Ann Coulter . . .

[el_jefe061]

I love the fact that anyone that disagrees with you, is wrong on so many levels. I have no problem with a person wanting to consider themselves homosexual, but when they say they was born that way, its just kind of retarded really. I mean look at all the gays that have turned from the lifestyle that SAID I WAS BORN THIS WAY. I mean you put any two same sex species together on nuetral turf they may try to mate with each other but its going to end in a standoff or lead to a fight if its two alpha males over the turf and the same goes for most female species as well. I know people that have bred various animals over the years, they havent reported one homosexual animal, and all of the animal documentaries have never reported a gay couple. The idea is ludacris that all the other species in the world have attraction to the same sex, but you put two same sex humans in the room together and you mind as well flip a coin. I don't think so. Yes, I have heard the testosterone theory. That some males get too little and females may recieve to much at a certain magical time in the womb that leads to homosexuality. It's amazing this never ever happens in the animal kingdom but make the jump to humans and its possible

You're making a ridiculous point here. Animals don't have mental capacity, emotion, or much else. They're all instincts. Animals don't have sex to screw, they have sex to procreate because it's natural. Only two species on Earth have sex for pleasure, humans and (yes, it's true) dolphins. Animals can't have "lovefests", because their brains don't function on anything besides instincts. So the fact you're saying that if you put two animals that they could end up gay is just stupid. Animals don't build relationships with people, think at a high level, or do anything that we humans do because it's not programmed into their brains. All animals have is instincts. Homosexuality is clearly something natural that has to do with hormones. People think people "choose" to be depressed, when it's been proven time in and time out that it's a chemical imbalance. I firmly believe that homosexuality has to do with a hormone imbalance, not something someone decides one day.

LoL

That, right there makes you sound like an idiot. Don't use "Lol".

We are 96% similar to a most primates in this world.

Yes, they too have arms and thumbs. That's about it. Find me a monkey that gets angry after his baseball team loses in the ALCS. My point is (I'm saying this because I think you'll miss it) that animals, even though they breath and walk, don't have the mental capacity like we do. You don't see dogs with Down's syndrome, you don't see cats with Alzheimers, and you don't see monkeys who care about baseball. We have brain capacity that they don't have. Just because we're all in the animal kingdom doesn't mean we have interchangeable parts.

Logical has never made blasted thing in this world right. If logical make things right than you have the mentality of 5 yr old. The point was that hate doesnt make hate right. I find homosexuals very hypocritical people. "People shouldn't hate people. Then they say I hate people that dont accept me." That is total BS. Martin Luther King, Jr. (you know the major guy in blacks civil rights movement) he promoted that everyone should get along and be equals. Speaking of civil rights, If you dont believe me on the fact that people feel sorry for gays and are against christians on this battle. Then google Christian Hate Crime Bill. First off everyone has a freedom to religion. Second of all if a christian is following the bible as it says to the T, than they do not hate homosexuals. The bible specifically tells the CHRISTIANS TO LOVE THE SINNER, and HATE THE SIN. This means that they can live peacefully with sinners, does not mean they have to approve the sin. Anyways how did anyone coddling your civil rights get brought into this.

If I'm correct, you have probably never experienced what it's like to be a minority. You probably don't know what real racism is like and what it's like to be hated (Like many other races, gays, etc). If I'm guessing right, just based off your writing patterns, you're probably no older than a 14 year old. You talk about how gays are hypocritical by hating people, yet I doubt you would have ever had to "turn the other cheek" to anything and preach forgiveness or tolerance. You have no room judging people by saying "Well they shouldn't hate any of those people back, they're hypocrites." Gay people and minorities live in a world where they are practically shunned; respect their reaction as natural human emotion.

Also, the Bible may preach tolerance and forgiveness, but that doesn't mean churchgoers and Christians followed everything to a T (I doubt many of them do). Just look at the south during the 60's; I'm sure many Ku Klux Klan members went to church too. Look at the Quran of Islam, they preach peace and tolerance towards all, yet there are extremists groups all over the Middle East and there's oppression of women. Just because it's in religious text doesn't mean that it will be followed.

