Billy Beane has won 1 playoff series

[HardcoreLegend]

You know, I'm glad that Billy Beane has put more emphasis on OBP and on paying for performance. Don't get me wrong.

But, at a certain point, someone needs to call BS on the method he takes. The Oakland A's under his 'regime' have made it out of the 1st round only once (in 2006) and that was largely in part because Frank Thomas destroyed Johan Santana.

Beane was handed (while healthy) 3 of the best young pitchers in the game, a great defensive third basemen and roid-powered young players in Tejada, Giambi, Damon, etc. The litany of great young players that have gone through Oakland while he was there has brought practically nothing. He let Jermaine Dye walk and then have him put up an almost MVP winning season.

I like the insight he's brought into the GM position but at some point people have to realize he has had no real success with it.

[KillerBs]

Thank you, HCL. People follow him religiously, but he hasn't had any real success.

[abc006]

THANK YOU. I mean, is this what you call success with a 60 million dolar payroll?

Year -- Finish, bold means playoffs

1999 -- 2

2000 1

2001 -- 2 (WC)

2002 -- 1

2003 -- 1

2004 -- 2

2005 -- 2

2006 -- 1

2007 -- 3

I wouldn't call 5 playoff berths in 9 years a success, why would you you? Thank you for pointing out that what happens in the playoffs is completely under a GM's control.

[BigPaPa]

i think people idolize him mroe for what hes done with less. He has a small payroll and puts out winning teams i dont dought if he was given even a 80 million dollar payroll his playoff track record would look better. Im not saying your wrong because his playoff record is attrocious but for what hes been given hes taken it a long way.

[Pirate]

He's ruined baseball.

[Sean O]

In the 6 years of the Mets having a far greater payroll, they've won one postseason series. They've also made the playoffs far less than the A's have in the same time.

People who are willing to take an even-keeled look at this can see that the Twins and A's have had extreme success in spite of low payrolls, with very different approaches. Neither is right, but both have been successful.

Billy Beane didn't write the book, and I guarantee he'd much rather not have everyone in baseball know how he does business. He's had a disproportionate amount of success in both drafting and trades, largely because of advanced performance analysis.

He's in favor of intelligently looking at problems and finding solutions. What a monster. Being informed does not destroy baseball.

[Pirate]

No it just takes the fun out of it, which is te point of baseball, fun and enjoyment, fo the fans and the players. But that has been lost in these days of over priced athletes and mathmatic formulas that determine who is better in a fantasy land database.

Baseball is ruined when it is no longer fun. Billy Beane's baseball is not fun.

[HardcoreLegend]

THANK YOU. I mean, is this what you call success with a 60 million dolar payroll?

Year -- Finish, bold means playoffs

1999 -- 2

2000 1

2001 -- 2 (WC)

2002 -- 1

2003 -- 1

2004 -- 2

2005 -- 2

2006 -- 1

2007 -- 3

I wouldn't call 5 playoff berths in 9 years a success, why would you you? Thank you for pointing out that what happens in the playoffs is completely under a GM's control.

He didn't draft Tejada, Chavez, Hudson, or Mulder. He traded Aaron Harang for nothing. He non-tender Eric Byrnes.

He rode the backs of 3 great pitchers, only one of which he brought into the organization. Beane walked right into a situation with a stocked farm system.

Look at his drafts. What talent has he brought into the organization?

[sportnut1486]

this is an interesting point.... I just bought his book really cheap on amazon, and was about to read it..... now I question that idea

[SwinginSoriano]

Beane is what he is. Moneyball proved to be the future of evaluating baseball players, as now a majority of fans are more interested in OBP/OPS than RBIs. However Beane's success was not from generating big bats from within as dictated by Moneyball, but by the "Big 3", signing Frank Thomas for pennies, and MVP years by Tejada and Giambi.

However, with a payroll nearing 80 million in 2007, the A's sucked and now look like they will suck for a long time. Beane didn't do anything out of the ordinary, as the Minnesota Twins and Cleveland Indians successful rebuilt with lower payrolls.

Give credit to Beane for making the A's competitve well towards the end of this decade, that on its own is a huge success. Beane's cult status and sabremetrics-mania did go out of hand. Beane is a good GM, but remember he traded for Carlos Beltran... only to trade him for Octavio Dotel. :headache:

[HardcoreLegend]

this is an interesting point.... I just bought his book really cheap on amazon, and was about to read it..... now I question that idea

No, read it. Beane isn't an idiot nor is the way he runs everything flawed.

He isn't Branch Ricky, though.

[Nats2023]

this is an interesting point.... I just bought his book really cheap on amazon, and was about to read it..... now I question that idea

Beane has never written a book, but if he did, I know I would buy it.

[Sean O]

No it just takes the fun out of it, which is te point of baseball, fun and enjoyment, fo the fans and the players. But that has been lost in these days of over priced athletes and mathmatic formulas that determine who is better in a fantasy land database.

Baseball is ruined when it is no longer fun. Billy Beane's baseball is not fun.

It's fun for other people, and why do you or anyone get to decide the one way that baseball is fun?

If you don't like stats, don't pay attention to it. Simple as that. Why is this so difficult?

[abc006]

No it just takes the fun out of it, which is te point of baseball, fun and enjoyment, fo the fans and the players. But that has been lost in these days of over priced athletes and mathmatic formulas that determine who is better in a fantasy land database.

Baseball is ruined when it is no longer fun. Billy Beane's baseball is not fun.

