kabiff123 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 defensively coco crisp has to be up there. he makes all of the plays. he's with hunter in the field imo. i believe he has 0 errors so far?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 i'd take Vernon Wells first over any of them...the man is just pure grace when it comes to defense..never seen a player make the plays look so easy..just pure fluidness(if thats a word)..and no its not because i'm from Toronto..i watch every game i can for all teams and to me this guy shows grace...besides a player you would want in your clubhouse..met him a few times and the man is like your next door neighbour..a pure gentleman well said. i agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_jefe061 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 fluidness(if thats a word) "fluidity" is what you mean. I agree with Wells. It feels like he's not getting the kind of "love" he should be. He's a Gold Glover with 30 Home Run power. Does it get much better than that? He's also in his prime too. Maybe it's because when he came up everyone was expecting him to be some sort of Centerfield Jesus, when he actually hasn't lived up to those expectations. Believe me, he's a fantastic player, but his ceiling was set ridiculously high. I agree that Coco should be in the discussion. He's not the best, obviously, but he's at least up there. His defense has been spectacular, and his hitting has been fantastic the last couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgbaseball Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 No doubt Crisp is right up there this year defensively with the best of them. And his bat has awakened recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Star Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 "fluidity" is what you mean. I agree with Wells. It feels like he's not getting the kind of "love" he should be. He's a Gold Glover with 30 Home Run power. Does it get much better than that? He's also in his prime too. Maybe it's because when he came up everyone was expecting him to be some sort of Centerfield Jesus, when he actually hasn't lived up to those expectations. Believe me, he's a fantastic player, but his ceiling was set ridiculously high. I agree that Coco should be in the discussion. He's not the best, obviously, but he's at least up there. His defense has been spectacular, and his hitting has been fantastic the last couple of months. I agree with Wells defensively but I think wells is vastly overrated offensively...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triberocks4 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 While Coco is fast, he is not nearly the 5-tool player Grady is. Also, as Grady fills out his body, his power numbers will go up. Wedge will (likely) use him in the 3-hole as he gets bigger (circa 2009-2011), leaving him less opportunities to steal but more opportunities to drive in runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 B.J. Upton getting no love. He has the 4th highest VORP out of AL CFers 1) Ichiro 46.9 2) Granderson 45.1 3) Sizemore 36.8 4) Upton 36.3 Worst part is knowing he could be maning our outfield at the cost of Scott "75 ERA+" Olsen this past offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeuceBlades Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 When the Indians finally get a legit leadoff guy, and put Sizemore in the 3 spot, Sizemore will by far be the most productive CF in the bigs. I like Granderson alot too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobluen07 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Ichiro Sizemore Hunter.....in any order you like everyone else waaaaaaaay down here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_jefe061 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I agree with Wells defensively but I think wells is vastly overrated offensively...... How is he vastly overrated? Half of the people on here barely think about him. 32 Home Runs, 106 RBI, .303, and 17 Stolen bases is overrated? He sounds like a perfect #3 hitter to me. How is this guy not in the Top 3 conversation, with his defense too? He's just as good as Hunter, Ichiro, and Sizemore. B.J. Upton getting no love. That's because everyone, including me, is thinking of him as a Second Baseman. B.J. changes his primary position every other day. He's not the long term CF option, so I don't think he should be considered. While Coco is fast, he is not nearly the 5-tool player Grady is. Also, as Grady fills out his body, his power numbers will go up. Wedge will (likely) use him in the 3-hole as he gets bigger (circa 2009-2011), leaving him less opportunities to steal but more opportunities to drive in runs. No one is saying he is, but Coco should at least be considered one of the better Centerfielders in the AL. You don't have to be 5 Tool to be a good centerfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Upton is the long term CF option, actually. He played 2b out of nessecity. The plan prior to the season was to have him out in center by seasons end. Only time he won't be in CF again is if Baldelli is actually healthy prior to being traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timp Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I agree with Wells. It feels like he's not getting the kind of "love" he should be. That's because he's having a down season. .255/.312/.432. I think he had the flu earlier this year, which could have thrown him off track (or he just had a really good year for his contract year). Nevertheless, he was getting a lot of "love" last year, and was in MVP talks. edit: Forgot my list... 1) Ichiro 2) Sizemore 3) Hunter 4) Granderson 5) Wells (Upton - I don't really consider him cemented in CF) 6) Matthews 7) Dejesus 8 ) Crisp That's as far as I want to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_jefe061 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 That's because he's having a down season. .255/.312/.432. I think he had the flu earlier this year, which could have thrown him off track (or he just had a really good year for his contract year). Nevertheless, he was getting a lot of "love" last year, and was in MVP talks. He has had an off year, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered one of the best in the game. Guys bounce up and down from year to year all the time, and