Rhino Points

[Mav3rek]

I'm just curious as to what exactly rhino points are in OEdit. I can export them to a txt file, and it looks like it comes up with a list of verticies, but when I cross reference those with the wall.dat file none of them match up...

anyone have an idea as to what these are?

[ChicagoCubs720]

I'm just curious as to what exactly rhino points are in OEdit. I can export them to a txt file, and it looks like it comes up with a list of verticies, but when I cross reference those with the wall.dat file none of them match up...

anyone have an idea as to what these are?

It sounds like you're on to something! This could make wall.dat editing extremely easy. If nobody here has any idea on what this is exactly, PM me and I'll send you the creator of O-Edit's email address. He hid it from the public a long time ago because he was getting spammed like crazy. If you promise him not to spam, I'm sure he'd be more than happy to help you.

[Mav3rek]

mos def, i'll give it a few days to see if anyone randomly posts in here, but if not then i'll hit you up for that email. I'm almost positive though that someone on here knows what they do/are, i did a search and found it mentioned a few times, but never anything specific to what they are.

[ChicagoCubs720]

mos def, i'll give it a few days to see if anyone randomly posts in here, but if not then i'll hit you up for that email. I'm almost positive though that someone on here knows what they do/are, i did a search and found it mentioned a few times, but never anything specific to what they are.

sounds good

+1 for using the search function. other members, take note.

[Sean O]

Paging Mr. W, Mr. paulw. He's the only one I know of who actually got rhino points working for him, and apparently it ended up quite useful in Ebbets. He was able to extract parts from other files as rhino points, and then import them into new parts.

I think he took my aborted version of Ebbets Field and took the functional parts from it for his version, just enough to make it a little more Ebbets-y. Of course, I could just be making this up, as paul / hyman are more than capable enough of fixing their own parks.

+1 to ccubs for offering to help even when he didn't directly know the answer.

[Mav3rek]

I'm still just trying to figure everything with OEdit out. So I figured Olympic stadium would be a good stadium to start messing with walls b/c the outfield walls are all the same height, so I figured that would make the wall.dat editing that much easier. So in OEdit I went to File>Export>Rhino Points File and named the file center and saved it to my desktop. I chose part 169 as the one to export rhino points on b/c it is the centerfield wall in Olypic Stadium. What I got was a text file that I can open in notepad that has 3 columns of numbers in it. I'm assuming these refer to X,Y,Z coordinates respectively. The problem is that the numbers I have for the X column are all negative 4 digit decimals (For example -3983.760000) and the main problem with that is that in the wall.dat file there are no negative 4 digit decimals in the X column. So I'm not sure how this matches up with the wall.dat file, but it would seem that it logically would because I counted 67 "blue dots", and there are 67 lines of x,y,z coordinates in the .txt file.

[Sean O]

First off, start with one of the AA or AAA stadiums that have a symmetrical field, olympic stadium is far too difficult to start on. Second, there is no direct correlation between the blue dots and what you'll find in wall.dat. What you should do is select all of the wall units themselves, then look into wall.dat (which you open with microsoft word, not notepad, so it's in columns), and find the points that closely resemble it.

Do whatever you want, but jumping right into editing wall.dat might be getting ahead of yourself a little bit. I'd make sure I had all the basics done before doing something that's only been done on a handful of parks by just 2 or 3 people.

[AstroEric]

+1 to SeanO just for being SeanO.

So editing the wall is hard? I've been thinking about trying to make the wall of the Crawford Boxes non-run-throughable.

--Eric

[Sean O]

Eh, it's more frustrating (or infuriating, Yankee Stadium I'm looking at you) than difficult. Notepad is a necessity with this, because you have the wall.dat open in Word, and the walls selected in oedit, then you just need to mark down the overlap between the two.

So, a hypothetical park. The three walls you need are in parts 212, 200 and 184, so you check those off so they're greyed out but still visible. You zoom in on what appear to be bends in the wall individually, and write down the results. The first location is usually right down the line, and it appears to be around 0, y, 3600. Then, the wall goes straight for a while, until it hits 500, y, 3800. Then, the hypothetical last dot in the part you're looking at (which typically joins the different wall parts together) is 1200, y, 4000.

