Official Political (Republican/Democrat) Debate Thread

[JoeBlo]

They're trying to tell us the solution is to rinse, lather, repeat. UNREAL!

Re-Seeding the Housing Mess

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html

Bush and the dems in bed on the bailout? How bizarre!

[JoeBlo]

"I don't think there's any conceivable way that Sarah Palin can win a debate against Joe Biden unless pure stupidity wins out. If her record comes up, which it will, she's done for. Her popularity has nosedived lately, and she has no debate experience to go with her prior experience. As much as I dislike John McCain, he at least has experience. Sarah Palin is going to face a huge uphill battle."

Seriously? Joe Biden? This guy:

Biden's Foot-in-Mouth Disease

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...th_disease.html

Barack Obama is a clever guy, he wrote two books so everyone can live vicariously through him on his journey of self discovery, and as a bonus you can shed your White guilt in the process. Professor gets a double-rush because he gets to live vicariously through the youth he indoctrinates. It's all rather bizarre to me but what ever floats your boats kiddies. Don't say I didn't tell you so. : )

Barack Obama is the Edward Bernays of politics.

[meteamo]

Just had dealings with these Russians

President Vladimir Putin (May 2000 - May 2008; current Prime Minister)

President Boris Yeltsin (July 1991 - December 1999)

Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev (March 1990 - December 1991)

Soviet Union President Andrei Gromyko (July 1985 - October 1988)

Premier of the Soviet Union Alexey Kosygin (October 1964 - October 1980)

Okay. So, I guess seeing Russia across the border doesn't count then? I mean, Putin was even flying his plane over Palin's house. That's scary. Not for the obvious reason though ... but because Putin knows how to fly a plane.

If McCain was talking about his experience (although some of it may be outdated) with respect to Obama, then how would Palin's exprience compare with Biden?

[el_jefe061]

Don't say I didn't tell you so. : )

And don't say I didn't tell you to respond to me on Page 43.

Okay. So, I guess seeing Russia across the border doesn't count then? I mean, Putin was even flying his plane over Palin's house. That's scary. Not for the obvious reason though ... but because Putin knows how to fly a plane.

If McCain was talking about his experience (although some of it may be outdated) with respect to Obama, then how would Palin's exprience compare with Biden?

No, it definitely does not count. Not at all. She hasn't had dealings with any of the Russians. Seeing a place and dealing with a place are two different things. In fact, Sarah Palin isn't that much closer to Moscow than Washington D.C.

As for Obama vs. McCain in foreign policy, I give Obama an advantage because, despite McCain's experience, Obama isn't a continuation of failed foreign policies. Obama isn't a Washington stalwart, but his closest foreign policy advisers are people like William Cohen and Madeline Albright.

I also think that because of the "relationship" of the Bush Administration with the countries that we need on board to succeed, the NATO countries, etc, that John McCain is going to have a hard time diplomatically because of Bush. Nobody is going to want to negotiate with someone who jokes "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" and talks about spending 100 years in Iraq.

[meteamo]

They're trying to tell us the solution is to rinse, lather, repeat. UNREAL!

Re-Seeding the Housing Mess

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html

Bush and the dems in bed on the bailout? How bizarre!

This was in the opinion section of the website. Who wrote this opinion and was there anything they left out or stated that wasn't entirely true?

The comment about Bush and dems in bed together ... where are the republicans in all of this? And weren't they close to a deal before McCain's interference? If there's no solution and both sides play politics then I can see all the other global markets start to collapse. Politics should be put aside on this issue and to say Bush in bed with Dems ... perhaps they are just working toward a non-poliitcal solution. I don't know what the republicans are doing. And besides, they shouldn't be coming up with a plan for this. Where are the economists, treasury guys and others that would know what to do opposed to these senators?

BTW ... was it McCain or Palin that wanted to bomb a NATO country? LOL

[el_jefe061]

As a Democrat, I don't think the Democratic congress has done a good enough job of standing up to George Bush. They've essentially toed the line with Bush, bending over on his every whim.

[OTBjoel]

I thought this wasn't supposed to get ugly or personal? Leave it up to the conservatives to start the personal attacks. They know no other way. Problem is, when you are only concerned with two issues (military and economic) and ignore all the others, you are kind of screwed when you have half of your eggs in the proverbial basket go bad. Or have all of them gone bad? The conservatives are always demanding that America wake up. Maybe they should be the ones to be awoken from this bad time warp we are in. It's just my hope that come Nov. 5th, we will see the dark clouds upon us start to part. I will not vote for a one issue candidate and I think that I speak for other progressives in that we prefer somebody who pays more attention to a diversity of issues.