Sean O: Learn how to spell and use proper grammar before attempting to act like you know of what you speak. You just come off looking worse than you would otherwise; an impressive feat given your statements.

I concur

[itmike]

Animals may not have the intelligence level of humans, but to say they are pure instincts is stupid. Instincts you are born with, everything else is learned behavior from life experiences. If this was true than my dogs could not possibly sit, lay, rollover, or anything Ive trained them to do. That would be learned behavior and not instincts. To say animals have no emotion is very stupid as well. My yellow lab is very emotionally attached to me. He has slept in my room since he was pup and refuses to sleep anywhere else at night. I live with 3 other people in my house any of them leave he is fine to lay beside me. If I leave it tears him up he will run through the house looking at the windows and going to the doors. The bad thing is this eventually leads to destruction of my house as he chews the blinds and anything else he wants to put his mouth. I have to put him in the kennel outside when I leave now. My brother that has a Chihuahua that will shake and whine when we pull into the veterinarians office. Oh and she only goes once a year. I was using the word lovefests to keep it clean. Animals suffer from epilepsy and other mental problems. Though diagnosing Alzheimers in the animal kingdom would be very hard unless your a Dr. Dolittle.

LoL- Im sorry from now on I will keep acronyms to 2 letters for your mental capacity.

It has became very popular to say that chemical imbalance causes depression. It does not, chemical imbalances is caused by your actions and emotions. ALL emotional responses have a chemical consequence. When we laugh, for example, there is a greater amount of chemical endorphins (natural painkillers) released into the blood stream. Endorphins do not cause laughter however, they are a consequence of it. This was took from http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/faq/chemical.htm

Now I believe if certain chemicals in the brain get out of whack due to our emotions and actions, it can cause symptoms of depression such as sleeplessness, appetite loss. Now I believe drugs can correct chemical imbalances but that person still needs help to accept themselves and the situations in their lives. If they do not get peace where they are at in life they will need the drugs once again after the imbalance returns due to their actions and emotions. I never said that we had interchangeable parts with animals.

Im really tired of giving rebuttals to posts that offer no proof to the fact that your born with a sexual preference. You give me proof as said before I will happily believe. I'm sorry if I don't believe the hot theory of the day. You say I dont know what it is for me to be a minority. You try not believing every new hot theory of the day that most of society eats up.

[UncleMo]

You both look bad when you're insulting eachother.

[DJEagles]

This thread will not end well...

[el_jefe061]

Animals may not have the intelligence level of humans, but to say they are pure instincts is stupid...

Fine, animals also have learned behavior. Just because someone's Shelty or whatever sleeps in their room doesn't mean they have true emotions. It's learned survival behavior because you're the one that has been "protecting" the animal in one form or another. The animal has an attachment because of their natural instincts of protection, who's protecting them, giving them food, etc. That's not emotion, much less the complex emotion of human beings. Also, you missed the point entirely that animals do NOT have anything that is nearly as complex as humans. Emotions, vocabulary (words they recognize and don't recognize), and overall cognitive abilities. Not JUST emotions.

LoL- Im sorry from now on I will keep acronyms to 2 letters for your mental capacity.

Have you heard the term "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?" If you haven't in your 12 years, it means that stupid people shouldn't go off and call people stupid. It's obvious that I (And Sean O, and probably others) have picked up on the fact that your writing ability is not up to par. I was trying to stray away from calling you an idiot, but I'm going to say it right now. You're a retard. Also, for further knowledge, I was advising you not to use the term LOL because it makes you sound gay, or at the very least feminine. I don't know what it is, it just makes someone sound like a homosexual. I did not want to come right out and say this, especially considering the subject matter.

It has became very popular to say that chemical imbalance causes depression. It does not, chemical imbalances is caused by your actions and emotions...