Now, you open up Wall.dat in Word and start looking around, and you see 1.012, 120.453, 3597.431 or 1.012, 0.296, 3597.431, and nothing else too similar. Well, there's a really good chance that the program is using that location as your rough guess of 0, y, 3600. So, go to notepad, write down 1, y, 3597, so you can keep track of what you're doing. Then, repeat for the other points you find.

Then, once you have the list, in notepad, make a note of what you're changing it into. So, notepad should have 1, y, 3597 -> 0, y, 3800, where 0, y, 3800 is where you want the collision detection to be. Then, just use word's find/replace function to manually search for 1 to replace with 0, and 3597 to replace with 3800. Note that each point in wall.dat have 3 or 4 entries for each the top and the bottom, so you will get many hits.

The frustrating part is that you have a ton of obtuse numbers you have to keep track of, and several different files you need to figure out. Make frequent backups, and test frequently. I started by taking one of the spring training stadiums and making it a 200' high wall, and eventually changed Cleveland Stadium into this:

So, remain patient, and take baby steps. I know everyone wants to burst into doing huge projects, but you'll have much greater success doing one thing at a time.

g'luck!

[Mav3rek]

ok, so i took your advice and started out trying to do stuff with AA stadium 1, and messing with it and wall.dat. So I took the left field wall and jacked it up to a green monster sized proportions, and edited wall.dat and now have a working "green monster" in left field at AA stadium number 1!!!

Granted this is just a baby step, and I don't have time to fully test it, I just know that it worked at least in this one spot...more testing is needed...but I'm happy that I did it....here are some pics:

The High Wall

A would have been homerun if I didn't change the wall!

Junior trying to track it down!

[utahjazzno12fan]

so, in effect, you could use that to make a wall 30 feet tall and 500 feet away?

[Mav3rek]

technically yes, what I'm thinking about doing is actually now moving the gigantic left field wall back some to where the hill that is directly behind it becomes in play.

[AstroEric]

Man...I have trouble just opening the stadiums in O-Edit. Errors errors errors.

But when I get home, get done grading papers, finish doing the laundry and do the readings for the classes I'm taking, I'll give this a shot. AKA...next week.

+1 XP for SeanO!

[utahjazzno12fan]

THats awesome... Maybe someone could make a super small park, and a super large park

[ChicagoCubs720]

I'm still just trying to figure everything with OEdit out. So I figured Olympic stadium would be a good stadium to start messing with walls b/c the outfield walls are all the same height, so I figured that would make the wall.dat editing that much easier. So in OEdit I went to File>Export>Rhino Points File and named the file center and saved it to my desktop. I chose part 169 as the one to export rhino points on b/c it is the centerfield wall in Olypic Stadium. What I got was a text file that I can open in notepad that has 3 columns of numbers in it. I'm assuming these refer to X,Y,Z coordinates respectively. The problem is that the numbers I have for the X column are all negative 4 digit decimals (For example -3983.760000) and the main problem with that is that in the wall.dat file there are no negative 4 digit decimals in the X column. So I'm not sure how this matches up with the wall.dat file, but it would seem that it logically would because I counted 67 "blue dots", and there are 67 lines of x,y,z coordinates in the .txt file.

I don't know if this makes a difference or not, but I think all stadiums are mirrored over the Y-axis in O-Edit in every view except the UV-Mapper

[Mav3rek]

that does make a HUGE difference. actually what I did to find the points to edit the wall height in AA01 (above) i just ignored the negative in front of the number in the x column, and found the corresponding point in wall.dat They weren't exact matches, but were 99% the same. I think one in the rhino points was like -4107.00056 and the point that I found in wall.dat was 4106.00060 or something like that. I just made up those numbers, but you get the idea. But this did make it a whole heck of a lot easier to edit the parts that I wanted, and it worked. I'm not home now, but once I get back and am able to do more work on this (probably Thursday) I'm going to do more research with editing the stadium and stuff and see if those rhino points help out even more with the wall.dat editing. If that is the case then maybe we have greatly simplified wall.dat by giving you a "hard" reference number from the rhino points to look for in wall.dat rather than just puting your mouse over a verticy in OEdit and looking for something similar. Just from my experience thus far it seems that moving your mouse just slightly from point A to point B can give you a big difference in the numbers they list for the point. But using the rhino points definately helped out this morning when I was messing with it, I just didn't have any more time to continue to investigate. But I do think that we have maybe at least simplified editing wall.dat