As far as their records goes, McCain should feel fortunate that Obama does not bring up the "Keating 5" investigation. Yes, Mccain was cleared but he was still censured for "poor judgement". I guess McCain gets a pass on this because anything McCain did before 1992 should be considered to be part of the "history books" as was suggested on Fox News. So if Keating gets a pass on the Keating 5 then should we forget about his POW history as well. After all, this is a major part of his character and part of the platform he is running on. So the Democrats are giving McCain a huge pass on an unfavorable part of his history while its ok for him to take credit for his military service.

Shoe on the other foot, there is no way the Repubs would let this go (Keating 5). They would dig up that dead carcass like it happened yesterday. Just as there is no way they would have let Bristol Palin get a free pass if she were say, Joe Biden or Obama's daughter. Conservatives are the biggest hypocrites on earth. If you want to label Dems as also being morally corrupt, that is fine. We have never claimed to own the market on moral values. Both sides are probably just as corrupt as the other but most progressives aren't the ones pretending to judge as those on the extreme right do often enough.

****! It wasn't supposed to get ugly or personal on this thread. Sorry, I had to respond.

[meteamo]

What do people think of the website http://www.factcheck.org?

Their take on the debate:

Fact Check Pres. Debate 1 of 3

Only question from this is:

Didn't Obama state the % that would see no tax increase would be for working families or the people of America? The site says one and my friend says the other.

And does anyone know the actual story of McCain's history of a POW and how he was captured ... or point me in the right place? I've been researching quite a bit on the Internet and I came across three different stories almost contradicting each other. Thanks.

*edit*

In doing some searching regarding the POW issue, I stumbled across the following video. What was the video about? Was it regarding the benefits for those that were in Vietnam and the World Wars? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg

[JoeBlo]

"And don't say I didn't tell you to respond to me on Page 43."

Which one LOL!

Citing apologist post from the lazy MSM that 69% of people polled believe is in the tank for Obama is not citing facts. It's citing democrat talking points.

Obama was in bed with Fannie and Freddie just like Dodd. Please! Do your own homework and stop relying on a lazy MSM that is tanking for Obama and regurgitating his talking points.

Honest non-partisan historians are going to have a field day with this election and it isn't going to bode well for journalistic standards within the MSM. Contrary to what professor might teach you it's not a journalist job to deliver social justice, save the world, defend one candidate while attacking another etc... It's they're jo to just report the facts, not twist them or omit them to try and shape the reader's opinion one way or another. The Framers must be rolling in their graves with this Pravda style journalism these days. For goodness sake the NY-Times plastered a story insinuating McCain had an affair with sourcing from a someone's cousin whose uncle knew the sister of a guy who was fired from the campaign. Kidding but you know what I mean and which story I'm sure.

Perhaps you can answer this one question?

"Maybe someone can find out something about Barack America's lost years – his undergraduate years – at Columbia. Nobody seems to remember him or what he did or accomplished. Oh ... and there's that missing Senior Essay." -Neil Boortz

[JoeBlo]

"What do people think of the website http://www.factcheck.org?"

They've been known to omit facts and or context.

For example the Kissenger he said/he said. What McCain said about Obama was in the context of the original question asked long ago in the democrat Youtube debate.

---------

In the debate, Obama was asked if he would be willing to meet — without precondition — in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea.

"I would," he responded.

Clinton said she would not.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/24/...in3094391.shtml

----------

What Kissenger said after the debate was the following:

"Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality." --Henry Kissenger

Notice the geared toward reality comment at the end there by Kissenger, he said that because he knew the context of which McCain was saying it. Factcheck.org didn't tell you Obama tried weaseling because the question wasn't about high level officials the original question was directed directly at Senator Obama asking if he were President would he meet with Akmed-In-Jihad, Obama said yes. Hillary pounced on him the second he did too and rightfully so, McCain also pointed out the reasons why its a bad idea in the debate.

Hope that helps but me thinks factcheck.org is one of those "Hardball" type things you see on MSNBC with Chris Matthews ie democrat apologist.

[JoeBlo]

"And does anyone know the actual story of McCain's history of a POW and how he was captured ... or point me in the right place? I've been researching quite a bit on the Internet and I came across three different stories almost contradicting each other. Thanks."

John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account

By John S. McCain III, Lieut. Commander, U.S. Navy

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/0...on-account.html

"It's pretty clear there are two questions we will never have to ask ourselves[about McCain], 'Who is this man?' and 'Can we trust this man with the presidency?'" -Fred Thompson

[JoeBlo]

"Only question from this is:

Didn't Obama state the % that would see no tax increase would be for working families or the people of America? The site says one and my friend says the other."

Again look at apologetics and excuse making at factcheck.org. How the Heck do 95% or even 83% of families factcheck says get tax breaks when around 40 million people don't even pay income taxes at all? How does one who doesn't pay a tax get a tax break? Are we buying votes for the Presidency now?

