James Cameron to unveil Jesus Christ's Coffin live Monday.

[DJEagles]

I believe in the Lord, and I accept everyone and their different religions. What I don't accept are people like Medric who insist that their religion is THE ONLY ONE.

Like you have said over and over Medric, I don't dislike the person, only their actions. You are very close minded when it comes to religion, and I have decided to accept that and move on.

[Guest]

Anywho, I've got all my money riding on this being just like Geraldo opening up Capone's safe.

If you compare that situation to this, what could we find? Gold? Jewels? The body of Jimmy Hoffa? Nah. El Zilcho. This will widely be believed to be the end of James Cameron's career, just like with Geraldo. XD

And I GUESS, since we're on the topic of religion, I was raised Catholic so I hold a lot of Christian beliefs, but I'm more Wiccan and Universalist. Every living thing should be considered sacred. No people telling you what to do, just fellow students living and learning.

[Lars777]

What offends me is not that you are a "Born Again"--far from it. What is deeply offensive is your accusation, or rather you claim to KNOW (as many evangelicals supposedly do) that a Catholic is not a Christian. Let me remind you first of all that there would be no organized Christian religion without the Catholic Church's existence before the Reformation. A great many of the tenets upon which Christian faith is based comes directly from Catholic writers, such as St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas.

Secondly, let me refute your "points":

1. Catholics worship God above all else. To insinuate otherwise is beyond ignorant. We know, as any Christian does, that there is no other God than God.

2. We do not "worship" the Pope. Rather, we look to him for spiritual guidance. If you look to the Gospels (ironic, I know), you will find the passage in which Jesus tells Peter that he (Peter) is the rock upon which Christ will build his church. This is the same place the common legend about St. Peter being the gate-keeper in Heaven comes from. The point being that the Pope descends from this line of spiritual succession and is thus qualified to give spiritual guidance. However, we recognize that he is only human and is liable to mistakes . The over all point is that we do NOT regard him as our leader above Christ. Your claim to "know" that that is the case displays your sophomoric ignorance.

3. We do not "worship" Mary. We revere her as the Mother of Christ, for bringing Him into the world and raising Him before His ministry. As she is particularly close to God and Christ, we ask her to intervene with them on our behalf.

4. We look to the saints as paragons of virtue and the personification of how Christ exhorts us to live. Because they lived their lives with such virtue and holiness, we occasionally beseech them to intercede on our behalf. We do not "pray" to them in the sense of asking them to give us something.

I hope that sufficiently shows you that Catholics are not the devil-worshipers that Jack Chick makes them out to be.

The only problem with the Catholic church looking at Peter as upon this rock I will build my church.......is Jesus is not referring to Peter.

Notice what took place just before Jesus said what he said.......He asked them who do you think I am?

Peter said You are the Christ the son of God.......Now Jesus said there was no way for Peter to know this except it came directly from God......a revelation.

It was upon this rock of revelation knowledge that the church was to be built!.........Notice also that the Word stated that no man can come unto the Father unless He is drawn by the Spirit.

The church is not built upon Peter....for Peter is not the head......Christ is the Head we are the body......and that includes Peter.

Now concerning Mary who needed salvation herself......was not sinless in her life as many believe.......Because the Word states that there is none sinless except Christ.

As to why many pray to Mary to intercede for us id beyond me as we have only one between us and the Father and He is Jesus Christ.

Mary is no more righteous or holy than I........we both needed a Savior !

She was a vessel chosen by the Lord for her Faith in the Lord!

Just as Abraham was the Father of many nations not because he was a great man but he believed.

But all in all no matter what denomanation you profess one cannot escape Romans 10:8-9.

If thou shall confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior thou shalt be saved!

There is no salvation in any other including the Catholic church which claims to be the only true church in that there is no salvation outside of there church.

[SeanRobinson]

"the Catholic church which claims to be the only true church in that there is no salvation outside of there church."

Um, yeah, that's not true. That may have been the official teaching pre-20th century, but post-Vatican II they abandoned it. Nice try.

[rkrnfan]

DJEagles11, I sincerely respect your opinion.

I just don't understand that multiple religions can lead to the same place. Religions are very different from each other, so I don't understand how people can follow very different teachings and get to the same God, heaven, life after death, etc.