True, you have a point, but you're not entirely correct. Certain people have a greater likelihood to be clinically depressed, they already have a chemical imbalance before they're clinically depressed. In certain families (like mine), depression is something with a family history because of these chemical imbalances.

However, depression is neither here nor there. I was using depression as an example of chemical imbalances, not my main point. We could talk about depression all day, as it is such a complex subject, but back to what we were talking about.

I never said that we had interchangeable parts with animals.

You were implying the we (The Animal Kingdom) are all cut from the same cloth. It's not true, the mental capacity that humans have blows every other species out of the water; when I was referring to "interchangeable parts" I meant mentally. I did not mean that I thought you meant that we can just swap pig parts with human parts.

Im really tired of giving rebuttals to posts that offer no proof to the fact that your born with a sexual preference. You give me proof as said before I will happily believe. I'm sorry if I don't believe the hot theory of the day.

You have a point, but it is a two way street. You have given no proof that it is something you decide from birth. You cannot say "Well this guy had a girlfriend before he had a boyfriend" because of the psychological confusion that goes on in the mind of a homosexual. The fear that would accompany someone with coming out is something neither of us know, so it's hard to say either way unless you were the person.

Think about this: Do you think that Reverend Ted Haggard just randomly decided one day to be gay or engage in homosexual activities? One of the most famous conservatives in America gets caught doing gay things, and as someone who preaches against gays, do you think he would suddenly change his mind? Or do you think it was something he was hiding his whole life, something he was in denial over?

The one thing about addressing the situation with gays is that most of the people who are talking about aren't gay. If you're gay, wouldn't you know if you were born that way or not? Shouldn't we be able to trust the source?

[itmike]

I too have a feeling that this thread is going to end badly.

Yes I may not write very well, but I write as I think. So, It may not be English paper grade. The ";' and other punctuation, well Im lazy sorry. I use periods out of politeness.

Just because you have increased likelihood for a chemical imbalance something still has to set it off. The pills may correct this problem, but to truly to get to the point of a cure. You will have to solve the root of the problem. Pills just treat the symptoms.

Now that I think about it, animal parts are interchangeable, a bunch of people have had their lives saved by pig kidneys. http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/596_xeno.html.

We are made up of the same cloth. All living things have DNA. DNA in all animals are made up of 4 bases. The four bases found in DNA are adenine (abbreviated A), cytosine ©, guanine (G) and thymine (T) Depending on the order of the bases and the way they attach to sugar/phosphates, decides what species results. Much like cotton can be woven into a bed sheet, t-shirt, or table cloth.

Too think that humans are the only species with the capacity of emotion and higher levels of thought is very narrow minded. Clinical Depression has been evidenced in an experiment though in my opinion is cruel.

The classic experiment for this was Martin Seligman's foundational experiments and theory of learned helplessness at the University of Pennsylvania in 1965, as an extension of his interest in depression:

A dog that had earlier been repeatedly conditioned to associate a sound with electric shocks did not try to escape the electric shocks after the warning was presented, even though all the dog would have had to do is jump over a low divider within ten seconds, more than enough time to respond. The dog didn't even try to avoid the "aversive stimulus"; it had previously "learned" that nothing it did mattered. A follow-up experiment involved three dogs affixed in harnesses included one that received shocks of identical intensity and duration to the others, but the lever which would otherwise have allowed the dog a degree of control was left disconnected and didn't do anything. The first two dogs quickly recovered from the experience, but the third dog suffered chronic symptoms of clinical depression as a result of this perceived helplessness.

Is it possible that Ted Haggard had a homosexual experience as a teen, continued to be homosexual. Then saw a position that he could have power in a conservative group.

Why would I have to prove that it is decided at birth? I think thats your side of this debate. Even if genetics were to decide sexual preferences, homosexuals would have disappeared very early in the history of most animal species. As the Reed species of frog can change their sex, therefore a gay frog could still reproduce, if it still prefers the same sex after it changes its sex. Certainly after 10 million years of genetic selection would have led to their demise. If your wondering where 10 million years came from in that sentence. That is when the earliest evidence of human relatives have been found. This point in human history we were still very primal and instinctive based, so coming out would not have been a big deal.

