Hardway hates gay people

[medric822]

Ok, I can understand the uncomfortable in the locker room part. I had a gym class where 2/3 of the guys were gay, seriously. It's kinda disturbing when they watch eachother change. Even worse when they help eachother.

[MarkB]

Just on the whole homophobia being equated with racism thing, without intending to base anyone's opinions on the rights and wrongs of each or to throw my personal opinion out there, here's a quick point.

People are born with a certain skin colour; they have no choice in the matter. People are not born homosexual.

And medric, before you attempt to get into any further theological debates about society and human perception, you might want to complete your education first. The fact that you're learning new phrases is good, really. But at least learn the words you're hearing and don't just repeat it by how it sounds. "Descent" is a far cry from "dissent", "limp" is what you have if you're missing a certain "limb", and to "weild" (spelling error included) is not the same as to "yield". Regardless of the points you're making, you should have taken the L a while back and moved on. The more you post, the more you're embarrassing yourself. If you have an opinion, great, have it, but at least be consistent and stand by it. If you feel the need to apologise for and retract your own opinions, then quite frankly, you have a lot more to worry about than debating the in's and out's of the Bible. From your posts so far, you remind me of someone who loves throwing his opinions around, but is the first to pull the "I have a twin brother across town who says that all the time, I didn't say that" card when he's challenged on it. Sort of like the "I hate high school jocks" kid, who then soiled his pants when the high school jock turned around and asked him to repeat what he said. Get a grip.

[Guest]

Mark, is it really scientifically proven that people are not born gay? That would be a cool fact to know.

[AstroEric]

I guess it's just like it's the rest of our choice to be heterosexual. Which means you're all this close to being gay.

[MarkB]

There have been various reports for both sides of the argument, but nothing, to my knowledge, has been definitively proven. One report or study will say there is a certain gene, chemical, enzyme or parental factor that provides a higher probability of producing homosexual offspring, another will say that this is incorrect for reasons x, y and z. It really just boils down to your own personal beliefs as to which reports you believe and where you get your information from.

Personally, I believe that as humans, we base our opinions, likes and dislikes on various factors, such as our upbringing, and become who we are based on those factors. We choose what we like and what we dislike and most people are attracted more to things they like than to things they dislike. We choose what situations we feel comfortable in and most people would rather be in a comfortable position, say, at a baseball game, that in an uncomfortable one, say, in a dark room surrounded by killer pitbulls. We choose what people we like and dislike and will most often attempt to surround ourselves with people we are friendly with, or can at least hold a civil discussion, regardless of whether or not we have anything in particular in common with them, their opinions, or whether we actually like the person in the first place. With these comes the general logic that we choose who we are attracted to. Take, for example, a 10 year old boy. He'll be exactly the same as most other 10 year old boys. He'll play baseball, football and soccer with his friends, will form friendships and will have a couple of primary school "girlfriends" along the way. Suddenly, he'll change, and he'll decide that he likes the company of males more, and is attracted to them more, than females. If he was born gay, why would he ever be attracted to females in the first place? Why wouldn't it be evidenced at some point before he hits puberty and develops an attraction to the same guys he played sports with as a child?

Now, this is obviously just a very quick and nasty example and isn't to say that every kid who hasn't had a "girlfriend" in primary school, doesn't play sports or hasn't shown signs of "straightness" is homosexual.

On that note, I've also heard arguments that people can both be born, and choose to be, homosexual. None of them were even worth typing.

[oxbay]

Ok, I can understand the uncomfortable in the locker room part. I had a gym class where 2/3 of the guys were gay, seriously. It's kinda disturbing when they watch eachother change. Even worse when they help eachother.

I highly doubt that 2/3 of your class was gay, especially since "gym class" means you were in junior high or high school and there it is seemingly unrealistic that 2/3 of a junior high / high school gym class would be openly gay.

[DJEagles]

Ok, I can understand the uncomfortable in the locker room part. I had a gym class where 2/3 of the guys were gay, seriously. It's kinda disturbing when they watch eachother change. Even worse when they help eachother.

Sure they were.

[KillerBs]

I have tried to avoid this topic but I can't help myself.

Hory seems to be having trouble distinguishing between the New and Old Testaments.

Here is my two cents on just about everything that Sean O said. Oh and I capitalized Bible in your posts for you.

Wow, you really are a dumb scumbag, aren't you?

