kumala Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 what work did ksm use from other modders here? I'm sure others have as well and to me if his mod allows us gamers to enjoy the game even more, then it should uploaded. but its not up to me. I give all credit to all the modders here because without them this game would have been dead along time ago. Kraw, any info on what was used in the mod by ksm? or anyone want to give some info. sad if we won't be able to use it. Cause to me ksm, has done the most changes to any datafile here. just my opinion. and I think we have use a lot of stuff from his mods as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgi Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I believe he incorporated the Spungo's uniforms without permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgbaseball Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Just about everything is someone else's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumala Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 so if he just said, credit for unis and etc, would that make you guys happy? if so, I think someone needs to tell, especially when he doesn't speak good english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Keep dreaming. The EAmods.com guys are making their own MVP08 mod. This is basically a knock-off of it, put together and including KSM's datafile(s). KSM is the datafile master - he apparently put this together with some minor collaboration with some other people, but without getting any permission from the authors of some of the mods contained in the package, i.e. thespungo who will never allow anything he's worked on to be uploaded to this site, whether it be stand-alone or contained within a package of some sort. I can understand why some of you are irritated at this, but that's just how it goes. I am aware of the "once a modder makes his work, it's public domain" argument - but that's not how the modders in this community work. They like to retain "ownership" of their work, in the sense that they want to have the final say-so as to who uses part or all of their work in any other mods. If you think that is selfish of them, that's you're opinion. It's also too bad. Them's the breaks. They wrote it. I can't do any better, and my guess is, if you're waiting with baited breath for the MVP08 mod, you can't do any better either. So, we're all at the mercy of the mods' authors. As for the people wondering why it's not on the "rules" page - that's because it's an understanding (i.e. "unwritten rule") between modders in this community. So, for anybody that's unclear: This mod has NOT been uploaded to this website by the author. But, if (or when) it is uploaded, it will NEVER be approved to be offered for download to the general public, because it contains a large concentration of work by other authors, many of whom are working on the EAmods.com MVP08 project, and (A) did not give permission for their work to be used, and (will not give permission for their work to be used. This is the end of this particular story. If you have a problem with this, contact the individual authors of the work that was used without permission and complain to them. Or complain to KSM for doing this in the first place - HOWEVER, the fact that English is NOT his first language, means that (A) he may not realize he's done anything wrong, and ( he may not have the foggiest clue what you are saying. Aside from all that - knock yourselves out. Any questions, feel free to post away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSainn Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Keep dreaming. The EAmods.com guys are making their own MVP08 mod. This is basically a knock-off of it, put together and including KSM's datafile(s). KSM is the datafile master - he apparently put this together with some minor collaboration with some other people, but without getting any permission from the authors of some of the mods contained in the package, i.e. thespungo who will never allow anything he's worked on to be uploaded to this site, whether it be stand-alone or contained within a package of some sort. I can understand why some of you are irritated at this, but that's just how it goes. I am aware of the "once a modder makes his work, it's public domain" argument - but that's not how the modders in this community work. They like to retain "ownership" of their work, in the sense that they want to have the final say-so as to who uses part or all of their work in any other mods. Them's the breaks. As for the people wondering why it's not on the "rules" page - that's because it's an understanding (i.e. "unwritten rule") between modders in this community. So, for anybody that's unclear: This mod has NOT been uploaded to this website by the author. But, if (or when) it is uploaded, it will NEVER be approved to be offered for download to the general public, because it contains a large concentration of work by other authors, many of whom are working on the EAmods.com MVP08 project, and (A) did not give permission for their work to be used, and (will not give permission for their work to be used. This is the end of this particular story. If you have a problem with this, contact the individual authors of the work that was used without permission and complain to them. Or complain to KSM for doing this in the first place - HOWEVER, the fact that English is NOT his first language, means that (A) he may not realize he's done anything wrong, and ( he may not have the foggiest clue what you are saying. Aside from all that - knock yourselves out. This is exactly my point though. The guy doesn't speak good English and most likely doesn't realize it's not allowed and probably doesn't know how to ask for permission even if he wanted to. I think it's just selfish and egotistical to deny the fans of this game access to this mod based on this. I've made alot of wallpapers, graphics and other various things on my computer and I'll gladly share my work with anyone and allow them to use it how they choose. I'm not gonna make any money off of it so why not let people enjoy my work in whatever form they get it? I know what work is mine and that's all I need. I don't care if I get credit for it, especially from a bunch of people online that I don't even know. I understand more work goes into these mods than pretty much anything I've made but if you're not making money off of mods, then I would assume you make em for the enjoyment of it and not for the self gratification a bunch of strangers give you. If you're not doing it for money and you're not doing it for enjoyment, then why do it? And if this additude makes modders walk away then so be it, it's not quantity but quality. Sorry if you don't like my point of view but I'm just giving an honest opinion from an average fan of MVP Baseball... I know this game wouldn't be what it is without the modders here but this site and the modders wouldn't be anything if not for the people like me who love this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 InSainn - I completely understand