Dirtdog Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6871400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Unit Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Everyone and their mother knows Kevin Hench hates the Yankees. Freakin' A, he's admitted it in his blogs before. If he was on the Astros still, this article would not have been posted. Once again, read some of his stories about the Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender17 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 @ D-Unit: you have to admit though that Clemens-like other players of this so called "era" -has been a statistical anomaly. Someone in his mid 40s should not have been getting better regardless of the fact he was pitching in the NL and all those arguments about his record earlier being because he didn't care. That's a bunch of crap and if that is the case then he should not be allowed into the Hall of Fame. If he pitched like crap to prove a point to Boston and Toronto, then he is not differenty than Randy " I play when I want to" Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgbaseball Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kccitystar Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Ugh and nobody mentions Nolan Ryan completely raping MLB until he was 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender17 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Ugh and nobody mentions Nolan Ryan completely raping MLB until he was 45 *GASP* How dare you bring up the great Nolan Ryan with steroids! There is no way he took them! (take note of the excessive amounts of sarcasm) Honestly though I didn't bring him up because I didn't want to start a flame war over who did/didn't. But yes I agree with you that N.R. did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kccitystar Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 *GASP* How dare you bring up the great Nolan Ryan with steroids! There is no way he took them! (take note of the excessive amounts of sarcasm) Honestly though I didn't bring him up because I didn't want to start a flame war over who did/didn't. But yes I agree with you that N.R. did.I'm not saying he ever took steroids or anything but he did have an extensive workout regimen similar to Clemens, and if anything as Clemens got older he learned to take better care of his hamstrings which is why he's been able to extend his career to as long as he wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender17 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Oh I thought you were implying he is on the juice. His workout regimen might be better now than what it was but there is no way that just getting stronger legs leads to a better recovery time, all the innings he pitched with the Yankees (all their playoff series) would add up especially for someone with such a long career and his age. No way...everybody breaks down by the time they are 40 and he is still going... no way that is normal human recuperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kccitystar Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...t=.jsp&c_id=mlb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogar84 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Clemens does have a strenuous workout regiment. He's a power pitcher, separating him from Jamie Moyer (who could pitch till he's 50) and Glavine. But I would take John Smoltz over Clemens any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Give it up people, all this steroid BS should've run its course 3 years ago. Clemens is one of the 5 best pitchers in history by any reasonable consideration, pitching during the sports medicine era. People in their early-mid 40s have been dominant ever since Cy Young had a 2.53 era as a 43 year old in 1910. It has nothing to do with steroids, it has everything to do with him being supremely talented. As you get older, the body may decay, but the player gets smarter. Why do you think Bonds never swings outside of the strike zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxbjr Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Clemens also has the advantage of only playing half a season for the last few years. Not that I blame Clemens for that. If I was offered a deal where I pitch 15 - 18 games for abound 17mil, I'd take it, who wouldn't? But by limiting the wear and tear on his body, he extends his career by a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender17 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 @ KC, yeah I saw that article. Now it may be that Clemens is that statistical outlier that is separate from the rest of the group. But in my opinion, what has/is going on in baseball leaves each stastical anomaly up for argument. I am not trying to throw anyone under a bus by stating it, but from everything that has been going on I refuse to just accept what I see, and what I see is a 40+ pitcher who is just as dominant if not more than when he was a decade younger. Also for those that say just to accept it and move on, that is ridiculous. This whole sport is based off statistics, and not just those for the records, but everyday baseball judgements are made based off of 100 years of compiled numbers to compare current players to the average major league performance to determine whether a player is suited for a major league team. How do we say whether a player can handle making the leap from AAA to a pro team? We look at his OPS, AVG, ERA, WHIP, etc. No other sport uses past players' performance to determine future players' results. Once these numbers are skewed then we lose sense of who is a major league talent and who isn't. Imagine once this steroid bubble bursts how many teams are going to have farm systems filled