[ChicagoCubs720]

Great to hear! I'm pretty sure the stadium is mirrored over the y-axis, not the x-axis. It could be the x-axis or the y because the stadium model is simply mirrored. I'd test some of those numbers to make sure it is the y. If the x values are opposite what they are in the wall.dat, that means the model is reflected over the y-axis. If the y values are opposite what they are in the wall.dat, that means the model is reflected over the x-axis.

[Mav3rek]

yeah, it seems to me just from my early indications that it very well is mirrored over the Y axis, b/c the x points are opposite, rhino point -3456.789 is really 3456.7890 in wall.dat or something close to it.

[ChicagoCubs720]

yeah, it seems to me just from my early indications that it very well is mirrored over the Y axis, b/c the x points are opposite, rhino point -3456.789 is really 3456.7890 in wall.dat or something close to it.

cool! this find is very important

[ChicagoCubs720]

I just thought of another use for this! The rhino points could be exported and then they could be used to edit the mfield#.o precisely so the warning track can match up with the wall itself.

[paulw]

Rhino points are simply an easy way for multiple people to exchange work on a stadium - or to back up a part before you make a major change to it. To use Rhino points simply export a piece, then at later time if you want to reload this piece have the piece you want to replace it with selected and then load the Rhino point file. It will revert to your backed up version, for example, or load work on a piece another modder was working on. It's a great way to merge stuff and exchange work. Rhino points have nothing to do with wall.dat.

I didn't read all the posts in here but I'm sure as SeanO has said wall.dat is very tricky to work with. You can get all kinds of strange results such as balls rolling through walls, players going through walls, etc.. It's very frustrating to work with so you have to have a lot of patience. I literally hit hundreds of balls into areas of stadiums where I've changed wall.dat just to test it out - and still seen something strange happen at a later time. Good luck with your work - it can also be very satisfying when something really does work out right.

[Mav3rek]

I haven't fully tested out my stadium mod yet, so I'm not sure if it works 100% yet, I only had time to play with it for just a few seconds.

but what i'm thinking is that with using rhino points on a certain piece of the wall will give you verticies in notepad that give you a better point of reference to look for in wall.dat than just selecting a veriticy in OEdit and looking for something similar in wall.dat My thought process is that it's better to have a "hard" list of points from the piece created by rhino points rather than the "point and pray" method. But also I haven't really had a lot of time to mess with this so I could be way way way way way off.

[Mav3rek]

ok, I have another question. In AA stadium number 1 there is a little hill behind the left field wall. I want to push the left field wall that I have made back so that the hill is now in play. I've successfully pushed the wall back graphically and in wall.dat but the players still run through the hill. So is the hill controlled by coll.dat and I now have to edit it so that the hill becomes in play, or is this something that's not even possible?

[Mav3rek]

ok, in addition to the above question, here's another for all you wall.dat gurus. In AA park #1 the wall height for the outfield is 190.XXXXXXX. So to get better aquainted with wall.dat I took EVERY reference of 190.XXXXXX in the Y column and wrote down the EXACT references for x,y,z from wall.dat and then looked those up in the mstadium.o in OEdit. Funny thing is though that not all of th wall verticies in OEdit have a refernce code in wall.dat Does OEdit have more verticies in it than wall.dat has? For instance the Left Field wall has 4 verticies in OEdit. Counting from the bottom most verticy in the TOP view in OEdit, the 2nd one from the bottom has an address of something like -4107.266000,190.583900,633.943800 for the top and -4107.266000,-0.000001,633.944900 for the bottom. But there is nothing in OEdit that references these points. I literally took every reference of 190.XXXXXX from wall.dat and looked it up in OEdit and none came close to this point. Any ideas as to why?

[krawhitham]

do all faces for 2005 have 697 rhino points?