your opinion, and I do not neccessarily disagree with you. I can't say that I feel "selfish" is the right word for people who want to retain control of their work - but I do understand your frustration over the duality of the concept of them releasing their work for the "enjoyment" of the public, but not releasing it for inclusion in others' projects. But, just because they are not PAID for their work, doesn't mean that they should be deprived the credit for the work they did. And that is not as a simple as a mention in a readme file. The way the modders work in this community, is that "credit for their work" includes having people follow their wishes on how it can be used. That's just how it is. The only thing that keeps this fairly delicate system working, is honorable people like Trues and krawhitham running the two sites (MVPmods and EAmods, respectively), and seeing that any mod found to be in violation of these principles isn't approved for download. The official position of this website is to give the maximum amount of respect to the modders, and modders who wish to control the usage of their work are entitled to that right, according to this site and this community. I know this won't make EVERYONE happy, but that's just life sometimes. I apologize for the frustration, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsox Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 ...I know this game wouldn't be what it is without the modders here but this site and the modders wouldn't be anything if not for the people like me who love this game. Sorry to say, but I don't agree with you at all with this statement. As you say, majority of the modders mod for fun and they would still continue to do so if a site like this didn't exist. Basically they mod the game because of their own personal preference and the majority just decide to share their mods with others by uploading to sites like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Sorry to say, but I don't agree with you at all with this statement. As you say, majority of the modders mod for fun and they would still continue to do so if a site like this didn't exist. Basically they mod the game because of their own personal preference and the majority just decide to share their mods with others by uploading to sites like this. I know you may not agree with what he said, but I don't think he meant to offend you or any other modder. So, I hope you don't get overly upset about the direction this thread has taken. I am trying to make it clear to the average user WHY this mod won't be made available (barring a miracle of epic proportions), but I am also trying to explain WHY modders feel this way. I know that it's impossible to make EVERYONE happy, but I just feel that there's no harm in letting people in on the info so they can at least try to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsox Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I think you got me all wrong RQ. I am not upset with him at all nor do I have any reason to be. I just didn't agree with a specific aspect of his post and thought I would voice it. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I think you got me all wrong RQ. I am not upset with him at all nor do I have any reason to be. I just didn't agree with a specific aspect of his post and thought I would voice it. That's all. Oh, okay. Good. I am just worried, b/c I know this is a hot-button issue with modders, b/c many of them feel unappreciated when users seem to demand things from them, and then simultaneously do things that they perceive as "disrespecting" them and their work. But I am also worried b/c we ALL know how much energy is expended waiting for, asking about, and freaking out over everything every time a new "MVP0_" mod comes out. And when this little gem (KSM's 08 edition) popped up, I became quite concerned about the modders vs the average-users perception of what I figured would happen. And here we are. But, no, I certainly wasn't saying YOU were doing anything wrong. I know that the vast majority of modders know what is going on. I know that the vast majority of the "seasoned" users know what is going on. Some of the new people - say somebody who googled and arrived at this site within the past couple weeks - all they want is an 08 mod - they might not have the foggiest clue what is going on or who all the "players" involved in the various sides are. They just want a mod. And I understand that desire. But... you know... can't make EVERYONE happy. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSainn Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 InSainn - I completely understand your opinion, and I do not neccessarily disagree with you. I can't say that I feel "selfish" is the right word for people who want to retain control of their work - but I do understand your frustration over the duality of the concept of them releasing their work for the "enjoyment" of the public, but not releasing it for inclusion in others' projects. But, just because they are not PAID for their work, doesn't mean that they should be deprived the credit for the work they did. And that is not as a simple as a mention in a readme file. The way the modders work in this community, is that "credit for their work" includes having people follow their wishes on how it can be used. That's just how it is. The only thing that keeps this fairly delicate system working, is honorable people like Trues and krawhitham running the two sites (MVPmods and EAmods, respectively), and seeing that any mod found to be in violation of these principles isn't approved for download. The official position of this website is to give the maximum amount of respect to the modders, and modders who wish to control the usage of their work are entitled to that right, according to this site and this community. I know this won't make EVERYONE happy, but that's just life sometimes. I apologize for the frustration, honestly. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to reply and I too can understand where you're coming from but it is, as you said, very frustrating for those of us who just love to play the game. Personally, I love KSM's work, his datafiles and overlays are top notch and since he doesn't understand English there's no telling if he'll release the datafile or overlay he used for this mod seperatly. And unless the official 08 mod features an info bar as visually stunning as the ones on his overlays, I'll go back to one of his 07 overlays in all honesty. And judging from what you said in that last post, I'm assuming that the overlay and datafile won't be extracted from it and released by anyone else. And the thing that frustrates me most is the fact that alot of us already have Spungo's uni's already installed or KG's rosters or anything else that's included in his mod. It's not like the people downloading it won't already know where the various elements come from. I could understand a lil better if noone knew but we're not dumb, I think we can all pick Spungo's unis out of a crowd. I think we all have worked with KG's rosters enough to know who put em together. Sorry for beating a dead horse but this just seems like the same kind of crap that EA would pull. "We could put this feature in the game... Naw, we'll save that for next year to squeeze another $50 out of em." