abc006 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 First of all, you didn't answer my question. I wasn't specifically talking about Obama there, I was talking about the question of the importance of experience in general. Second, you've got to be kidding me that you think Obama is trying to make his political views "accessible" and not what he truly believes. You think Obama doesn't have any risks support-wise with the political views he's expressed all along in his campaign? He has not been changing his views to make them more moderate or make them more like whatever is currently popular. Any casual follower of his campaign would see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerBs Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Obama is ok, but not great. As long as he keeps standing where he does on gun control and the PATRIOT Act, I won't vote for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc006 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Don't tell me you support the Patriot act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Why in the world does experience have to matter? Doesn't one's political views matter than their unfortunate luck of being ten or twenty years younger than whoever their opposition is? If, for example, there was a random guy off the street who A) stood for everything you stand for and would make all the same decisions as you agree with, also knew how politics and how the legal system, lawmaking, etc. works, enough to be president without not knowing what the hell he's supposed to do, and C) Was the candidate for a major political party, any of them, big enough to possibly get enough votes to win, BUT literally has no formal experience in politics, why wouldn't you vote for him? Do you honestly believe he would make worse choices as president than someone who has more experience but not as favorable political views? KillerBs, just run yourself as an independent. Here is your answer take it how every you want We are at war and we need someone with experience, PERIOD now unless a miracle happened at the convention we are stuck with one of these two, I like Obama more than Hillary and will vote for Obama. I just can not stand Hillary and I have problems believing anything she says (yes I liked Bill). If Hillary wins I will be behind here 1000%, I have never voted for a republican and will not be doing so this time either. The next president will most likely pick 3 Supreme Court Justices, so a democrat MUST WIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerBs Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Heck no I don't support the PATRIOT Act. Obama voted in favor of the most recent PATRIOT Act Reauthorization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Obama is ok, but not great. As long as he keeps standing where he does on gun control and the PATRIOT Act, I won't vote for him. PATRIOT Act are you kidding me, the PATRIOT Act needs to be abolished. Can anyone name one piece of legislature that has take more rights away from citizens than the PATRIOT Act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 OK nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerBs Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I agree ... Obama apparently doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 "Giving law enforcement the tools they need to investigate suspicious activity is the right thing, and the Senate showed earlier this year that it can be done with the oversight of our judicial system so we do not jeopardize the rights of all Americans and the ideals America stands for. We should not let the PATRIOT Act expire at the end of this year, but instead extend the current law for three months so that we can come to an agreement on these critical issues in Congress." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 for what it is worth He Voted NO on extending the PATRIOT Act's wiretap provision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Just the other day Obama lectured churchgoers about their (and our) shoddy treatment of homosexual rights. He was one of the very few that was against the Iraq War from the start. How dramatically different are Obama's no-votes than other senators / frosh senators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Just the other day Obama lectured churchgoers about their (and our) shoddy treatment of homosexual rights. He was one of the very few that was against the Iraq War from the start. How dramatically different are Obama's no-votes than other senators / frosh senators? Like 35 percent of his votes were No-Votes/present, Hillary is at 16% Edwards was at 40% but unlike the others he was not even around for most of the voting, at least Obama & Hillary showed up during the voting process. They just choose not to vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Speaking of which kraw, I don't know whether or not you read Daily Kos, but it would be super helpful if you could send an e-mail off to Jay Rockefeller and any of the other supposed democrats who are voting for that abomination of a FISA bill that gives immunity to telecom companies conducting illegal wiretaps. I sent one yesterday, and every bit helps. There's a complete list on dailykos.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Speaking of which kraw, I don't know whether or not you read Daily Kos, but it would be super helpful if you could send an e-mail off to Jay Rockefeller and any of the other supposed democrats who are voting for that abomination of a FISA bill that gives immunity to telecom companies conducting illegal wiretaps. I sent one yesterday, and every bit helps. There's a complete list on dailykos.com. screw that, call him Rockefeller (202) 224-6472 I went old school and snail mailed real letters, dropped them off at the post office when I picked the boy up from school Another good site http://www.democraticunderground.