with players with inflated numbers who no longer can perform at the major league level based off of their natural, God-given talents. It's gonna be real messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckdodger215 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred13 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 No other sport uses past players' performance to determine future players' results. Umm... actually, every sport does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogar84 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Lets go Pirates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender17 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Umm... actually, every sport does that. Which? The NFL uses the combine and game film, they don't draft a player based on his numbers to determine future performance. The NBA uses game tape and individual workouts. Greg Oden's field goal percentage has nothing to do with whether Portland is gnonna draft him #1, his workouts and college film will. No other sport uses number as extensively as baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogar84 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Funny Roger video in honor of his glorious return: http://ofallthedramaticthings.ytmnd.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superciuc Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 No way he uses steroids. You know, as a pitcher you can pitch until 50 if you are healthy. You don't run, you don't hit ( at least in the AL ), you just pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Umm... actually, every sport does that. I think he meant "Statistics of players from the past" not the "Past statistics of THIS player"... ...but that being said - I believe ALL sports do compare statistical data from current players vs statistical data of past players to help determine what type of player they might become... ...but baseball is, without a doubt, the most statistically analyzed sporting event in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_jefe061 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 First of all, pitchers can play very well into their 40's. He really isn't a "power" pitcher anymore, considering he really only hits about 93. Second of all, they mention him taking steroids after leaving Boston. Uh, excuse me, he was fat and lazy in his final years with Boston. His awe-inspiring, man crush inducing workout regimen didn't come back until he was motivated. Considering all of this, there's no reason to assert he's been on steroids... EXCEPT The fricken Grimsley Report. Even before Barry Bonds' BALCO testimony was leaked, everyone knew he was on steroids because his name was dropped in the case. Not to mention his astronomical stats increase, turning great numbers into inner circle numbers. Grimsley later stated there were "gross inadequacies" or something like that with the report, but who's to say that he wasn't just trying to cover his ***? Roger Clemens is pitcher past his prime, who (NL or not), has seen a large decrease in his ERA. Do I think Roger Clemens is on steroids or HGH? I'm not sure. If he was on HGH, it would've been in NY, and his numbers never were that impressive. One can attribute his stats in Houston to the NL and the fact he can come in whenever he wants and has a free membership to numerous Houston day spas. Pitchers, including power pitchers, have been shown to be able to pitch into their 40's. Nolan Ryan's numbers in his 40's are about on par with Clemens' in his 40's. My point is, you can't say for sure Roger Clemens did HGH or Steroids like Bonds, but he shouldn't be immune from talk or suspicion. Both had amazing years as they got older. Both have been mentioned in reports or affidavits or whatever involving steroids or HGH. The fact that Roger Clemens barely gets any attention for this is ridiculous. Is it because he's a pitcher? Is it because he's white? It definitely isn't because Bonds is a *****, because Clemens is a ***** too. Feel free to talk about Barry as much as you want, however, don't throw the notion out of your mind that Roger Clemens is as clean as they come. "OH MY GOOD GRACIOUS! ROGER CLEMENS IS BACK! ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superciuc Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 AL is tougher then NL so that's why his ERA was so low when he was with Houston. Believe me, i bet my house that his ERA will be higher this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_jefe061 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 AL is tougher then NL so that's why his ERA was so low when he was with Houston. Believe me, i bet my house that his ERA will be higher this year. I understand that. I also think the fact that he pitched whenever he felt like driving to work helped too. But this isn't the point. The point is this guy's name was mentioned by a known HGH user. Why the hell is Roger Clemens immune from any suspicion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superciuc Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 I understand that. I also think the fact that he pitched whenever he felt like driving to work helped too. But this isn't the point. The point is this guy's name was mentioned by a known HGH user. Why the hell is Roger Clemens immune from any suspicion? I didn't say that he's immune from any suspicious, i'm saying that he didn't need to take steroids and if he did take steroids he's just a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 At 33 he was was 10-13 finishing off a 4 years decline, he then left Boston and went to the Blue Jays, at which time his Wins and hat size sky rocketed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.