You must be a very trusting person. I dont trust this defense for being homosexual. I have an overbite. My favorite defense in school for my overbite was I was born with this. Sometimes it helped other times it didnt. I have photographic proof to that so lets not start that debate.

Though I know this will just lead to yet another rebuttal with no substance. Please refrain from insults, and flaming its very pointless as I do not care what you think about me. Trust me I went through a lot of crap through school for an overbite I have, and anything you can write on this board will not phase me. This debate is very interesting to me and Im actually waiting for someone to prove me wrong with proof. If you cant supply proof please do not respond.

I think it is amazing that by a post on the internet you can tell my age, sexual orientation, and that Im part of a majority and not a minority.

[SeanRobinson]

Well some people are just intuitive like that. ;-)

I find it intriguing how this is a baseball website, yet in the past two weeks we've had extensive discussions first on Christianity and the nature/existence of G-d, and now on sexuality.

[sexydarin]

Gays aren't born gay, they are taught it. Explain to me how teenage girls, straight since birth, change to bi or gay during teenage years or later. They weren't born that way, they were taught the wrong thing during adolescence. Homos are just another sexual perversion. Get in the sexual deviancy line. Love Anne Coulter, hate stupid *** leftists.

[el_jefe061]

Just because you have increased likelihood for a chemical imbalance something still has to set it off. The pills may correct this problem, but to truly to get to the point of a cure. You will have to solve the root of the problem. Pills just treat the symptoms.

The increased likelihood IS the chemical imbalance. If you have an increased likelihood, that's because you chemicals are imbalanced. You wouldn't have that likelihood if your chemicals weren't imbalanced.

Animal parts...

That's over simplifying things. Yes, I've heard about the pig kidney. However, we can't just use the exact same biology from different animals.

Every species is too different to lump everything up. You can't just compare the dominant species on Earth to cotton. If human biology were this simple and we could take parts from animals regularly (like you're suggesting) then there would be no waiting lists for livers, hearts, or any other vital organ. Also, you do not need to give me a lesson on Biology. I know about amino acids, bases, etc. You're not a biology teacher.

Too think that humans are the only species with the capacity of emotion and higher levels of thought is very narrow minded. Clinical Depression has been evidenced in an experiment though in my opinion is cruel.

Many animals to SOME POINT have an emotional capacity. My point (which you've been missing) is there they're no where close to where humans are. They don't have COMPLEX emotions.

The classic experiment for this was Martin Seligman's foundational experiments and theory of learned helplessness at the University of Pennsylvania in 1965, as an extension of his interest in depression:

You're being misleading. The experiment is a major basis for psychology, and although it can cause depression, they do not necessarily go hand in hand. In the case of the dogs, it's a sophisticated case of training. The broad generalization that learned helplessness in dogs proves that dogs suffer the same depression as humans is unwarranted. Yes, dogs have emotions to some point, but their emotions are not based off of actions but from training.

As much as I'd love to talk about my dog's affinity for Kibbles N' Bits, we were on the subject of gays and Ann Coulter. We're straying off into a tangent and I feel like we're going to end up on a discussion about "Why Teal looks bad on Shar-Pei's"

Is it possible that Ted Haggard had a homosexual experience as a teen, continued to be homosexual. Then saw a position that he could have power in a conservative group.

That's always a possibility, but you're not handed the reins to a multi-million dollar church overnight. The likelihood is he was raised that way and is a very passionate Christian, he just HAPPENS to be gay.

That's just one example, however. What about Davis from the Real World Denver? He's gay and from a Southern Baptist family in the South. Would he have any benefit being Gay, especially if his family thinks it's wrong? Also, if it's a learned behavior, how is he learning this in a strict, Southern Baptist home? I doubt they TiVo the L Word or have Brokeback Mountain on DVD.

Why would I have to prove that it is decided at birth? I think thats your side of this debate.

