Mariners please!!

[kinghernandez]

It's kinda funny to look how far from the original topics the forums go to. This one went from an overlay mod request to a full out unlucky team discussion. Anyway, I'll keep it rollin by saying to chicubsfan09 a world series that long ago is bad but the Mariners have never even made it to the World Seires since they debuted back with the Blue Jays. Once Randy Johnson left it seems as if they can't get a good starter. Washburn was supposed to be the savior this year but again, like Guardado the Mariners curse strikes everyone, no exceptions.

[kevattac]

i dunno about beltre and roids, he is pretty much physically the same player as he was 2 years ago. I think he was just more motivated because his contract was up in the air. He got in a rythem and stayed in it. Last year he tried to do too much, same with this year until he was put in the 2 hole. Now he is under less pressure hitting in front of Lopez.

The intriguing thing I find with the Mariners rotation is that there is no legit number 1 starter. Moyer is not a number 1, and Felix is not one yet. Every single pitcher is about #2 or 3 quality right now, making the Mariners one of the most balanced rotations in the majors.

[kinghernandez]

The thing about the Mariners is that every single pitcher in the bullpen is a no-namer. If you asked someone that is not an M's fan to name one person they might get Guardado (might as well be a no-namer). Although they aren't bad they need someone to pitch well in long relief, Julio Mateo has got to be the worst option I've seen in a long time.

[The_Jerk]

J.J. Putz, Rafael Soriano, Julio Mateo, Eddie Guardado, hmmm... I know sherril, but not the first name, and I think the anahiem guy Jake woods is there, but I thought he was a starter, so maybe he's your long guy. Well I got 6, I figure thats pretty good for a non-Mariner fan who only sees them play maybe four or five times a year.

By the way, what ever happened to that guy Ryan Anderson. He was supposed to be the next Randy Johnson becuase he was a giant and he threw just as hard.

Also, is Naggeotte (sp?) with the team now, or is he still wasting away in the minors?

[kinghernandez]

Nageotte came up for a game, gave up a 3 run bomb in an inning and went back down. George Sherrill, Jake Woods (he doesn't pitch often), I think that's it. Little Unit Ryan Anderson had been hurt in every season he played so they finally got sick of waiting and cut him, same story for Bobby Madrisch and Bucky Jacobson. I was gald to see Hernandez finally have a game yesterday against the Twins and Ichiro is really silencing the critics saying that he couldn't produce when he slumped the first week of the season.

Sean Green is the last pitcher in the pen, just remembered.

[The_Jerk]

It was longer than the first week, more like the first 3 weeks. And I don't remmeber hearing critics slamming him, most of what I heard was people saying it was only a matter of time before he started hitting again.

[kinghernandez]

I'm getting really sick of this team's lack of pitching, go out and get a solid reliever or starter. Every time they get out there and score some runs they can't finish because they have pitchers who either walk (seems to be Sherrill's job to come in and walk the left-handed bat right now) or hang pitches right over the plate. I can't even remember how many homeruns have been given up with two strikes on the hitter. I guess I'm done now :rant:

In case you don't know what this is about Rafael Soriano gave up a grand slam to Cuddyer to relinquish a 9-5 lead against Minnesota.

[hunteroo2]

I'm pretty sure a lot of the problem is Hargrove, the guy's a frickin moron. I knew Beltre would flop the second they signed him, I didnt think he'd flop this bad, but still..and Sexson just confuses me. At least we have Lopez, Betancourt, Clement soonish I hope, Snelling if he wasnt made out of glass, Adam Jones, Felix, and...and...umm...*cries* :cry: :cry: :cry:

[thr33niL]

In case you don't know what this is about Rafael Soriano gave up a grand slam to Cuddyer to relinquish a 9-5 lead against Minnesota.

...And Jurrasic Carl just won it with a monster walk-off shot in the 10th!

[thr33niL]

Hmmm.. where to start? :?

Well that Freddy Garcia was a horrible trade.

The Freddy deal to Chicago has turned out to be a bad one. At the time it looked like a steal for the Ms. Freddy was going to leave at the end of the year anyway and at the time, Olivo was looked at as a catcher with all the tools to be a star. Reed was a blue-chipper that was projected as a Mark Kotsay type talent. He has struggled this year but still has time especially since he is a stellar defensive CFer. Olivo just flat washed out as a Mariner. Guy was in his own head and couldn't hit or block a ball to save his life while he was here. Mike Morse is a solid bench bat with some defensive woes. Like I said, when the deal when down, Mariner fans were happy with the return.

As was the Jeff Cirillo investment. As was the Thornton for Borchard deal, especially since they gave Borchard away on waivers.

Cirillo was a disaster! No two ways about it. He is a piece of crap to everyone in the NW. The Thornton/Borchard swap was no big deal. Thornton was about to be DFAed anyway. I was a little confused as to why they then DFAed Borchard after only 9 ABs. He has hit a little in Florida but last I heard, he is back around the Mendoza line once again. Oh well.

. And Johjima is a waste of money. And Betancourt should not be their starting shortstop, they just need a bridge veteran to either Garciaparra or Tuisasosopo (sp?)

You're WAY off here.

Johjima has been the most productive catcher the M's have had in nearly 10 years. He is solid behind the plate and pretty good with the bat seeming how he is just learning the pitchers.

As far as Betancourt is concerned.. He IS the Mariners SS of the future. He is one of the most talented defensive shortstops in the Majors so anything you get offensively is a bonus. That bonus is to the tune of a .285 AVG so far this year. He was rushed through the minors last year after defecting from Cuba and a long layoff from playing any sort of competetive baseball. He is talented as all hell and will only get better.

Garciaparra is improving but nothing better than a C level prospect. Tui is a horrible fielding SS and will be moved either to 3B or the OF by next year. The only guy that has a chance to unseat YuBet at short is Asdrubal Cabrera in AAA. He is the best SS in the Mariners system and only 20 years old.

Considering how few injuries the M's have every season, Im surprised they can never put together a good team. And considering how many prospects they were supposed to be loaded with, we certainly haven't seen any of them make it to the majors, much less contribute.

Some of the M's progression has been halted by injury, actually. Not on the big club, but throughout the farm system. Specifically pitchers. Its been an epidemic and if I were a young pitcher, I wouldnt be signing with the Mariners anytime soon. 8O

Why would they spend their money on a veteran catcher who will be replaced in a year or two by either Ryan Christiansen, Guillermo Quiroz or Jeff Clement, when thy could have spent their money on some pitching. It's not like Johjima is going to single handedly make them a contending team.

Because Clement is the only viable "bank on it" improvemnet over Joh... and that is only on the offensive side.

Christiansen was a bust and released last year. Quiroz was a waiver claim from Toronto that is splitting time in AAA (doing well though). Rob Johnson is having his share of troubles adapting to AAA both hitting and catching. As we speak, Clement is on the DL and, defensively, needs to be in the minors through 2007 if he wants to be a catcher in the bigs. His bat is ML ready right now but they still want him to work on his catching.

So ya see, Johjima was actually a great signing for the Mariners.

[kinghernandez]

thr33niL, that's how it's done. The thing is we can try as hard as we can to make them look good on paper but they are having a hard time puting good pitching with hitting. I think that it will be a little while before they field another team that can make a playoff run, when the can spend money once Beltre is gone. The problem is how much money he takes. I bet by salary he is the most underachieving player in the league. Still gotta love the M's though. Just cause they start losing you can't give up faith.