I am a Christian myself, and Christ said that he was the only Way (John 14:6). If you believe that He was God, it's hard to argue with his claim. If you don't believe he was, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense because you believe that every religion is true. (I think that's what you are saying?)

Which religion do you follow, if any, so I can understand more clearly where you are coming from?

[DJEagles]

I am catholic.

Let's be honest. No one really knows what happens when we die. No one really knows where we will end up, if anywhere.

All we have is our faith, and we all have different faiths. I undestand and appreciate that. Please, just don't tell me yours is the only faith to believe in.

[lautrec]

Reading through thiss entire debate, it would be easy to become bogged down in the various forms of dogma, sterotypes and flat out guesses. One ight be easily discouraged by the sheer volume of text, with its accusations flying!

Be of heart! It IS wonderful debate and discussion. I will present my basic beliefs before my next statement, just so there will be no doubt as to where I stand on this. I am one of those "Born Again Christians", but I really think of myself as an adopted son of God. I don't believe that being good, or doing good things will get me into Heaven. I believe, that by God's GRACE and through faith, and accepting Jesus Christ as the propitiation for my sin, I can come to God the Father. That's it. That's what I believe for many reasons.

Now, having said that, it truly troubles me on some of things I've been reading on here, particularly from a few of my believing brothers. Like I said earlier, I cannot make anyone believe in God or Jesus. I can't make anyone believe the words and message of the Bible.

Probably the worst thing I could do, or the most damage to my cause, is to point out all the sins of other faiths or even non-believers or non-denominationals. How about this - Romans 5:7-9 says, "Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!"

I think we miss so much of the LOVE of Christ, and our focus becomes centered on people's shortcomings, that the true message of Christ is lost.

I am encouraged by those like KillerBs, who sees the good in the Cameron investigation. And while I will agree with his assessment that the verse in Matthew is debatable on whether this is a reference to the lineage of the pope, I hardly think it is a matter of large consequence, in the bigger picture.

For me, and many others I am sure, the issue is what we, as humans given life and the freedom of choice, do with that gift of choice. Do I look at the heavens and nature and choose to see God's hand in that, to see and know the Creator did this for us. OR, do I choose not to see it that way. Do I choose to read the Bible, knowing what I know about man, and his failings, and discount the words that are in the book? Or, do I choose to read the Bible, knowing what I know about man, and his failings, choose to meditate on the Word, and to let God's spirit minister to me, to let the Truth permeate my being, and thus understand?

Life is full of choices for me and all. Cameron is making his. We believers can make choices that will paint us in broad strokes, as haters, racists, homophobes, whatever. Or, we can pick up the cross, and carry it, and try to see what Jesus wanted us to see. LOVE.

[DJEagles]

Reading through thiss entire debate, it would be easy to become bogged down in the various forms of dogma, sterotypes and flat out guesses. One ight be easily discouraged by the sheer volume of text, with its accusations flying!

Be of heart! It IS wonderful debate and discussion. I will present my basic beliefs before my next statement, just so there will be no doubt as to where I stand on this. I am one of those "Born Again Christians", but I really think of myself as an adopted son of God. I don't believe that being good, or doing good things will get me into Heaven. I believe, that by God's GRACE and through faith, and accepting Jesus Christ as the propitiation for my sin, I can come to God the Father. That's it. That's what I believe for many reasons.

Now, having said that, it truly troubles me on some of things I've been reading on here, particularly from a few of my believing brothers. Like I said earlier, I cannot make anyone believe in God or Jesus. I can't make anyone believe the words and message of the Bible.

Probably the worst thing I could do, or the most damage to my cause, is to point out all the sins of other faiths or even non-believers or non-denominationals. How about this - Romans 5:7-9 says, "Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!"

I think we miss so much of the LOVE of Christ, and our focus becomes centered on people's shortcomings, that the true message of Christ is lost.

I am encouraged by those like KillerBs, who sees the good in the Cameron investigation. And while I will agree with his assessment that the verse in Matthew is debatable on whether this is a reference to the lineage of the pope, I hardly think it is a matter of large consequence, in the bigger picture.

For me, and many others I am sure, the issue is what we, as humans given life and the freedom of choice, do with that gift of choice. Do I look at the heavens and nature and choose to see God's hand in that, to see and know the Creator did this for us. OR, do I choose not to see it that way. Do I choose to read the Bible, knowing what I know about man, and his failings, and discount the words that are in the book? Or, do I choose to read the Bible, knowing what I know about man, and his failings, choose to meditate on the Word, and to let God's spirit minister to me, to let the Truth permeate my being, and thus understand?