What an ignorant load of BS. Try to comprehend, just for a moment, that for some people, math and baseball IS fun. You don't have to like it, just respect it and realize that to some people it is a form of enjoyment, it is an aspect of "humanity" in the game. If you don't like stats then ignore them. But realize that they are an aspect of baseball just like anything else. Why can't you at least respect it instead of spewing false, ignorant insults and propaganda? Why the hell is that so hard to just respect it?

I just bought his book really cheap on amazon

Been listening to Joe Morgan, eh?

[RaptorQuiz]

[Edit]

Those of us that think the over-emphasis on stats has stripped the soul from baseball will continue to think the way we do...

...you and your fellow SABR-ticians are free to retire to the nerdery with your calculators. :wink: lol.

No need to get your panties in a bunch.

[Sean O]

Give credit to Beane for making the A's competitve well towards the end of this decade, that on its own is a huge success. Beane's cult status and sabremetrics-mania did go out of hand. Beane is a good GM, but remember he traded for Carlos Beltran... only to trade him for Octavio Dotel. :headache:

Well, the Twins nontendered David Ortiz, so scouting must fail as well, right? the arguments that Beane can be attacked by his worst move is idiotic, since every GM has skeletons in their closet. The Twins signed Tony Batista, The Cardinals traded Haren and Daric Barton for a broken down Mulder, The Red Sox traded Cla Meredith and Josh Bard for Doug Mirabelli.

Beane is good, and with the Red Sox situation would've won 100+ each year. Look at what we did with dumpy Theo.

[abc006]

Raptor, I have no problem with just not liking stats as much as other aspects of the game, but I personally find it insulting to say it has "stripped the soul" of baseball - just respect it and realize it's still an aspect of baseball that people enjoy. You don't have to like it, ignore it if you want, but just respect it.

And there's such thing as a nerdery? Cool.

[RaptorQuiz]

lol the nerdery thing was from Tommy Boy.

And I have a Management Information Systems degree with a minor in Comp Sci - so, see you in the Nerdery.

[HardcoreLegend]

Well, the Twins nontendered David Ortiz, so scouting must fail as well, right?

I don't think the Twins understood how good David Arias could be on HGH.

the arguments that Beane can be attacked by his worst move is idiotic

Which one?

The Cardinals traded Haren and Daric Barton for a broken down Mulder

Yes, they did. They almost got Beane to agree to take Jason Marquis instead of Haren and it's widely held that Beane lied about the extent of Mulder's injuries.

Beane is good, and with the Red Sox situation would've won 100+ each year. Look at what we did with dumpy Theo.

In the 5 years Theo has been the GM (or actually, the 5 years Theo's 'team' has been on the field), they've gone 459-340. In the 5 years prior to Theo, 446-363. Theo has spent $620 M. The prior 5 years, $423 M.

Theo has won 2 more World Series but by the Grace of God, a groundrule double gone arry and Senator Mitchell releasing Paul Byrd's name.

[rolie]

I think beane is a genius. I'm not really a stat guy. It always seems that whatever stars he trades away turn into mush. That's what I'm hoping with Haren. I thought Theo was a genius untill he signed drew and lugo. I'm even slightly changing my opinion on Depodesta after the mitchell report.

Btw. We are all nerds.

[kgbaseball]

I wouldn't call 5 playoff berths in 9 years a success, why would you you?

For a small market team, that's absolutely a success. How can you possibly argue otherwise.

Sure, every team's goal going into the season is to win the WS, but for how many teams is that a legit goal? Maybe half.

I would be thrilled if the Brewers had made the playoffs the last 5 out of 9 years, if only because their payroll was smaller than many teams.

I do agree that Beane isn't the best GM around, but his philosophy absolutely has worked, it just hasn't worked perfectly.

[Sean O]

I don't think the Twins understood how good David Arias could be on HGH.

PPOR. Don't make something up unless you have proof.

Which one?

Don't be cute.

Yes, they did. They almost got Beane to agree to take Jason Marquis instead of Haren and it's widely held that Beane lied about the extent of Mulder's injuries.

PPOR.

In the 5 years Theo has been the GM (or actually, the 5 years Theo's 'team' has been on the field), they've gone 459-340. In the 5 years prior to Theo, 446-363. Theo has spent $620 M. The prior 5 years, $423 M.

Inflation doesn't happen. Especially in baseball.

Theo has won 2 more World Series but by the Grace of God, a groundrule double gone arry and Senator Mitchell releasing Paul Byrd's name.

So, Theo won a world series because of the short wall in right so it was a ground rule double, but Billy Beane personally forced Jeremy Giambi not to slide during the series against the Yankees with the Jeter Flip. And the Byrd suggestion is so hilariously stupid I don't know where to begin.

Makes sense.

[abc006]

For a small market team, that's absolutely a success. How can you possibly argue otherwise.

I was being sarcastic. Or were you addressing the other people there?

Billy Beane isn't Branch Rickey, but he is still one of the best GMs in baseball. Let's put it this way: Of all the GMs in baseball, perhaps some would do better with the right resources and luck, but the vast majority would do far worse.

[kgbaseball]

Ahh sorry, I thought you were being serious. :)

[HardcoreLegend]

PPOR. Don't make something up unless you have proof.

Don't be cute.

PPOR.

Inflation doesn't happen. Especially in baseball.

So, Theo won a world series because of the short wall in right so it was a ground rule double, but Billy Beane personally forced Jeremy Giambi not to slide during the series against the Yankees with the Jeter Flip. And the Byrd suggestion is so hilariously stupid I don't know where to begin.

Makes sense.

PPOR. See, I can be flippant and cute, too.