I'm not telling you to prove it's from birth, I'm telling you to prove it's a learned behavior.

Even if genetics were to decide sexual preferences, homosexuals would have disappeared very early in the history of most animal species. As the Reed species of frog can change their sex, therefore a gay frog could still reproduce, if it still prefers the same sex after it changes its sex. Certainly after 10 million years of genetic selection would have led to their demise. If your wondering where 10 million years came from in that sentence. That is when the earliest evidence of human relatives have been found. This point in human history we were still very primal and instinctive based, so coming out would not have been a big deal.

Now you're comparing frogs to humans? Not only do frogs have completely different traits, their ability to change sexes in an adaptation (Although I'm diggin the Jurassic Park reference. Heavy stuff). First of all, frogs don't have intercourse. Second of all, we're not in the same order. Third, since frogs don't have intercourse, they don't have sexual orientations. Better example, please.

Also, I'm sure the cro magnon weren't developed enough to have sexual orientations. It was at the earliest stages of survival of the fittest, and I'm sure sex for pleasure was a relatively miniscule thing.

You must be a very trusting person. I dont trust this defense for being homosexual. I have an overbite. My favorite defense in school for my overbite was I was born with this. Sometimes it helped other times it didnt. I have photographic proof to that so lets not start that debate.

Uh, I don't see how you can pick out that I'm a trusting person. That's a personality trait, you can hardly pick something like that out form this. When I made the assertion that you're a 12 year old because of your poor writing skills. I don't see what trust has to do with homosexuality. Also, I don't care about your bad teeth, and I see no reason why this is relevant, much like your mentioning of the frogs.

Though I know this will just lead to yet another rebuttal with no substance. Please refrain from insults, and flaming its very pointless as I do not care what you think about me. Trust me I went through a lot of crap through school for an overbite I have, and anything you can write on this board will not phase me. This debate is very interesting to me and Im actually waiting for someone to prove me wrong with proof. If you cant supply proof please do not respond.

Over the course of your posts, you in no way have given any proof that:

*Homosexuality is a learned behavior

*Dogs or any other animals have higher cognitive abilities

*The likelihood of getting depression is on a level playing field

However, I will give it to you, I also have proven nothing. But, I have made common sense assertions that homosexuality is not learned and more people are more likely to get depression than others. The animal issue, well nothing can convince me that animals have HIGHER (I emphasize higher because I know you're going to link me to some Wikipedia article about how dogs get sad. I'm talking about the genuine, complex, human like emotions) cognitive ability. Unless you find me definitive proof that animals have emotional capabilities that come close to humans, this discussion will go nowhere. We should get back to what we were talking about anyway.

Think about this:

*If homosexuality is a learned behavior, how do you have Southern Baptist males who are gay?

*If clinical depression is not caused initially by a chemical imbalance, why do some people have family histories of depression? Why did one third, not all, of those dogs figure a way out of the experiment?

I think it is amazing that by a post on the internet you can tell my age, sexual orientation, and that Im part of a majority and not a minority.

You're taking things out of context. First, I said I can tell your age by your writing skills. Generally, people who are older use apostrophes and periods and commas better (Spelling, however, is not a barometer of intelligence). Second, I asserted that you were a minority due to your lack of empathy towards the feelings of minorities. Your quick reactions to the ill feelings of gays towards others shows that you've never been a minority and don't know how hard it is to forgive those who are intolerant. Last, I never said you were a homosexual. I was just pointing out that the acronym "LoL" is very effeminate. Maybe I crossed the line in saying that it was a Gay term. I did say that it made you SOUND like a homosexual, not that you were. Maybe I should have just left it at effeminate.

Gays aren't born gay, they are taught it. Explain to me how teenage girls, straight since birth, change to bi or gay during teenage years or later. They weren't born that way, they were taught the wrong thing during adolescence. Homos are just another sexual perversion. Get in the sexual deviancy line. Love Anne Coulter, hate stupid **** leftists.

Also, I apologize to itmike if I have offended you, as this person is clearly much dumber.

