should be taught and learned are not a set of views/code to live your life based on but acceptance for other people and their beliefs.

[jhath]

:D no prob markb.... just being honest... although, i do find it ironic that fuzz continually calls the two of you out on it and well... no snide remark is made when he does it.... at any rate, i do understand you have a difficult job and i respect your authority... i too once was a moderator... i led a gaming clan for awhile... i understand its a lot of work and there will never be a consensus on how things are run.... so i didnt intend for it to be a disrespectful remark and im sorry if it appeared that way... but, thankfully, y4l lets me vent to him on a regular basis on this subject without too much consequence... hes amazing.. :D

[MarkB]

no prob markb.... just being honest... although, i do find it ironic that fuzz continually calls the two of you out on it and well... no snide remark is made when he does it.... at any rate, i do understand you have a difficult job and i respect your authority... i too once was a moderator... i led a gaming clan for awhile... i understand its a lot of work and there will never be a consensus on how things are run.... so i didnt intend for it to be a disrespectful remark and im sorry if it appeared that way... but, thankfully, y4l lets me vent to him on a regular basis on this subject without too much consequence... hes amazing..

Well, honesty is the best policy.

I didn't take it as a mark of disrespect at all, just noted your opinion on the matter. You're entitled to your opinion in the same way I am and everyone else is.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

[big shmooz]

Why do I not get this?

Edit:nevermind, I'm slow. "JESUS". Now to find my brain....

Heh heh... I didn't get it either till you told me. I was thinking he meant Jewish, but that's six letters. At first I thought he meant Jew, but that's three letters.

Anyway, it seems SeanO has bowed out of this discussion. I bear him no illwill. I just think he is mistaken in his viewpoint.

[fred13]

Which of the characters in Moby [naughty word] was Zoroastrian?

FROM SPARK NOTES:

Fedallah - A strange, “oriental†old Parsee (Persian fire-worshipper) whom Ahab has brought on board unbeknownst to most of the crew. Fedallah has a very striking appearance: around his head is a turban made from his own hair, and he wears a black Chinese jacket and pants. He is an almost supernaturally skilled hunter and also serves as a prophet to Ahab. Fedallah keeps his distance from the rest of the crew, who for their part view him with unease.

Note: A mistake in the passage is that it is not Parsee, it is Parsi, and a Parsi is a Zoroatrian person from India where we migrated after the Islams forced us out centuries ago. The Zoroastrians living still in Persia (what is now Iran) are simply that, Zoroastrian

[lautrec]

I have to sit on the fence for this topic. I think Big Schmooz has a point on the homosexuality thing. The bible states that it is wrong because sex was not for pleasure, it was for the sole purpose of reproduction and it is impossible for 2 men to conceive a child. However, I agree with Sean O that some Christians can come off overbearing at times. I personally am Zoroastrian, (which is why I take offense to Sean O mentioning that an Egyptian is Persian when in fact that is untrue), but I once had a devout Christian come to me and say "You should convert, your life would be so much better if you were christian." I put quotations because that is word for word, what was said. As a Zoroastrian priest, I have had the oppotunity to read many scriptures, of my religion and others, and have come to terms with the fact that no one can interperet what was meant that long ago. After all, weren't all scriptures written by man ON BEHALF of god. Lastly, I agree with Big Schmooz on the fact that one should not stand by whilst another is being abused. Action must be taken to whatever extent neccissary, which is also why I beleive in capital punishment. Thats all I have to say for now.

Fred13,,

I don't see that you are sitting on the fence with our comments. I think you made concise and clear statements, and expressed a wonderfully honest opinion.

I am a Christian, and follower of Jesus, who I consider to be God. You and I may disagree on some or many points, however, I RESPECT your thoughts and welcome your comments.

I have enjoyed reading all the "curteous" and "well thought out" posts in this thread thus far, and it's nice to discuss these topics without feeling the need to yell, belittle, scream, rant, etc. Sean so far has been the exception.

Because I believe what I believe, many of us will see things very differently, and in turn, we will most decidedly believe that the other is mistaken. My beliefs, taught by the Rabai <sp?> Jesus, command me to love everyone. This, I try to do. I'm not always successful, but it is something I try to do.

I wish all in here well.