Life is full of choices for me and all. Cameron is making his. We believers can make choices that will paint us in broad strokes, as haters, racists, homophobes, whatever. Or, we can pick up the cross, and carry it, and try to see what Jesus wanted us to see. LOVE.

Thank you for this post.

[cable901]

Very interesting discussion. Seems like a lot of people have just had bad experience with organized religion and adherents thereto. If I may chime in, it seems that the difficulty in the "all roads lead to heaven" statement is that few who take any particular faith seriously would agree with you. What I mean is, though that argument seems to favor religions of all kinds, not many who zealously follow any of those religions would even agree with you. Neither Christianity nor the Islamic faith nor any of the other major religions are alone in claims of exclusivity. Of course, I don't claim to know a ton about all the world's myriad religions (though I do know some), I do know that there isn't a whole lot of room for pluralism in many of them. Very interesting thoughts, though.

[cable901]

I look forward to the show on Discovery, I don't think the find is that amazing, no more than the James hoax a few years ago, but man I love an Indiana Jones tale.

Before becoming a journalist I was an anthropology student. I have years of human evolution studies and ancestral work in my past so I have an extreme science bias to all God conversations.

That's fantastic that you have an anthropology background! I'd love to know your thoughts about the find, from an anthropological perspective, knowing what you know. Especially considering the fact that the original archaeologist didn't even connect the tomb to the biblical Jesus. That seems like a pretty big detail to overlook.

I don't know who said it, but somebody a little earlier advised reserving judgment about the movie until we've seen it, and I think that's probably wise. All we can do is speculate about what it might be about, and what evidence he might bring to the table and we've actually seen it ourselves. The discussion it's lead to is pretty interesting, though.

[lautrec]

That's fantastic that you have an anthropology background! I'd love to know your thoughts about the find, from an anthropological perspective, knowing what you know. Especially considering the fact that the original archaeologist didn't even connect the tomb to the biblical Jesus. That seems like a pretty big detail to overlook.

I don't know who said it, but somebody a little earlier advised reserving judgment about the movie until we've seen it, and I think that's probably wise. All we can do is speculate about what it might be about, and what evidence he might bring to the table and we've actually seen it ourselves. The discussion it's lead to is pretty interesting, though.

Amen to that! Interesting, indeed.

[cable901]

You've represented yourself and your faith very well, lautrec. Thanks for being a gentle and objective voice.

[NYM]

Now I am Catholic, but lets be realistic here people, the Bible is embelished a little. Genisis 1-11 are not true. Adam and Eve never happened, the apple is false and Cain never killed Abel.

I do believe in a higher authority (God). Jesus was put into a tomb though. His actually body was laid to rest after his crucifiction in A.D. 33. The Bible says he ressurected on the third day, and stayed on Earth another 40 days.

Jesus did have a burial tomb, and he did have a coffin of some sort.

Thats just wasn't his FINAL resting place. He did accend into heaven.

[rkrnfan]

Nice lautrec. You put it very nicely and more elegantly than I could have! I agree with everything you say.

[cable901]

NYM, I'm curious how you can make such bold statements about falacies in the Bible without substantiation. Where are you coming from in saying those things?

By the way, traditional Jewish burial did not involve a coffin, but simply burial cloths, embalming oils and spices, a tomb, and a seal on the tomb. Only the rich would have afforded such a crypt as Cameron seems to be unveiling.

[chubbyd]

Very interesting conversation, and just when it seemed to get a little out of control, it was reeled back in. Good work, all.

I am a born again Christian. I was once Catholic, but I did not leave because it was a "bad" religion, or stupid, or anything like that. I left due to the many man-made rules that I didn't believe belonged in a Church of God. I could be wrong, but it is what I believe.

Now, as for other religions, it is a tight rope we must walk. We are commanded not to judge, lest we be judged ourselves. This is all I know- that he who believes in the Lord, and that He came down from heaven and died for our sins-- ALL of our sins-- will be saved. Thats it. The rest is up to you, to do in whatever way you want, whenever you want. But it is very hard for those of the flesh to live this out. None of us are without sin, and judgement is one.

