Total Classics 7 Released!

[Homer]

you know, i've run into this problem every once in awhile too. i've found that on my end at least, that often times it's because there was something a little off about the index file. and i noticed that this face was exactly as i suspected. so i just edited to what usually fixes it for me. hope i'm not overstepping my boundaries here

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C7SGQLW7

[tywiggins]

If that's the case then it means that we set the trajectories the same for those left-handed pitchers who throw 4-seam fastballs (for good or bad).

On the '77 Yankees roster, Guidry has two pitches, a fastball and a slider. The fastball has a movement of 1 and a 1-7 trajectory. Look at this clock face:

Imagine that you are a batter looking at a pitcher. You can see how for a right hand batter, a 1-7 trajectory breaks down and in on a right handed batter. Changing this setting to something different would affect how the pitch breaks (or doesn't break if you select "None" for the trajectory). In addition, changing the Movement setting would adjust the amount of break.

In this game, 4-seam fastball trajectories can only be 0 or 1. I believe in most cases it should be 0. I believe Totte, KG, and SS always use "None" or 0 for 4-seam fastball trajectory.

[Jim825]

In this game, 4-seam fastball trajectories can only be 0 or 1. I believe in most cases it should be 0. I believe Totte, KG, and SS always use "None" or 0 for 4-seam fastball trajectory.

When you say that the trajectories "can only be 0 or 1", are you actually talking about Movement? The screenshot below shows that for fastballs, you can set the trajectory to any setting you want. You can see that there is no asterisk next to any of the trajectory values (which indicates that none of the trajectories are invalid)

[tywiggins]

When you say that the trajectories "can only be 0 or 1", are you actually talking about Movement? The screenshot below shows that for fastballs, you can set the trajectory to any setting you want. You can see that there is no asterisk next to any of the trajectory values (which indicates that none of the trajectories are invalid)

Actually, both 4-seam fastball trajectories and movement can only be 0 or 1. Trust me. When you start a season, if either of those two values are larger than 1, they get set to 1 in the game's memory. (Each of those two values is stored in 1 bit of memory)

[stecropper]

Interesting discussion about the trajectory settings for the 4-Seam Fastball. I know in the game's create a player you can only set Control & Velocity for the Fastball whereas for pitches 2-5 you can set all 4 ratings including Movement & Trajectory.

That is why I normally go with "0" for Movement & "None" for Trajectory for a pitcher's fastball ratings.

However, we always hear about a pitcher having either a moving, sinking, rising, running or tailing Fastball. So sometimes if any of these are referred to in the Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers Book I go ahead and set the trajectory to such. Never thinking it really had any impact in the actual trajectory for the fastball in the game anyway.

This is something I really would like to understand. From what tywiggins is saying, and I certainly don't doubt him in the least, that if it is set to anything other than "None" in MVPEdit (which I assume ='s a "0" setting in the game) then it is actually set to "Little" (which I assume ='s a "1" setting in the game.

Thus, I still wonder if in fact if set to "1" in the game does the 4-Seamer actually have any movement to it at all & if so, what trajectory does it move.

Thanks for the discussion,

Don

[Jim825]

Here are the pitch trajectory values inside the MVPEdit config.txt file:

'Pitch Description


0,None


1,3-9: Little


2,2-8: Slight


3,1-7: Some


4,12-6: Drop 


5,11-5: Vertical


6,10-4: Horizontal


7,9-3: Sinking

It does sound like the value is either None or Little.

Don - Just as an FYI, I opened up the .mbe file for the 1967 season mod and searched for all Major League pitchers with a fastball trajectory not equal to "None". It listed 146 names. I looked at a number of them and there were many different trajectory settings.

[stecropper]

Jim825,

Yes that would be correct if you looked at the entire .mbe file for '67. That is because all the NON '67 clubs such as the Rockies; D'Backs; Blue Jays; Royals; Padres etc all have Trajectory set in every Pitchers Fastball Rating because that was the way I did it back when I created those teams which were part of my Late '60s Roster Set produced long ago. Those teams are just in there for compliance and were not tweaked to the degree the 20 Teams that actually played in '67 were.

If you look on those 20 Teams that actually played in '67 you will find a couple to a few on each Team that have a Trajectory set for their fastball because that was done due to them having some sort of moving fastball according to the Neyer/James book. But the vast majority of those Pitchers are set to "None".

Not that I think it matters a whole lot as tywiggins says because anything other than "None" should be set to "1" anyway which is "Little".

Don

[Jim825]

Hi Don,

That makes sense. Now that TC7 is out, I'm back to working on the '78 season mod. This discussion came along at the right time since I'm currently assigning the correct pitch types and trajectories to each pitcher. Using a combination of Baseball Mogul 2007 (thanks for telling me about this!) and the Neyer / James book, the pitch types should be very accurate. Once that's done, the majority of the roster work should be done.

[Darkslide820]

Oh come on! I'm not stupid. I know damn well what is meant by the pitch trajectory. I don't need a lesson on what a 12-6 means.

I was asking if these pitcher's 4-FB are SUPPOSED to be moving, like they were set in MVPedit, or if they just happen to be moving by some glitch. I never asked what a 1-7 trajectory meant.