Also, Bible people, you're also firmly against the 'mixing of different types of cloth togethe' thing, right? Because otherwise, I'll see you in hell too.

The bible says a lot of garbage. Taking any of it literally, especially considering its history, is utter insanity.

Alright, attacking others = not a good idea. The cloth together thing? Book , chapter, and verse(s) please, I would like to take a look at this, as I don't remember reading anything about it. Could you be more specific as to what this "considering its history" means?

Where to begin? Upright religious men throwing their innocent daughters to angry mobs to be raped and murdered, people randomly murdering Egyptians when they know no one is looking, stoning rape victims to death, punishing believers after being goaded by Satan... that's just a short list of Biblical atrocities.

You capitalize "Satan" but not "Biblical"? Randomly murdering Egyptians? Upright religious men throwing daughters to mobs? Please be more specific so I can pick apart your argument more efficiently.

And I capitalize the Brothers Karamazov, not the Bible. It is undeserving.

Because you recently attacked medric I think it was for being uneducated, then I'm going to point out that you can't start a sentence with the word "and" and be grammatically correct. Then there is your post. Where to begin? The Bible, if you don't believe in it, at least respect it for being a book. You capitalize proper nouns, yes?

Look, I take a Dostoevsky stand in regards to religion. If you're going to be religious, knock yourself out, but don't be a hate monger about it. I am nearly certain that if Jesus ends up somehow being the Son of God, that he won't hate black people, arabs, gays, women, jews, or whatever. He would preach tolerance and acceptance. Using a book written by mankind that has been perverted by every major historical movement over 2000 years to justify personal predilections is not something I see any sense in.

I agree that you shouldn't hate any person for any reason. In the Bible hating is considered murdering. I do agree with you that Jesus wouldn't hate any group in any way. I do, however, think that being homosexual is against God's laws.

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV, the only real English version): Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I'm sorry if that offends you.

[DoubleD]

Because you recently attacked medric I think it was for being uneducated, then I'm going to point out that you can't start a sentence with the word "and" and be grammatically correct.

Actually you can.

It's often said you can't in grade school, and it's considered unprofessional in a business situation (hence it's teachings in school, since school is basically nothing but getting you read for the business world), but it is grammatically correct to start a sentence with a conjunction.

[KillerBs]

Oh, really? Well then forgive my old English. Back when I was in college it was still bad to start a sentence with any conjunction, but especially with and. I would do a quick search for a source that says that I'm right (and ignore any source that says you are right), but I am tired, lol.

Edit: Fixed Typo

[Hory]

The cloth together thing? Book , chapter, and verse(s) please, I would like to take a look at this, as I don't remember reading anything about it

Deuteronomy 23:1

"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together."

I do agree with you that Jesus wouldn't hate any group in any way. I do, however, think that being homosexual is against God's laws.

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV, the only real English version): Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I'm sorry if that offends you.

I have tried to avoid this topic but I can't help myself.

Hory seems to be having trouble distinguishing between the New and Old Testaments.

But "god's law" you quoted is in the old testament just as are the crazy rules about not wearing mixed fabrics, working or lighting a fire on a Sunday, and never eating fat?

[Hory]

People are born with a certain skin colour; they have no choice in the matter. People are not born homosexual.

Ahh an unequivocal statement, that happens to be completely wrong.

There have been various reports for both sides of the argument, but nothing, to my knowledge, has been definitively proven. One report or study will say there is a certain gene, chemical, enzyme or parental factor that provides a higher probability of producing homosexual offspring, another will say that this is incorrect for reasons x, y and z. It really just boils down to your own personal beliefs as to which reports you believe and where you get your information from.

On that note, I've also heard arguments that people can both be born, and choose to be, homosexual. None of them were even worth typing.

So now we have the partial climbdown as try you to fudge the issue and who cares about science and facts anyway, it's what you believe that matters.

If he was born gay, why would he ever be attracted to females in the first place? Why wouldn't it be evidenced at some point before he hits puberty and develops an attraction to the same guys he played sports with as a child?

It's called social conditioning.

[KillerBs]

I'm extremely tired, but I'll try anyway. The Sabbath day thing was rendered obsolete by the death of Jesus, I think (I'm probably wrong, but it is like 3 am, cut me some slack). Never eating fat applied only to Jews I believe, and I'm still not sure about the cloth thing because the reference you quoted was wrong. You are right about the OT source, though. I have a New Testament verse for you now.

