ronmexico Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Not to be off topic, but why are these posts that BS is quoting from medric not showing up for me? I mean, I can see that he's quoting medric, and the text in the quotes, but I look up, and around, and I have no record of him saying these things (and he's not on my ignore list). The last recorded post of medric I have is at 4:26 PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Now I am Catholic, but lets be realistic here people, the Bible is embelished a little. Genisis 1-11 are not true. Adam and Eve never happened, the apple is false and Cain never killed Abel. I am Jewish. (not trying to be a smart aleck here) I believe Genesis 1-11 is just as true as any of the Bible. G-D spoke those words as He spoke the rest. I see no reason to doubt them. Btw... I also believe the apple is false. However Scripture never says the fruit of the tree was an apple. Interestingly enough the Rabbi's state three different opinions on what the fruit was. (& they also tell us why Scripture does not mention the fruit by name) One opinion was it was a fig. Another is it was a grape. A third is it was wheat. (yes, wheat grew on a tree before the sin) Notice that nobody says it was an apple. All three opinions have Scriptural basis for understanding it to be that particular fruit whilst there is no basis for understanding it to have been the apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Not to be off topic, but why are these posts that BS is quoting from medric not showing up for me? I mean, I can see that he's quoting medric, and the text in the quotes, but I look up, and around, and I have no record of him saying these things (and he's not on my ignore list). The last recorded post of medric I have is at 4:26 PM. They are from pages that are more towards the beginning of the thread since I first today discovered this thread... I have only now been reading through the pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Then why are there so many poor Christians? Seems to me you're making a better case for being Jewish. --Eric That reminds me of a good Jewish joke I heard years ago. You made me smile Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronmexico Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 That reminds me of every Jewish joke I know Well to medrics demise I must be getting ready for sleep cause I have to get up early so I can throw a Purim bash. (Sorry, low blow, but its true) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Ok, How can you say you believe in God, and the Bible, but only cjoose to believe what you want to believe. You are the worst hypocrite of all here then. What do you believe then? Big bang theory? Which do you believe, choice A or choice B? A- In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth. B- In the begining, Chance created the earth and universe, which man knows little about.. Actually neither is true. Scripture never says "in the Beginning G-D created the heavens & the earth". The correct way to read the verse is as follows... 1. In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth. Rashi (a great Jewish Rabbi) explains .. In the beginning of God’s creation of Heb. בְּרֵ×שִית בָּרָ×. This verse calls for a midrashic interpretation [because according to its simple interpretation, the vowelization of the word בָּרָ×, should be different, as Rashi explains further]. It teaches us that the sequence of the Creation as written is impossible, as is written immediately below] as our Rabbis stated (Letters of R. Akiva , letter “beth†; Gen. Rabbah 1:6; Lev. Rabbah 36:4): [God created the world] for the sake of the Torah, which is called (Prov. 8:22): “the beginning of His way,†and for the sake of Israel, who are called (Jer. 2:3) “the first of His grain.†But if you wish to explain it according to its simple meaning, explain it thus: “At the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth, the earth was astonishing with emptiness, and darkness…and God said, ‘Let there be light.’†But Scripture did not come to teach the sequence of the Creation, to say that these came first, for if it came to teach this, it should have written:“At first (בָּרִ×ש××•Ö¹× Ö¸×”) He created the heavens and the earth,†for there is no רֵ×ש×ִית in Scripture that is not connected to the following word, [i.e., in the construct state] like (ibid. 27:1):“In the beginning of (בְּרֵ×שִית) the reign of Jehoiakim†; (below 10:10)“the beginning of (רֵ×ש×ִית) his reign†; (Deut. 18:4)“the first (רֵ×ש×ִית) of your corn.†Here too, you say בְּרֵ×ש×ִית ×‘Ö¼Ö¸×¨Ö¸× ×לֹהִי×, like בְּרֵ×ש×ִית בְּרֹ×, in the beginning of creating. And similar to this is,“At the beginning of the Lord’s speaking (דִּבֶּר) to Hosea,†(Hos. 1:2), i.e., at the beginning of the speaking (דִּבּוּרוֹ) of the Holy One, Blessed be He, to Hosea, “the Lord said to Hosea, etc.†Now if you say that it came to teach that these (i.e., heaven and earth) were created first, and that its meaning is: In the beginning of all, He created these-and that there are elliptical verses that omit one word, like (Job 3:9): “For [He] did not shut the doors of my [mother’s] womb,†and it does not explain who it was who shut [the womb]; and like (Isa. 8:4): “he will carry off the wealth of Damascus,†and it does not explain who will carry it off; and like (Amos 6:12): “or will one plow with cattle,†and it does not explain: “if a man will plow with cattle†; and like (Isa. 46: 10): “telling the end from the beginning,†and it does not explain that [it means] telling the end of a matter from the beginning of a matter-if so, [if you say that Scripture indicates the order of creation] be astounded at yourself, for the water preceded, as it is written: “and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the water,†and Scripture did not yet disclose when the creation of water took place! From this you learn that the water preceded the earth. Moreover, the heavens were created from fire and water. Perforce, you must admit that Scripture did not teach us anything about the sequence of the earlier and the later [acts of