If all these pitcher's 4-FB were set to have a trajectory, just say so. Don't go on trying to teach me what trajectory is. I just find it odd that every single pitcher I've tried out so far has a moving 4-FB.

BTW, I tried giving Mordecai Brown (in regular MVP 2005, not TC) a 4-FB that acted like a cutter (dropping 10-4), but when I tried it in-game it did not go that direction; instead, it moved 2-8. Has anyone here set a 4-FB that DOES move from left to right?

Also, I'm using MVPedit2006_2, and my interface looks different from the one you guys posted. Is there a newer version I should be using?

And, yeah, I had the same problem Yankee4Life had one game. Scott Brosius and Chad Curtis both had the red/green text message looking face.

[Homer]

you need to watch your tone if you ever want to get some help around here, because all they are doing is trying to help you. and on the side, they are also having technical discussions with each other trying to figure this out. so heaven forbid if your issue also helps someone else along the way.

no one here is calling you stupid, but you can't possibly expect them to know what your level of expertise is on this. so don't jump to such an irrational conclusion that they're calling you stupid when all they're doing is trying to help. if you really know everything so well, don't bother asking.

maybe it's not my place to interject, but it's very irritating to watch someone react that way when they are being helped. you need to realize that.

jeez. the nerve of some people. what's the deal with the attitude like this lately? it's like the plague around here this week.

[stecropper]

No problem homer813 ..... actually "Thanks" for interjecting on that response. After reading it earlier I just backed out of this thread because if I had responded I would have not been nearly as polite as you were.

It truly amazed me .......... well maybe in this day and time perhaps it shouldn't have but at least now I know to just ignore any future postings from such a self serving source.

[Sidewinder]

Hey guys, interesting topic here. Does the arm/wrist angle matter in MVP on the ball movement? I would think a Pitcher who throws straight overhand would have less(or none) movement on a 4 seamer, than a guy that drops down and has more natural movement, especially horizontally. This was my experience during my playing days. Does it work that way in MVP?

Thanks again guys for all your hard work on MVP. Great job!

[Jim825]

Oh come on! I'm not stupid. I know damn well what is meant by the pitch trajectory. I don't need a lesson on what a 12-6 means.

I was asking if these pitcher's 4-FB are SUPPOSED to be moving, like they were set in MVPedit, or if they just happen to be moving by some glitch. I never asked what a 1-7 trajectory meant.

If all these pitcher's 4-FB were set to have a trajectory, just say so. Don't go on trying to teach me what trajectory is. I just find it odd that every single pitcher I've tried out so far has a moving 4-FB.

It was not my intention to make you feel stupid. If you've read any of the 1100+ posts I've made, you'll see that I never talk down to people. If anything, I do my best to provide as much information as possible to make sure that there is no confusion in what I'm saying. If someone still does not understand, I will provide more information or PM them to talk with them 1 on 1. All I was trying to do was help, since I had no idea what your knowledge level was. I guess I'll have to think twice before doing it next time....

To answer your question, not all of the pitchers in Total Classics with 4-seam fastballs have movements > 0 or trajectories other than "None". Of course, all it would have taken is a few minutes for you to look at the rosters yourself to verify that, rather than berating us for not answering your questions to your satisfaction.

BTW, I tried giving Mordecai Brown (in regular MVP 2005, not TC) a 4-FB that acted like a cutter (dropping 10-4), but when I tried it in-game it did not go that direction; instead, it moved 2-8. Has anyone here set a 4-FB that DOES move from left to right?

As Ty said in an earlier post, the trajectory of the 4-seam fastball is stored in memory as 1 bit, so the value will be 0 or 1 (NOTE -- I'm not talking down to you here). What you're seeing does seem confusing, since according to the config.txt values for pitch trajectory (see an earlier post I made), 0 = no movement, 1 = 3 - 9: Little.

Also, I'm using MVPedit2006_2, and my interface looks different from the one you guys posted. Is there a newer version I should be using?

I use the older 2005.4 version of MVPEdit, since I never installed any patches higher than patch #2.

And, yeah, I had the same problem Yankee4Life had one game. Scott Brosius and Chad Curtis both had the red/green text message looking face.

I get this every now and then, but luckily for me, it happens very rarely.

[Darkslide820]

Jim, thank you for your responses. Please just get where I'm coming from: I never asked for a lesson on what trajectory was; I was asking why everyone threw with a moving 4-FB. That's why I got a little ticked off.

Homer: I know I'm still relatively new here, but I figured that by reading all my posts it would be noted by now that I never get mad at people. You've helped me out in a number of threads and I was very gracious. I would rather you not include me as "some people," as I'm not the kind of person that gets p*ssed off at the people who try to help me.

if you really know everything so well, don't bother asking

I never asked about pitch trajectory, and I don't act like I know all the technical computer stuff; that's why I ask.

[Homer]

I don't act like I know all the technical computer stuff; that's why I ask.

exactly why they answered the questions like they did. if you haven't noticed, these guys are highly respected members around here because they are so thorough with the help they provide. sometimes you need to wait out the answer because they need time to figure it out also.