Romans 1:27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

[medric822]

Where to begin? Upright religious men throwing their innocent daughters to angry mobs to be raped and murdered, people randomly murdering Egyptians when they know no one is looking, stoning rape victims to death, punishing believers after being goaded by Satan... that's just a short list of Biblical atrocities.

Egyptians being randomly killed, I believe he's trying to refer to how Moses Killed an egyptian guard. Possibly the entire Egyptian army being destroyed by the Red Sea. And with the throwing of daughters to mobs, I believe he's refering to the story of Lot and his family in Soddom.

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV, the only real English version): Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I'm sorry if that offends you.

I guess thats one part we shouldn't take litteraly.

Oh, and for anyone else, I'm sorry if I mispell words here and there, spelling was never my strong point.

Also, I happen o agree with MarkB on people not being born homosexuals. Have you ever heard of a doctor saying:

"Congradulations sir, your wife just gave birth to a seven pound six oz homosexual."

With the fathers reply- "What! How do you know that he's a homosexual?"

And the doc says "Well look at how limp that wrist is."

So, imo, people are not born gay.

[fred13]

Oh, and for anyone else, I'm sorry if I mispell words here and there, spelling was never my strong point.

Apparently neither is any knowledge whatsoever.

[DJEagles]

Egyptians being randomly killed, I believe he's trying to refer to how Moses Killed an egyptian guard. Possibly the entire Egyptian army being destroyed by the Red Sea. And with the throwing of daughters to mobs, I believe he's refering to the story of Lot and his family in Soddom.

I guess thats one part we shouldn't take litteraly.

Oh, and for anyone else, I'm sorry if I mispell words here and there, spelling was never my strong point.

Also, I happen o agree with MarkB on people not being born homosexuals. Have you ever heard of a doctor saying:

"Congradulations sir, your wife just gave birth to a seven pound six oz homosexual."

With the fathers reply- "What! How do you know that he's a homosexual?"

And the doc says "Well look at how limp that wrist is."

So, imo, people are not born gay.

Do you not realize how uneducated, and trashy you sound? You are really coming off as a bigot and a hate-monger. You say you are a "Good Christian" and you quote Bible passages, yet your posts are hate filled. You sir are a hypocrite. A Bible-thumping hypocrite, who does not know what he is talking about...You are the type of person who thinks his path to Heaven has already been paved, and that's sad.

You have a lot to learn, and I hope life smacks you off side of your head, before you start to spout this crap in real life.

And before you judge me for writing this thread about you...remember you are judging Arabs and homosexuals without taking the time to really get to know them.

[lautrec]

Ok, here's the deal.

I believe in the Bible, and have been a Christian for 7 or 8 years now. That being said, I believe that homosexuality is wrong. I don't believe you should hate someone for any reason what-so-ever, but you can believe that they way they live their life is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. But the thing most people are taking way too literally is all of the stories in the Bible.

The Bible is the story of God, and of Jesus. It is basically a history of the world and life and times of people who lived "back in the day" Everything in the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. The Bible is simply a guide for the way a Christian should lead his/her life. If you want a blueprint as to how a Christian is to lead their life, look no further than the 10 commandments. These, and these alone, are the top to bottom guidelines for the way a Christian should live. There are many many many stories, and parables in the Bible. Heck, the Bible even says that women should not speak in church (or something to that extent), but just becuase you read a story in the Bible, does NOT mean that it is supposed to be a "way of life" Obviously the world has changed a lot since the time in which the Bible was written, stonings don't happen in everyday life anymore. Just because there is a story about someone being stoned, it does not mean that Christians should start stoning people for doing wrong.

The 10 Commandments are the blueprint for all Christians to live their life. They say to remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy. This does not mean that if you work on a Sunday you are going to burn in Hell. It simply says to keep the Sabbath day Holy.

Mav, I appreciate your attempt of honest discourse, your cause for defending the faith. However, please remember that you are ultimately dealing with the arrogance of man. We, as men/mankind do not like being subjegated for one second. We do not like being told that we were created for the pleasure of a superior being. This concept will always bring out the alleged "intellectuals", the superior "educated minds" the self-proclaimed theologians and "thinkers". And, no matter where they live, in their minds, they certainly have the freedom to think what they will. Did God create man with freewill? Of course. Has man always tried to ascend above God? Yes. The path is narrow, my friend, few will find it. remember that Christianity is the ONLY religion that God reaches out to man, instead of man needing to reach to God. It's your choice. Mav, I'll meet up with you in our real home one day. Later.