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Good for you man, good for you. That FISA garbage is exactly why we need someone from the left in office next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerBs Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How about someone from the right who has common sense? I know that that may seem like an oxymoron, but there are conservatives who have common sense ... somewhere ... we just have to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How about someone from the right who has common sense? I know that that may seem like an oxymoron, but there are conservatives who have common sense ... somewhere ... we just have to find them. Well, the roll call from the FISA vote is extremely disappointing. Someone like Ron Paul seems to believe that FISA is a terrible move, but that corporations should be given all the power while the government is disbanded. Does anyone else out there trust companies ranging from walmart to comast? Anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerBs Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Ron Paul, if you take his economic plan out of the picture, isn't a bad choice ... I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwinginSoriano Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 What's wrong with Obama? Anti-war from the start, huge donor base, highly intelligent, great speaker, democratic stands on all of the major issues... certainly better than the universally despised HRC. Barack Obama is not anti-war. The only person "crazy" enough to end the war is crazy old Paul of course. Obama is the status quo, or at the very least, a Clinton-esque 'throw a few missiles at them' and maintain an international military presence figure. The Iranian "regime is a threat to all of us," Obama said. While Obama wouldn't rule out force, he said the United States should engage in "aggressive diplomacy combined with tough sanctions" to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear threat. Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region. "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said. “In light of the fact that we’re now in Iraq, with all the problems in terms of perceptions about America that have been created, us launching some missile strikes into Iran is not the optimal position for us to be in,†he said. “On the other hand, having a radical Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse. So I guess my instinct would be to err on not having those weapons in the possession of the ruling clerics of Iran. … And I hope it doesn’t get to that point. But realistically, as I watch how this thing has evolved, I’d be surprised if Iran blinked at this point.†--- I really don't think Obama is worse than Hillary, so in the end, Kraw is right, you're voting for a piece of **** either way. Does anyone else out there trust companies ranging from walmart to comast? Anybody? At least I could take my business elsewhere. :mrgreen: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How can you take your business elsewhere? Walmart destroys its competition, leaving only them. Do you mean to kmart or target? If you don't like Comcast, you have Verizon. what a dramatic difference. And I should've been clear, Obama was against the illegal, idiotic Iraq war from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolie Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Is it bad that I see no one that I want to vote for, Democrat or Republican? I'm in the same boat. I don't like Obama for some reason. He just doesn't seem black enough lol. He needs to go to the beach or learn ebonics hahahaha. :wink: He reminds me of Carlton Banks from "Fresh Prince of Bel Air". :insane: I have aneurysms during mid terms. I'm just gonna draw some straws and hope for the best. :duh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogar84 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Barack Obama is not anti-war. The only person "crazy" enough to end the war is crazy old Paul of course. Obama is the status quo, or at the very least, a Clinton-esque 'throw a few missiles at them' and maintain an international military presence figure. --- I really don't think Obama is worse than Hillary, so in the end, Kraw is right, you're voting for a piece of **** either way. At least I could take my business elsewhere. :mrgreen: This is all true. Ron Paul is the only true serious anti-war candidate. The idea that Obama or Hillary would withdraw troops from Iraq "within 60 days" as they have both have said and lied to the American people is a fairy tale (Sorry, Bill Clinton). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 This is all true. Ron Paul is the only true serious anti-war candidate. The idea that Obama or Hillary would withdraw troops from Iraq "within 60 days" as they have both have said and lied to the American people is a fairy tale (Sorry, Bill Clinton). Describing him as anti-war is, to me, pretty misleading. He's an isolationist, who pretty much has no concept of foreign relations. He also wants to lead a government when he wants to destroy his government. How does this make him seem enticing to people? In an increasingly global economy, how is isolationism going to help us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hory Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How is describing him as 'anti-war' mis-leading? He is against wars of choice, and against "interfering" in other nations. And you can't bash Paul for being a tool of corporations and then call him isolationist, that's contradictory, he wants free and open trade with everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 And you can't bash Paul for being a tool of corporations and then call him isolationist, that's contradictory, he wants free and open trade with everyone. Sure I can. Surely we can agree that there is a connection between economics and social agreements, yeah? With the EU extremely powerful and growing, and America being pretty crappy when it comes to the manufacturing sector, how will completely removing ourselves from the world really help us, free trade or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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