This can also be applied to homosexuality- I dont hate the sinner, I hate the sin. Homosexuals, I believe, CAN get into heaven, if they believe what I said above. I dont agree with it, and there is more to the Bible preaching against it, if you want to look it up there is a verse in 1 Corinthians Ch 13, as well as others, but I dont hate Homosexuals. I dont judge them. I see the sin, I believe it is sin, and just like lying, I believe it requires repentance.

I gotta get up in 6 hours. Good conversation to keep me awake for though.

[cable901]

It seems to me that the whole morality of homosexuality discussion has been blown way out or proportion by people on both sides of the issue. Our culture in general has made a very big thing out of homosexuality, basically making it into an entire (sub-)culture unto itself, and the religious community has responded with a large amount of overreaction and bigotry and not a whole lot of love or temperance. Any Christian that claims "God hates homosexuals more than..." or even "God hates homosexuality more than..." doesn't have a very firm grasp of their theology and does little but defame their own faith.

By the way, chubbyd, this was not at all directed at you, or at anyone in particular. I just kinda used your comments about homosexuality as a springboard, that's all.

[krawhitham]

a lot of you people are very very scary

[AstroEric]

Catching up is hard to do:

Do you believe that the American Constitution is the true rules of the Gov't? Why's that? You weren't around when it was written. But why do you follow it, because someone told you so? Its just a piece of paper with rules written by Man. But you follow it. Now why is it so hard for people to follow the Bible, or to at least try, its the word of God. It seems like that should be the #1 prioritory.

But Thomas Jefferson didn't stick his head out of a cloud to tell other people what to write.

God wrote a book for Joseph Smith too. Why aren't you a Mormon?

Its not easy sticking to Religion when times are hard, but when you have nothing else to go to, I feel its more comforting to go to God.

Well, that's pretty much what we invented him for.

Christian better then being a Mormon, or a Jehovah's Witness?

This is too big and controversial to go into. But I can tell you that Mass...whoo. The first time I went, I had no idea about the standing and the kneeling and the whole ceremony of the service. I felt like I had a good exercise by the time it was over!

Well let me ask you this? How many religions have their Lord returning from the dead?

How many religions have their god turning into a swan and raping people?

God blesses Jews alot. Very few Jews are poor....

Then why are there so many poor Christians? Seems to me you're making a better case for being Jewish.

That is the fundamental principle of Zoroastrianism (my religion).

Can I pleeeeeeeeease call you Fredallah13 from now on?

a lot of you people are very very scary

I bet you say that to all the girls.

--Eric

[lautrec]

It seems to me that the whole morality of homosexuality discussion has been blown way out or proportion by people on both sides of the issue. Our culture in general has made a very big thing out of homosexuality, basically making it into an entire (sub-)culture unto itself, and the religious community has responded with a large amount of overreaction and bigotry and not a whole lot of love or temperance. Any Christian that claims "God hates homosexuals more than..." or even "God hates homosexuality more than..." doesn't have a very firm grasp of their theology and does little but defame their own faith.

By the way, chubbyd, this was not at all directed at you, or at anyone in particular. I just kinda used your comments about homosexuality as a springboard, that's all.

I have been trying to challenge myself on this very issue. I was in the camp of "hating the sin, not the sinner", but I'm inclined to believe that even that falls short of grace and love. It's really tough for those of us who were raised to believe certain moral or immoral behaviors are either righteous or evil.

I won't hedge by saying that "while I don't agree with homosexuality, I believe this or that,,,yada yada yada" ..... I will say that to focus on another's sin, is to bring judgement upon oneself, not to mention all the distrust and plain dislike by those very people you are supposed to be witnessing to!

Why do we spend so much time concentrating on the other guy's faults, when we have so much to be ashamed of ourselves? Why do we want to so implicate the "sinner" while we have so much to be tahnkful for because God saved us IN SPITE of our sins!?! Why? Becuase as frail humans, I think we simply like to feel better about ourselves than the other guy. Harsh, but I think there's truth there.

You know, Jesus spent a lot of time with sinners. Why? Because He knew the best and most productive place to spend His time, and I can't help but think He just got His fill of all the religious types.