he's only 28 now. Upton is the long term CF option, actually. He played 2b out of nessecity. The plan prior to the season was to have him out in center by seasons end. Only time he won't be in CF again is if Baldelli is actually healthy prior to being traded. I knew Rocco was hurt, but I didn't know B.J. was going to be there indefinitely. It's too bad there's no steady position for him to play at, I was really looking forward to him at 2nd Base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timp Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 He has had an off year, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered one of the best in the game. Guys bounce up and down from year to year all the time, and he's only 28 now. I never said that he shouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBoogie Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Granderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big O Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Corey Patterson should definitely get some consideration for best defensive CFer in the AL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ball Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 My Overall list Ichiro Sizemore Wells Hunter Granderson Coco Matthews Dejesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashBrother Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Vells is great offensively...he signed the big contract and because of the type of person he is he's pressing too hard..He's tryin to show that he desrves what he signed for,that is prob causin him alot of pressure which he's putting on himself..if he gets back to thinkin of his game before he signed the contract watch out,major explosion coming..they relived the pressure a bit by putting him in the leadoff spot,but when Reed Johnson came back he's a pure leadoff man,had to put Wells back in the third spot..if not this year,next year Wells will show he's worth the drive to acton..rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeuceBlades Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Ichiro was a right fielder first, how did he become part of the CF discussion when he hasnt logged enough time in center? If you want to put Upton in the same boat. I love Ichiro, hes a one man wrecking machine when hes on, but I dont consider him a CF. Did he play CF in Japan? If so, then I apologise for my lack of knowledge, but I stick to my guns. I consider Coco to be a LF, because as an Indian, thats what he played. Now if you want to put total outfielder, then Ichiro is the best IMO, followed by Sizemore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_jefe061 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 I never said that he shouldn't It's not you saying he shouldn't, but people seem to be giving him the slight because of this year. Give me one guy who hasn't had one bad year, and Well s is still going to put up good numbers. Ichiro was a right fielder first, how did he become part of the CF discussion when he hasnt logged enough time in center? If you want to put Upton in the same boat. I love Ichiro, hes a one man wrecking machine when hes on, but I dont consider him a CF. Did he play CF in Japan? If so, then I apologise for my lack of knowledge, but I stick to my guns. I consider Coco to be a LF, because as an Indian, thats what he played. Now if you want to put total outfielder, then Ichiro is the best IMO, followed by Sizemore. Ichiro and Crisp are both natural centerfielders, I'm pretty sure Coco moved over because of Sizemore. I don't see how you can not consider both of these guys centerfielders. Ichiro has been playing the entire season at Center, more than Upton has, and that's his first position. Not to mention he's been fantastic there. Crisp was pushed out of Center, his natural position, by Sizemore. Not to mention he's played more than a year there. That should be enough to consider them as centerfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Crisp has 381 games played as a CFer, 212 as a LFer throughout his career. Upton I can understand being excluded from the arguement. Ichiro...eh, kinda, but the conversation is for this year, and Ichiro has only been in CF this year. But Crisp you flat out can't exclude, expecially with your reasoning. Just his cleveland years, he has 188 games in CF, 216 in LF, hardly a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timp Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Ichiro was a right fielder first, how did he become part of the CF discussion when he hasnt logged enough time in center? If you want to put Upton in the same boat. I love Ichiro, hes a one man wrecking machine when hes on, but I dont consider him a CF. Define "enough time in center." Upton has played multiple positions this year, while Ichiro has been a CFer the entire season and will most likely be for a long time. I consider Coco to be a LF, because as an Indian, thats what he played. Oh, so it doesn't matter what position he plays RIGHT NOW with the Red Sox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazmatsui10 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 putting ichiro in cf was the smartest move ever! ( experiment last year to make space for prospect, chris snelling)...i know he has a great arm but why trap him in the corner when he can cover alot more ground in cf? personally, i think crisp and amezaga..yes, AMEZAGA...should be revered...they go out there and risk their necks everyday to chase down those gappers... hey how come A.Jones isn't being mentioned? o_O...who cares if he's having a bad year offensively... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazmatsui10 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 sorry for the double post but i just couldn't leave ryan freel and aaron rowand out of the mix...remember their injuries while manning their position?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 well this is the american league thread... ichiro was actually a CF before he came here. just so happens when they were persuing him, there was a guy named griffey roaming centerfield. and then when he finally arrived, mike cameron was there, so he got RF. plus he did so well they just kinda kept him there until the jeremy reed project crashed and burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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