[fred13]

Christianity is the ONLY religion that God reaches out to man, instead of man needing to reach to God.

You sir, are incorrect.

Look up Zoroastrianism, which many Christian principles were in fact based upon.

[lautrec]

You sir, are incorrect.

Look up Zoroastrianism, which many Christian principles were in fact based upon.

I won't question your belief or motivation about this. I would like to ask you if there are any requirements on the part of man to reach total liberation, or heaven if you will, with the help of Ahura Mazda? It's a serious question, I am not trying to start a religious war! thanks.

[AstroEric]

Because you recently attacked medric I think it was for being uneducated, then I'm going to point out that you can't start a sentence with the word "and" and be grammatically correct.

I'm an English instructor, teaching Engl. 101 and 102 on the university level. It's okay to do this. I'd rather a student start a sentence with "and" or "but" than construct long, hard-to-follow sentences or use run-ons and comma splices. Doing this is, however, still frowned upon in some professional circles.

[fred13]

I won't question your belief or motivation about this. I would like to ask you if there are any requirements on the part of man to reach total liberation, or heaven if you will, with the help of Ahura Mazda? It's a serious question, I am not trying to start a religious war! thanks.

I'm not really sure if I understand the question but I'll try to answer it. In Zoroastrianism, there is rarely a clearcut right and wrong. Its more about the choices you make and whether you take responsibility for your actions that justifies whether or not one is worthy of eternal bliss. The texts are more guidelines than rule books. One should gain an understanding of whether his actions have a positive or negative impact on humanity and it is based on that understanding and how one acts upon that we are judged. So I would say there aren't persay "requirements" but that it is the wisdom we gain in our lives that will allow us to reach total liberation as you say.

(Hope I didn't just confuse you more)

[medric822]

Do you not realize how uneducated, and trashy you sound? You are really coming off as a bigot and a hate-monger. You say you are a "Good Christian" and you quote Bible passages, yet your posts are hate filled. You sir are a hypocrite. A Bible-thumping hypocrite, who does not know what he is talking about...You are the type of person who thinks his path to Heaven has already been paved, and that's sad.

You have a lot to learn, and I hope life smacks you off side of your head, before you start to spout this crap in real life.

And before you judge me for writing this thread about you...remember you are judging Arabs and homosexuals without taking the time to really get to know them.

How is what I said hate filled? AND OMFG! DROP THE ARAB THING. I SAID IN A LATER POST WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY! And just because I dont like having a gym class with homosexuals, because I feel uncomfortable, is that so wrong? If you sat down on a park bench, and two homeless guys who smelled terrible sat on each side of you. Just because you get up to leave, does that mean that you hate homeless people?

[KillerBs]

I'm an English instructor, teaching Engl. 101 and 102 on the university level. It's okay to do this. I'd rather a student start a sentence with "and" or "but" than construct long, hard-to-follow sentences or use run-ons and comma splices. Doing this is, however, still frowned upon in some professional circles.

I know I tend to drone on and on in my sentences. I tend to think in long drawn out sentences, and I talk/type/write exactly how I think. Thanks for the professional help in the conjunction subject.

[fred13]

AND OMFG! DROP THE ARAB THING. I SAID IN A LATER POST WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY!

If you were a good Christian, would you really say "OMFG", isn't that a sin just like homosexuality according to you?

And one more time, look up Freudian Slip: http://www.answers.com/topic/freudian-slip

[DJEagles]

How is what I said hate filled? AND OMFG! DROP THE ARAB THING. I SAID IN A LATER POST WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY! And just because I dont like having a gym class with homosexuals, because I feel uncomfortable, is that so wrong? If you sat down on a park bench, and two homeless guys who smelled terrible sat on each side of you. Just because you get up to leave, does that mean that you hate homeless people?

You have rubbed people the wrong way with your comments. I am not going to hold it against you, because I have had no problem with you on this site...but a simple apology doesn't make your initial comment go away.

It bothers me, because of a few, you were able to just say that you hate a certain race. Regardless if you meant it or not, it was typed, and it was read.

What I don't like is people who are "Christians" quoting the scriptures in the Bible, to justify their own misgivings and short comings. All mankind is created euqal...Black, White, Arab, Straight, Gay, Yellow, Purple, etc. We are all equal in the eyes of God.