BigDaddyCool Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 This is to decide who to put on the NL All-Star roster for our All-Timer roster project. Write-in candidates are also welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhall Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 This is a no brainer. Honus Wagner is considered to be the greatest shortstop of all time by almost all baseball historians. FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Honus Wagner. As a side note, Tinkers, Evers and Chance all weren't all that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 i can't believe jeter isn't on there. now, i'm just f'ing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Wagner only had a .940 FPCT Larkin had a .975 Concepcion had a .971 and not nearly the hitter Larkin was Tinker had a .938 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Larkin: .295 .371 .444 Wagner: .327 .391 .466 And Honus played in the deadball era. For league-adjusted value, Wagner has a 150 OPS+, and Larkin has a 116. Concepcion's OPS+ is an abysmal 88, below league average. Reese is also below average at 99. Wagner's the only real answer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroEric Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Damn, guys. Enough with the stats already. Whatever happened to the days when you would vote for a guy based on whether he had a funny animal nickname? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 It's ok english teacher, the numbers won't hurt you. BTW, in searching for a witty english teacher joke, I ran across this: A little girl came home from school and said to her mother, "Mommy, today in school I was punished for something that I didn't do." The mother exclaimed, "But that's terrible! I'm going to have a talk with your teacher about this ... by the way, what was it that you didn't do?" The little girl replied, "My homework." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Larkin: .295 .371 .444 Wagner: .327 .391 .466 And Honus played in the deadball era. For league-adjusted value, Wagner has a 150 OPS+, and Larkin has a 116. Concepcion's OPS+ is an abysmal 88, below league average. Reese is also below average at 99. Wagner's the only real answer here. I know Larkin is not the best, but he was better than Concepcion who is a choice BTW Ernie Banks is the answer Better fielder at SS and a better run producer than wagner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhall Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 BTW Ernie Banks is the answer Better fielder at SS and a better run producer than wagner Wagner was the 2nd best defensive shortstop of all time next to Ozzie. Offense? His OPS + was 150 and Banks was 122. Wagner was a better hitter, fielder, and runner than Banks. Decisively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Banks was good, but not even close to Wagner. Wagner: .327 .391 .466 Banks: .274 .330 .500 50 points better than Banks in BA, 61 points in OBP. SLG is relatively the same, but come on, Wagner played when double digit homers were shocking. He was 1st in SLG 6 times (as a shortstop!). He was top 10 for homers for 11 seasons. He was also first in SBs 5 times, RBIs 5 times, XBH 7 times, and OPS+ 6 times. Banks was first in SLG once, was never up there in SBs or OBP, and led the league in homers 2 times. Also, Rate2 has him as a 107, with Banks at a 106. I don't know why I even found all that out, but it's good to know how great Wagner was. He was incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farkwhar Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Finally an appreciation for the old timers... Ahhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Wagner was 1st in SLG 6 times (as a shortstop!) Banks was first in SLG once You always spin stats, Wagner's career SLG was .416 while Banks was .500 Is it banks fault he played with better players around him? 50 points better than Banks in BA, 61 points in OBP. SLG is relatively the same so when Wagner has 50 point higher average and a 61 point better OBP it is good to point it out but when Banks has a 84 point advantage in SLG it is too close to mention? Spin baby spin just to give you an idea of how bad Wagner was in the field His career fielding percentage is .940, the worst SS in baseball in the field last season was Lopez with a .954. That is 14 point lower that the worse player in baseball last season you would have to double Banks total errors for is career to make his Fpct the same as Wagner's Yes he was that much better in the field and had a higher career SLG. Banks average 20 more bases per 162 games than Wagner to take Wagner over Banks is crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 kraw- Banks played with a solid, uniform, white baseball. Honus Wagner played with a dark, heavy, beanbag. Banks played on a well-manicured field, while Wagner played at a wooden ballpark whose fields flooded every spring. Wagner had tremendous range that allowed him to get to more balls, and you really think he should be penalized for that? Relative to the league, Wagner is dramatically better. When you adjust to league-average, which is why we have OPS+, Wagner is countless runs ahead. Even the most ardent Cubs fans wouldn't think Banks is close to Wagner, considering how similar their career lines are (Wagner higher in BA, Banks higher in SLG), it could be a tossup, but when you adjust for era, Wagner was unbelievable. Finally, in total WARP: Banks: 128.3 Wagner: 200.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc006 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Where is Arky Vaughn?! He's not #1, but he at least deserves to be on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroEric Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 This is the way I originally read this: Wagner had tremendous rage that allowed him to get to more balls HONUS WAGNER SMASH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc006 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Actually, I'm gonna give Arky some respect - Take one vote away from Wagner and replace it with Vaughn. How does Pee Wee Reese get a vote with a .269/.366/.377 line over .318/.406/.453? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxbjr Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 i'm not old enough to have seen banks play anything other then 1b. but you guys have convinced me, take 1 vote from ozzie and give it to banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 screw that, i want the hulk there now...can we put him on the board. try taking him out at second. i dare you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddyCool Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Write-in's at this point: Arky Vaughn: 1 I have to admit this one has me surprised. I thought that Ozzie would have run away with it at this point based on his defense alone. But to see Wagner in 1st place at this point and to see the voting so tight is really encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.