creation]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 That reminds me of every Jewish joke I know Well to medrics demise I must be getting ready for sleep cause I have to get up early so I can throw a Purim bash. (Sorry, low blow, but its true) Wow, early start. Purim is not till Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Medric, theory is just another name for FACT. (ie Einstein's Theory of Relativity) I beg to differ. Evolution is not a fact. G-D said otherwise. I am reminded of a story about scientists at MIT who claimed to discover the "secret ingredient" of Coca cola. The CEO of Coke agreed to meet with them whilst they would present their "proof" to him. Having done so the CEO proceeded to explain that they were wrong despite their research. He said to them, "I was there when it was made. All your research is no match for my being there." G-D was there when it happened. Darwin was not. I trust the One who saw it all. P.S. I believe in devolution since man today is inferior to man of yesteryear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronmexico Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Wow, early start. Purim is not till Saturday night. Yea, I meant more along the lines of tommorow I have to gather the junk to put it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJEagles Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 What is this Purim bash you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerBs Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I'm really enjoying this. Hey shmooz, can you give your thoughts on Isaiah 40:22? I have always found that verse interesting. It says (in KJV) "circle of the Earth." I have always though that was interesting because people didn't know that the Earth was round at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronmexico Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 It's a party to celebrate Purim. They'res a fun tale that goes behind Purim, but kids tend to dress up in costumes n such, and the adults (and sometimes the kids) tend to get hammered. http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday9.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 The Bible, believe it or not, was created by man, not God. Man chose what goes into the Bible. He also chose what to leave out. Has anyone heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These are some of the many versions of the gospels that were around when selecting the gospels for the Bible. To take the Bible at face value and blindly believe is to not explore all aspects of your faith. Not all of us share that opinion. I just wanted to make this known since you stated this as a matter of fact. I am a Jew & I believe the Jewish Bible was written by G-D. Man published it, but G-D is the author. This is my belief. In fact there is information that man could not have written. Such as where the Bible speaks about what a person was thinking. Or certain guarantees such as that nobody would covet another person's land when he went up to the Temple 3 times a year. How can a human being make such a guarantee that nobody would desire another person's land three times a year when they went to the Temple? Only G-D can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I'm really enjoying this. Hey shmooz, can you give your thoughts on Isaiah 40:22? I have always found that verse interesting. It says (in KJV) "circle of the Earth." I have always though that was interesting because people didn't know that the Earth was round at that time. Ah... Interesting you say that. The answer is Jews DID know the earth was round. The Jerusalem Talmud speaks about that Alexander the great actually went up high enough & SAW the roundness of the earth. This was written down WAY before this knowledge became available to the rest of the world. (over 1400 years ago) Edit: Scripture also speaks of stars that do not give off light. Recently scientists discovered this fact. I find it very interesting that as scientists learn more & more about the truth of the universe, it points always more towards the truth of a Creator & the Torah being an accurate portrait. For those genuinely interested in this topic I would recommend a book by Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen called "Permission to believe". One can find it on amazon for as low as 5.95 (used). (He also put out a second book called "Permission to receive" in which he explains why the Torah is true) I will add one more thing. Documents found belonging to Columbus were found to contain Hebrew lettering in them. This has led to speculation that Columbus was in fact a Jew. Whilst I do not know if this is so, I find it most interesting that he was so determined to sail west to go east. (something only Jews knew would work at that time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medric822 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Thanks big shmooz for filling me on on some of the Jewish faith. As an expieremant last year, I just about tricked the entire school into believing I was Jewish to win a bet, and I won too. I went to websites something like askmoses.com, and I also have a Jewish friend who game me some pointers. So if I was wrong, I hope you dont think it was anything personal against the Jewish faith, or more importantly, against you. I was watching a good movie the other day, "Fiddler on the Roof," and I heard a pritty funny quote that I thought was good, and I'm deciding to share it with you. "...Even the great and wealthy must die. In fact, if the rich could hire others to die for them, we the poor would all make a nice living." That has nothing to do with this thred, but I thought it was good for a laugh just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronmexico Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 As an expieremant last year, I just about tricked the entire school into believing I was Jewish to win a bet, and I won too. I don't often go very harsh and say this, but dude, this you are sick (or whatever you have said). Welcome to my ignore list, I'm very glad to say, you solely own 100% of the