dumb person says Ichiro overrated, average

[Guest]

So baseball is all bout stats? Its people like you. who take steroids cuz all they think is bout STATS.

[Wolverineman]

Using that logic, lets find out some other intersting tidbits! Since OPS is all that matters, ya know. Lets see. Well, Juan Pierre is the 16th best CF in the game. Boy, is he overrated. Heck, Scott Podsednik is 24th best. I can easily think of 23 CFs I'd take over him :roll:. Carl Crawford is only the 20th best LF as well. He doesn't deserve the hype he gets either. Heck, Rondell White is way better than Crawford is. Edgar Renteria? He's only the 16th best SS and Cezar Izturis? 18th best SS. We all know Jose Valentin and Royce Clayton are much better SSs than Renteria and Izturis. :roll:

I could keep going for each position but I don't think its neccesary. OPS is a good stat to compare sluggers, but not to compare everyone. If Ichiro was batting 3rd or 4th and been known as as slugger and was 8th in OPS, I don't think anyone would be saying he should be MVP or is the best player at his position in the game right now. But thats not his game. OPS is not his game. Average is his game. Stealing bases is his game. Playing gold glove defense is his game. He does all that extremely well. The only other hitter since Pete Rose to be on par or better than Ichiro in pure hitting was Tony Gwynn, and I think we can all agree he was pretty darn good. At least I'd hope so. Oh wait, his career OPS is only .847, he probably shouldn't be even considered for the HoF. :roll:

[NickD]

So baseball is all bout stats? Its people like you. who take steroids cuz all they think is bout STATS.

But ... the team that wins is the team that has better stats, inherently. So then, if winning is all that matters, then stats come right along side Mr Winny.

Another thing to consider ... why do we have stats? What is the point in keeping statistics? I'll save you some time and tell you: stats are for comparing one player to another.

We can conclude, then, that the sole intention of keeping statistics in baseball is to see who is the best. As mentioned, he is not even hands down the best Right Fielder in baseball. He hits for a high average and that is a popular stat, hence him being "elite".

Are you not being hypocritical here? Why is Ichiro so good? Your claim is that he is the MVP of his team, and not because of a high average (if you like him because of a high average you're clearly being hypocritical) yet he is on a garbage team that is 30.0 GB of 1st place. So what is it?

This being said, i'm a huge Ichiro fan. He's an awesome player.

edit - i'm not sure I understand the alluding to steroids at al.

[sixto]

Using that logic, lets find out some other intersting tidbits! Since OPS is all that matters, ya know. Lets see. Well, Juan Pierre is the 16th best CF in the game. Boy, is he overrated. Heck, Scott Podsednik is 24th best. I can easily think of 23 CFs I'd take over him :roll:. Carl Crawford is only the 20th best LF as well. He doesn't deserve the hype he gets either. Heck, Rondell White is way better than Crawford is. Edgar Renteria? He's only the 16th best SS and Cezar Izturis? 18th best SS. We all know Jose Valentin and Royce Clayton are much better SSs than Renteria and Izturis. :roll:

I could keep going for each position but I don't think its neccesary. OPS is a good stat to compare sluggers, but not to compare everyone. If Ichiro was batting 3rd or 4th and been known as as slugger and was 8th in OPS, I don't think anyone would be saying he should be MVP or is the best player at his position in the game right now. But thats not his game. OPS is not his game. Average is his game. Stealing bases is his game. Playing gold glove defense is his game. He does all that extremely well. The only other hitter since Pete Rose to be on par or better than Ichiro in pure hitting was Tony Gwynn, and I think we can all agree he was pretty darn good. At least I'd hope so. Oh wait, his career OPS is only .847, he probably shouldn't be even considered for the HoF. :roll:

So you are one of those fans who believes that hustle wins ballgames. It must be the hustle because Pete Rose hit .303 for his career, so he certainly has little in common with Ichiro. Well, I've never seen a player score a run while he was motoring out to take some really awesome infield warmups. But that's just me.

I'm pleased that you read what I wrote so carefully. I suggested you throw out the stats and simply look at the names. You would rather have Ichiro than Vladimir Guerrero, or Bobby Abreu, or Gary Sheffield, or Miguel Cabrera? Or J.D. Drew? Enjoy. You won't win as many games, but you will be watching one of the most masterful batsmen in many years.

You're pretty good with the smilies, but you forgot one. :banghead:

Your Podsednik comments are hilarious, by the way. You know that Ichiro is an elite player because his skill is hitting for average, but you'd rather have Scott Podsednik's laughable .246 average than 23 other CFs? You can't steal first base. Podsednik had a nice year last year, but this year he stinks. I'm sure I know how I know he stinks. I'm just not sure how you know he doesn't.

[Wolverineman]

Yes, hustle does win games. Florida won last year with a lot of it. Same with Anaheim a couple years ago, and Arizona. One of the reasons teams like the Yankees haven't been able to win it all lately is hustle. Besides Jeter, the Yanks don't get much of it. They feel they can sit back and homer the other team to death. Well when they go up against a Josh Beckett, thats not gonna work. You need to hustle. Steal a base or two, take an extra base, on a hit, manufacture a run here and there and you can win. I have a lot more respect for the players that will do that than I do for the ones who sit back and just think hitting homeruns can win it. Its one of the things that really annoys me about the Cubbies. If they would hustle a bit more, try to manufacture a few more runs, they'd have a comfortable lead in the wild card race right now. They show flashes of it at times(Sosa in extra innings the other night for example) but not enough.