Jim, thank you for your responses. Please just get where I'm coming from: I never asked for a lesson on what trajectory was; I was asking why everyone threw with a moving 4-FB. That's why I got a little ticked off.

still no excuse to act that way around here. EVER. and the answers provided aren't just intended for the person asking. there are also plenty of people reading this who may not know.

Homer: I know I'm still relatively new here, but I figured that by reading all my posts it would be noted by now that I never get mad at people.

your past actions don't give you brownie points. you still need to act like a decent person around and give them the respect they deserve.

I would rather you not include me as "some people," as I'm not the kind of person that gets p*ssed off at the people who try to help me.

but that's exactly how you posted. and that's exactly how it came off. if it was not intentional, then an apology would be a good start. either way, you need to be more careful with your word selection, if that's what all the fuss is really about.

i don't like labeling anyone around here for any reason (unless it's good). and i haven't labeled you, i'm just merely pointing out the fact that you were way over the line on this.

[Darkslide820]

Ok. MY BAD!

Back :ontopic:

So, um, would it be a true statement to say that most pitchers in TC7 were given some sort of movement on their 4-FB?

[Jim825]

Just did a search of the TC7 rosters. Here are the numbers:

1292 total pitchers

370 pitchers have fastball trajectories not equal to "None"

351 pitchers have fastball movements greater than 0

Therefore, it appears that only about 1/4 of the pitchers have fastballs with movement on them. That should about wrap up this discussion.

[Darkslide820]

Yes, it does. That's what I wanted to know. Thanks, Jim.

[Homer]

all drama aside, let me know if anyone else runs across this texture problem with anymore cyberfaces. i'm uploading the fixes to AT.

[Darkslide820]

You mean the red/green thing? Sign me up.

Oh yeah! I can't believe I forgot this. I played with Jimmie Foxx (1929 A's) in a HR Showdown, and his face was sideways. Anyone else have this?

[Jim825]

You mean the red/green thing? Sign me up.

Oh yeah! I can't believe I forgot this. I played with Jimmie Foxx (1929 A's) in a HR Showdown, and his face was sideways. Anyone else have this?

I just checked the rosters and it appears that the "04 face" flag is set correctly for Foxx on the '29 A's. It's set to "No", when it should really be set to "Yes", as it is for him on the '41 Red Sox and the MVP Legends team.

You can easily fix this by opening up the roster in MVPEdit and changing this one attribute.

[paulw]

Jim, thank you for your responses. Please just get where I'm coming from: I never asked for a lesson on what trajectory was; I was asking why everyone threw with a moving 4-FB. That's why I got a little ticked off.

Homer: I know I'm still relatively new here, but I figured that by reading all my posts it would be noted by now that I never get mad at people. You've helped me out in a number of threads and I was very gracious. I would rather you not include me as "some people," as I'm not the kind of person that gets p*ssed off at the people who try to help me.

I never asked about pitch trajectory, and I don't act like I know all the technical computer stuff; that's why I ask.

Hyno (i.e. Chris) is this you? You've certainly entered MVPMods with a bang! It sure *sounds* like you. I hope you're enjoying Total Classics. These guys are the nicest, most-considerate, dedicated group of people I've ever come across on the web (as an analogy the EXACT opposite of K. McHale). BTW - I noticed you've mentioned a ball going under the wall in the right field corner in Classic Yankee in your review of Classics. Occasionaly stuff like this will happen - moving fences in ballparks is about as difficult a thing I've ever had to do. No matter how hard you try and how much you test stuff still happens. Combined, I would guess Sean and I spent easily over 500 hours on this project - the main purpose of which was to share it with these wonderful folks at TC.

Anyhow, I know you wouldn't be making some of your comments unless you didn't like Total Classics. I know your just trying to help - sometimes posts just "don't come across" right. Hyno - if this *is* you I want to share something with you about McHale. I'd rather do it *outside* of the TW community.

[Darkslide820]

Sorry. I don't know who Hyno or Chris are.

And I do like Total Classics. I've brought up many technical nuances in case they weren't noticed by the modders. I'm not doing it as some sort of criticism.

[jhanke]

not sure if this is the place to ask this, but is anyone else having a problem downloading the file? I get hung up at 240 MB everytime i try to dl it. it says it is a 357(or so) sized file and gets stuck. i need a smart person's help here

thanks

Edit, ok i got it now, had to dl it to my kids pc and then transfer the file. that was strange

[paulw]

Sorry. I don't know who Hyno or Chris are.

And I do like Total Classics. I've brought up many technical nuances in case they weren't noticed by the modders. I'm not doing it as some sort of criticism.

I just double-checked something and I thought it really was Hyno. I'm wrong.

I spent an hour today banging balls into right field at Yankee - probably a hundred or so. I didn't have any problems but by using another way to test collision data there may be a seam out there that could occasionally cause a problem. If *anyone* is having strange stuff happen at Classic Yankee please let me know. I'd like to try and fix it - I don't think I can but you never know. Also I did a quick texture makeover today on it while I was looking around - I almost have the lighting where I want it.

For the folks at TC7 some of the new faces are really, really nice. Love the new audio also. So cool...so very, very cool.