positions on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Thanks big shmooz for filling me on on some of the Jewish faith. As an expieremant last year, I just about tricked the entire school into believing I was Jewish to win a bet, and I won too. I went to websites something like askmoses.com, and I also have a Jewish friend who game me some pointers. So if I was wrong, I hope you dont think it was anything personal against the Jewish faith, or more importantly, against you. I was watching a good movie the other day, "Fiddler on the Roof," and I heard a pritty funny quote that I thought was good, and I'm deciding to share it with you. "...Even the great and wealthy must die. In fact, if the rich could hire others to die for them, we the poor would all make a nice living." That has nothing to do with this thred, but I thought it was good for a laugh just the same. I have not taken personally anything you (or others) have stated. Just because I may not agree with a person's opinion does not mean I hold a grudge for them having one. Btw... that quote was indeed funny :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I don't often go very harsh and say this, but dude, this you are sick (or whatever you have said). Welcome to my ignore list, I'm very glad to say, you solely own 100% of the positions on there. As a Jew I do not feel offended at all. I don't believe it was done out of malice. I think it was a bet & I am sure in the end he revealed the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronmexico Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Maybe I over-reacted, but that strikes me as insensitive. I wouldn't have pretended to be a Muslim to win a bet, I would have said, "no, that's pretty wrong". But through this thread we've all seen that we all have our differences. Sorry medric, you're off the list ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 LOL, I know there always has to be something "in the beginning". I know this question is as old as time, and I know one post will not change your mind, but here goes... Whatever name you give the Creator, and whatever origin of the universe you choose to believe (Creation story, Big Bang, Bob's theory of the universe, etc...) there has to be something before. Is it necessarily called "God", of course not. This is the name that we humans, with all of our faults, have given to Him. But there has to be some higher power to Create the world. It cannot simply always have existed, something had to create it. I know that one could go on and on forever about "If God created the world, then who created God" and then if something created God, then who created that something. For most this is God, but there has to be a higher power to Create everything we see. The physical world has been widely acknowledged to not have always existed, something had to pack all those little atoms into that small space. I would like to add my own 2 cents to your response. I think the question itself is flawed. Why assume that G-D NEEDS a creator? G-D is different from everything else because everything else was created by Him. So why would one apply the same rules to G-D as one does to His creation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 If the world and us humans were created, what is our purpose? To praise god? I kind of doubt the he would be that arrogant. I think we were on the most part a mistake. I find your comment quite fascinating in that you come to your own conclusion on a question & based on that (what I believe incorrect) conclusion, you discount man's purpose in creation. Btw.. one a side note, praising G-D is something that benefits us. G-D desires our praise of Him for many reasons. (none of them being egotistical) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroEric Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I spent a half year learning lots about the Jewish faith from a girl I was trying to take to prom. It totally didn't work. Her grandfather, in one of the great moments of irony, owns one of the world's leading Christmas ornament production factories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJEagles Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 I spent a half year learning lots about the Jewish faith from a girl I was trying to take to prom. It totally didn't work. Her grandfather, in one of the great moments of irony, owns one of the world's leading Christmas ornament production factories. That sentence right there, just made me laugh so hard, I just about fell off my chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medric822 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Yeah, lol. Thats great! About the me becoming "Jewish" last year, it was great. I must say although the intentions were for the wrong reason, it was a good expierance, because I had the chance to see what it was like for soemone of the Jewish faith, and how much people make fun of them because of shows like South Park and (Not sure on this, so if I'm wrong, correct me, dont scold me) Family Guy. I was called everything from Dradel Boy to Dirty Jew Rat. I never made fun of Jews before for their religion, because it just wasn't right. But overall, it was fun. This year, my friend who made the bet with me last year gave me a new chalange. He wanted me to convince the entire school that I was a different skin color, but that didn't work. I lost that bet. (Side note: I didn't do anything to bring shame onto the Jewish religion, or the ethnic group that I chose to be for the second bet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big shmooz Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 How can hell not exist, when in the Bible, in Genesis, it tells of how Satan tricked 1/3 of the Angles to turn against God, and how God sent them all into hell. I must admit I am a bit confused here. I have read the entire book of Genesis probably close to 500 times. Genesis says no such thing. Btw... I do believe in hell. (though not the Christian version of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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