[ronmexico]

O man, I've read through all of this, kinda hoping to hear more about this tomb unvelining, and I kinda am sick of hearing religious perspectives (not the people who have posted, just in general). I took a couple hours out and read every wiki on every religion I could find, every little link on all those pages, just used my day, and I cannot see why all the hatred/seperation. Everyone has all their beliefs about what is right, or wrong, or how this world was created, but all religions have one major principle and that is to get you to live your life to your fullest, as best for you. It's kind of confusing me how everyone is pushing their perspective as the right one. I think we all can have our own perspective, which is what irritates me about "orgainzed" religion sometimes. I just think you should make your religious perspective, yours. I think I am gonna click stop watching this topic, cause I don't know if my smallish head can take this much more

Good night.

[lautrec]

O man, I've read through all of this, kinda hoping to hear more about this tomb unvelining, and I kinda am sick of hearing religious perspectives (not the people who have posted, just in general). I took a couple hours out and read every wiki on every religion I could find, every little link on all those pages, just used my day, and I cannot see why all the hatred/seperation. Everyone has all their beliefs about what is right, or wrong, or how this world was created, but all religions have one major principle and that is to get you to live your life to your fullest, as best for you. It's kind of confusing me how everyone is pushing their perspective as the right one. I think we all can have our own perspective, which is what irritates me about "orgainzed" religion sometimes. I just think you should make your religious perspective, yours. I think I am gonna click stop watching this topic, cause I don't know if my smallish head can take this much more

Good night.

I respect this post. I got a chuckle on that last line.....I hear ya, man!

[crowther]

In my hobby and leisure life I love to play mvp baseball. In my real life I am a retired pastor. I have read with interest, and some sadness, the comments presented in this forum. I respect all of you and I just want to give the Scripture a reading as to the actual resurrection of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel of Luke, chapter 24 we read -

"On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women

took spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. They found

the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they

did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were wondering

about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightening

stood beside them. . . the men said to them, 'Why do you look for

the living among the dead? He is not here; he has risen!'"

(verses 1-6)

Later, in the same chapter, Jesus appears to all the disciples.

"While they were talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them

and said to them, 'Peace be with you.' They were startled and

frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, 'Why are

you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my

hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost

does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.'"

(verses 36-39)

As well, earlier when Peter had run into the tomb we read -

"Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he

saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away,

wondering to himself what had happened." (verse 12)

Taking the Scripture at face value we have a body, wrapped in

burial cloths, laid in a tomb. Then we have a resurrected body of actual flesh and bones presented to the disciples. There is no box mentioned where bones had been. Only burial cloths; and there is a bodily resurrection.

For some the Scriptures are problematic, but for me they are the bottom line and very comforting.

God bless you all.

[medric822]

Well, that's pretty much what we invented him for.

I'm sorry to tell you, but the God I surve wasn't created by man, like many out there.

I just don't understand that multiple religions can lead to the same place. Religions are very different from each other, so I don't understand how people can follow very different teachings and get to the same God, heaven, life after death, etc.

There's the point I was trying to get across, since most religions have different teachings.

Now I am Catholic, but lets be realistic here people, the Bible is embelished a little. Genisis 1-11 are not true. Adam and Eve never happened, the apple is false and Cain never killed Abel.

I do believe in a higher authority (God). Jesus was put into a tomb though. His actually body was laid to rest after his crucifiction in A.D. 33. The Bible says he ressurected on the third day, and stayed on Earth another 40 days.

Jesus did have a burial tomb, and he did have a coffin of some sort.

Thats just wasn't his FINAL resting place. He did accend into heaven.

Ok, How can you say you believe in God, and the Bible, but only cjoose to believe what you want to believe. You are the worst hypocrite of all here then. What do you believe then? Big bang theory? Which do you believe, choice A or choice B?

A- In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.

B- In the begining, Chance created the earth and universe, which man knows little about.

Also, Jesus was buried in a tomb, yes, but a coffin, no. He was wrapped in linnin and spices, just like everyone else from that area/time period.

Someone said that they believe that some Muslims are saved. How can this be since they dont pray to Jesus, in fact, he's not even part of their religion. The thing that irritates me most, is how people are in such a big hurry to tear down religion, but could care less about starving children in Africa or the drug dealer selling to kids on their street corner.

It seems that lautrec and I have similar views on religion, but that I'm speak more on controversal topics and become persecuted because I dont know how to put things, where as he takes his time to explain himself.

[wordlife90210]

Science vs. Religeon / fact vs. belief / rational thought vs. make believe / truth vs. faith