If you put Cabrera, Drew, Sheffield, any of those guys except maybe Vlad, in Ichiro's place and Seattle is worse right now than they are with Ichiro. Seattle is just a very bad team. They went into the season relying on older talent to drive in Ichiro and Randy Winn, and it just hasn't happened. Bret Boone is having his worst year since he was with the Padres. Edgar Martinez just isn't the same as he used to be and is retiring. After that they have practically nobodies. A few good young players in Bloomquist, Lopez, Jacobsen, Olivio, Reed, but noone thats gonna make a big difference this year. Scott Spiezo is a good guy to have on a playoff quality team, but on a team like Seattle he just isn't that useful. If you put Sheffield, Drew, Cabrera, Abreu, they might .300, hit a few less homeruns than they have with their current teams, and might be lucky to drive in 100 for the season, which would give them a nice average season and people would praise them for putting up with how bad Seattle is this year. Ichiro isn't doing that, he's having an amazing season. One of the best in recent memory. He's doing everything possible for Seattle, but theres only so much one player can do.

And yeah maybe Podsednik isn't a great example, but he's still a good CF. He's had a slump the last couple months, but so have all of the Brewers. He's still stole 56 bases. He's still great defensively. There aren't 23 better CFs in the league, unless you consider players that play LF or RF that can play CF to also be CFs(Ichiro and Carl Crawford come to mind).

[Paralysis]

Useless Ichiro Facts (from espn.com)

# Try to digest the fact that this man, Ichiro Suzuki, has had three 50-hit months this season. Before he came along, nobody had gotten two 50-hit months in a season since 1936 (Joe Medwick). And no one had even gotten three in a career since Pete Rose.




# Ichiro's 56 hits in August were the most by any player in any month in at least a half-century. But there has been a lot of dispute over the last man to do that.




Despite some reports that the last player to get that many hits in a month was Jeff Heath in 1938, loyal reader Trent McCotter disputes that note. McCotter says his review of official American League day-by-days shows that Dale Mitchell (more famous for making the last out in Don Larsen's perfect game) got 59 hits in August, 1948.




# It tells you all you need to know about the Mariners' season that here is Ichiro, on the trail of the all-time hits record -- and he isn't even in the top 10 in his league in runs scored.




Since 1990, according to Elias, only three players have gotten 200 hits or more, led their league and not made the top 10 in runs scored:




1996 -- Paul Molitor 225 hits, 23rd in runs (99)


1998 -- Dante Bichette 219 hits, T-18th in runs (98)


2001 -- Rich Aurilia, 206 hits, 11th in runs (114)




Ichiro's current rank (through Thursday): 19th (with 90). Bernie Williams had 101 fewer hits -- but had scored three more runs.




# But Ichiro, of course, is way over 200 hits. He's already over 230, in fact. And only two players in history ever got more than 230 hits without scoring 100 runs -- Joe Torre (230 hits, 97 runs) in 1971 and Freddie Lindstrom (231 hits, 99 runs) in 1928.




# The year George Sisler set the all-time hits record (with 257, in 1920), he scored 137 runs. Ichiro, on the other hand, is on pace to become the first player in history to have 150 more hits than runs.




The current record-holder in that department, according to Lee Sinins' Sabermetric Baseball Encyclopedia, is Kirby Puckett:




140 -- Kirby Puckett, 1989 (215 hits, 175 runs)


138 -- George Sisler, 1929 (205 hits, 67 runs)


138 -- Felipe Alou, 1968 (210, 72)


137 -- Heinie Manush, 1938 (241, 104)

- Para

[Guest]

So you are one of those fans who believes that hustle wins ballgames. It must be the hustle because Pete Rose hit .303 for his career, so he certainly has little in common with Ichiro. Well, I've never seen a player score a run while he was motoring out to take some really awesome infield warmups. But that's just me.

I'm pleased that you read what I wrote so carefully. I suggested you throw out the stats and simply look at the names. You would rather have Ichiro than Vladimir Guerrero, or Bobby Abreu, or Gary Sheffield, or Miguel Cabrera? Or J.D. Drew? Enjoy. You won't win as many games, but you will be watching one of the most masterful batsmen in many years.

You're pretty good with the smilies, but you forgot one. :banghead:

Your Podsednik comments are hilarious, by the way. You know that Ichiro is an elite player because his skill is hitting for average, but you'd rather have Scott Podsednik's laughable .246 average than 23 other CFs? You can't steal first base. Podsednik had a nice year last year, but this year he stinks. I'm sure I know how I know he stinks. I'm just not sure how you know he doesn't.

If stats is all that matters..... Just take steroids... :roll: ....

and if you didn't hear me before.... People who have good stats

... TAKE STEROIDS.... :roll:

[Cris987]

Then according to him, who is Ichiro?

I mean, if someone hits for average, steals, has great defense, and throws out tons of guys. What is he? If he's not a great player? Who's he? and who is a great player?

[twins15]

If stats is all that matters..... Just take steroids... :roll: ....

and if you didn't hear me before.... People who have good stats

... TAKE STEROIDS.... :roll:

So you have no answer, then?

[bone]

update on the record in my sig.

it looks very unlikely he is going to make it :cry:

[dennis_is_theman]

but hes doing pretty bad for me

[bone]

but hes doing pretty bad for me

who? ichiro? you have him on your dynasty?