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Like I said, it's an unfortunate situation. I'd love it if once a mod was released it was just out there, for public use, like a "free source" application. But you know what? I probably feel that way because I've never created and released a mod for this game on my own. If I had worked hard to create something on my own, I might feel differently. So in the mean time, since the majority of KSM's 08 release IS, in fact, a compilation of otherwise available mods - there is NOTHING stopping you or anyone else from installing them individually and having roughly the same effect, all on your own. And, I would bet KSM *will* release the 08 datafile and info bars as well. And if he doesn't - Trues is pretty handy with a an overlay and datafile himself :wink: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 so if he just said, credit for unis and etc, would that make you guys happy? if so, I think someone needs to tell, especially when he doesn't speak good english. Afraid not. I don't pretend to speak for all modders, but I do speak as A modder. Personally, my policy has always been that as long as you include credit for whatever work I've done, you're welcome to use it in any way you so desire. Others, however, feel differently and want to give permission for each instance that their work is utilized. It's a perfectly understandable decision, even though I can see how it would be frustrating to many users here. Some want to make sure that their work is not being changed in any way, and some want to make sure their work isn't being mistaken as someone else's, since they take a lot of pride in how it is presented. Look at it this way, modders are the ones who put tens and hundreds of hours into everything that's different from the stock game. The least we can do is let them choose how their work is presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 It's enough to make you wanna by an X-Box, isn't it? :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSainn Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm not saying Trues or anyone else makes bad work at all. Nothing on this site is bad but we all have our personal preferences. As you said in a previous post, the anticipation for the 08 mod is ridiculous and maybe it's just my anticipation boiling over. I know the modders hate to be bugged with release date questions and whatnot and so I've bitten my tongue on numerous occasions because I respect the work they're doing. But it's now June, my team is having one of the best seasons in it's history and I wanna play a dynasty along with it, but don't wanna start until 08 is available. I joined this site in March of last year and the 07 mod was already available when I signed up so I thought that was standard procedure then this year rolls around, March comes and goes... same with April, then May and now I kinda feel like what's the use cause I'll never get caught up at this point and I know come November I'll be playin Madden again and let MVP collect dust... I know there's nothing you can do and I'm not blaming anyone... just venting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSainn Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 It's enough to make you wanna by an X-Box, isn't it? :wink: You mean a PS3? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Oh waitaminute. I forgot you were a Cubs fan for a second. Your concerns don't count anymore. Be gone with you. :wink: Just kidding, man. I know, we all know it's tough waiting for the 08 mod to come out. Trust me. I'm right there with you. Nothing I can do about it. But I know I'll enjoy it when it comes out. In the mean time, an updated roster and an updated schedule gets you awfully darn close to fully up-to-date other than minor detail-wise, if portraits and in-stadium graphical changes don't bother you. Of course, you'll miss out on the newest uniform updates and such, but hey - until the full 08 mod comes out - you gotta decide what is enough to hold you over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 You mean a PS3? lol It doesn't matter. I can barely afford toilet paper. :tired: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSainn Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 It doesn't matter. I can barely afford toilet paper. :tired: I didn't think Cardinal fans used toilet paper! lol But seriously, I'm in the same boat, if I could afford either one I probably woulda got one by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorQuiz Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I didn't think Cardinal fans used toilet paper! lol We use 100 years worth of paper that Cubs' World Series tickets WOULD have been printed on. BOOYAH! lol, just kidding, man. We all know all that paper gets used when they print hard copy of the Chicago Bears' defensive linemen's criminal reports. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumala Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Afraid not. I don't pretend to speak for all modders, but I do speak as A modder. Personally, my policy has always been that as long as you include credit for whatever work I've done, you're welcome to use it in any way you so desire. Others, however, feel differently and want to give permission for each instance that their work is utilized. It's a perfectly understandable decision, even though I can see how it would be frustrating to many users here. Some want to make sure that their work is not being changed in any way, and some want to make sure their work isn't being mistaken as someone else's, since they take a lot of pride in how it is presented. Look at it this way, modders are the ones who put tens and hundreds of hours into everything that's different from the stock game. The least we can do is let them choose how their work is presented. yeah, as it should, I just think he doesn't know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcrickards Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Here's what I don't get. Everyone knows that The Spungo is the best at uni's. So, even if the KSM mod is released w/out the Spungo's unis, everyone is going to go over to EAMods and download those anyway. Can KSM try again w/out the unis? Or can he just release his *.dat file? (And I saw a KSM in the news... maybe KSM is really 'Khalid Sheik Muhammad', the mastermind behind 9/11, and he can't release the datafile b/c he's on trial!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oo2372oo Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 where's the download?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SESbb30 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 its not up yet. and i doubt it ever does get up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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