[duckdodger215]

Gays aren't born gay, they are taught it. Explain to me how teenage girls, straight since birth, change to bi or gay during teenage years or later. They weren't born that way, they were taught the wrong thing during adolescence. Homos are just another sexual perversion. Get in the sexual deviancy line. Love Anne Coulter, hate stupid **** leftists.

it's just spring break and partying and such, boss. they know guys like it when they do that, so they do it for attention. if they're hot, tho, i wish they'd take videos and pictures. if not, i don't care :)

[medric822]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4hacmvSPaI...ch=adam+corolla

More people need to handle her like this

OMFG! I nearly pissed myself laughing! That was the highlight of my day after staying up to 1:30 AM watching the Yankees loose to Boston.

[itmike]

Im going to end this as an agreement to disagree. There has not been enough research to prove either of our points. There is still tons of research still ongoing on most of the subjects that were debating. They are highly controversial subjects for the most part. I understand if you feel that your higher than another organism. I do not feel this way we are made from the same raw genetic make up, so why should we be so high and mighty to be the only ones gifted with complex emotions. I got the trusting person assertion from the "Shouldnt we trust the source?". I have to have facts to trust something. I am the type that if you cant prove it I will not believe it. Common sense assertions are the equivalent of assumptions. We all know what assume makes out of you and me. Neither of us are qualified to really be debating either of these things. Unless you have the masters in Psychology and Physiology. We can just run to links on the internet and refer to our limited past experiences on these subjects. Which is pointless as we will continue in circles. I do not trust assumptions or theories. I only trust things that have been proven and are repeatable. You will trust your assumptions for example, since Cro magnum was so long ago he couldnt possibly have sexual orientation and sexual pleasure was miniscule. I wonder if he had sexual orientation, which he did he had to mate, unlike the frogs that dont have sex he does, therefore giving him a sexual orientation. Back to the point, I would have said I wonder if they had sex as just a survival tool or for both pleasure and survival. See I wasnt there and there is no solid evidence pointing in either direction, therefore Im left wondering. It has been proven that animals engage in homosexual behavior for fun. Its linked in one of my posts youll have to look on the second page sexual gratification. My life and this thread would probably be alot simpler if I just believed assumptions and hot theories of the day, but I dont. Though I believe it made this a whole lot more interesting.

Just to clear my points up:

I wasnt comparing human biology to cotton, it was an analogy. DNA makes up different organisms, cotton makes up different products. Youve made so many assumptions for examples, That I thought a person was handed the reigns to multi-million dollar church overnight, youre sure that cro magnum did not have sexual orientation, you assume there is no way that a Southern Baptist could possibly learn to be gay. Why these assumptions are possibly wrong or narrow minded. Yes, it took time but he could have easily planned to lure people to follow him. Some people know how to use people to their advantage. If cro magnum had to mate, did he not have to have sex giving him a sexual orientation. The frogs dont have sexual orientation because they dont have sexual intercourse remember. This is a big world, information is able to be traded within seconds across this world. It's not that hard to find possibilities that he could learn about homosexuality. I mean do you really think that when humans arrived on the scene all of sudden we brought along complex emotion. I brought up my bad teeth to show that the "I was born that way" is a popular and easy defense. About the frogs mating look up on google image frog mating.

Im sorry that we came to a deadlock on these issues, I wish one of us could have offered proof that they was right. The world will be a better place when most of these issues are solved with scientific law and not theory.

Again Im lazy when it comes to using proper punctuation. The whole punctuation thing is really over rated anyways.

SeanRobinson

Yes, I enjoy a good debate, especially over something controversial where both sides are respected. I see nothing wrong with it.

El_Jefe

Even though this did get a little heated. I hope I have said nothing that offended you as a person. I hope we can continue to contribute to the forums in future debates be it baseball or somewhere in left field. Hopefully they wont all end in deadlocks and remain civil.

[SeanRobinson]

Oh I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with it, I'm just fascinated that it inevitably happens.

And that's all I'll contribute to this particular discussion.