Fiscal facts

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/542.html

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. --?

[JoeBlo]

Obama is a Marxist and your first clue should be the fact he talks about how many homes and cars McCain owns. McCain earned his money the old fashioned American way, he married it. Besides that her family built their business from the ground up and she expanded it when she took over. It's the American dream and we all wish we could so well.

Churchill said it best.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." -Winston Churchill

Think about this for one minute. Socialism is somehwere in the middle of capitalism and communism. Lenin even said it was the go between to get from capitalism to communism. It doesn't matter because what Gailbraith said is true.

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -John Kenneth Galbraith

Socialism is somewhere in the middle of "man exploiting man and man exploiting man". NUTS! I'll take capitalism thank you very much because I like my freedom!

"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -Alexis de Tocqueville

Explain the above to liberal professor and watch him foam at the mouth and flunk you ***. : )

[el_jefe061]

Now, I give you the radical conservative argument:

Liberal media. All lies. Only Fox News. 9/11... 9/11. Communists. Socialism. Scientists and professors and colleges are liars. 9/11. Cut taxes. You can be rich. Rush Limbaugh says "...". She can see Alaska from her house. Barack Obama wants you to have abortions. 9/11. Liberal... oooooooooooh. Fear fear fear. Ronald Reagan, Abraham Lincoln. 9/11. Experience. They'll raise your taxes. 9/11. Spread democracy. Cut taxes. Terror loving terrorists.

Obama is a Marxist and your first clue should be the fact he talks about how many homes and cars McCain owns. McCain earned his money the old fashioned American way, he married it. Besides that her family built their business from the ground up and she expanded it when she took over. It's the American dream and we all wish we could so well.

Although you are a joke, and this is a serious quote, I find this the funniest thing I've ever read: "McCain earned his money the old fashioned American way, he married it." You, being the steel trap, missed the point that John McCain is not in touch with middle class Americans. Has he ever held a real job in his life? All he's ever done is damn near flunk out of West Point, crash airplanes, and abide by the same code that all other pilots did. If John McCain's dad didn't get him into West Point on a silver spoon, where would he be today?

Also, if I hear any bullshit about me talking about John McCain's record, I will right you a goddamn book on how John Kerry was ten times the War Hero John McCain was.

Explain the above to liberal professor and watch him foam at the mouth and flunk you ****. : )

This is LAUGHABLE. LOL LOL! Is that all you have to say? You didn't support a single thing you said. You've cited nothing. You've just spewed Radical B.S. without anything to back it up. You quote right wing nutjobs and expect that to have a be-all end-all effect. You've given no facts. You lose.

I cite real sources, and this is from the classic Conservative "playbook", and you blame mainstream media, because all of the media and intellectuals are a joke, right? Any "media" is liberal kooks, right? Sounds like those right wing neocon wackos who dismiss Global Warming.

Stop dodging my questions that have backed you into a corner and stop blaming the media because we've lived under eight years of failed policies.

Can I call this guy an idiot? Please? Lock this ****, the people who don't think their **** don't stink are mucking things up. I'm doing it anyway: You are a neocon Conservative Wacko. I've got some land in the backwoods of Idaho that would be GREAT for you.

[meteamo]

JoeBlo:

Didn't someone about 5 or 8 pages ago say don't post about 5 times in a row? Why do you keep on doing it? It gets annoying. There is a button called "edit". Stop trying to drown everyone out by posting 5 times or so in a row.

* edit *

It was page 38.

Joe try using the "edit" button instead of posting 5 things in a row

[krawhitham]

"And does anyone know the actual story of McCain's history of a POW and how he was captured ... or point me in the right place? I've been researching quite a bit on the Internet and I came across three different stories almost contradicting each other. Thanks."

John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account

By John S. McCain III, Lieut. Commander, U.S. Navy

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/0...on-account.html

"It's pretty clear there are two questions we will never have to ask ourselves[about McCain], 'Who is this man?' and 'Can we trust this man with the presidency?'" -Fred Thompson

No Fred we do not need to ask

From your posted article, within 72 hours this is the man John McCain is

I said, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

Within 72 hours he was selling out his own men and endangering real heroes

Is that someone you can trust with the presidency?

[el_jefe061]

Didn't someone about 5 or 8 pages ago say don't post about 5 times in a row? Why do you keep on doing it? It gets annoying. There is a button called "edit". Stop trying to drown everyone out by posting 5 times or so in a row.

And to stop dodging people who call him out on his unsubstantiated B.S. JoeBlo, I'll give you an update. My latest post was on Page 46. You can also go back to page 43 to answer all my questions, if you have the goods to do it.

[Kayxero]

I dont get republicans. I really dont. With the economy the way it is based of your parties favor of deregulation, and shouting matches in bailout talks, I just dont understand how youd stay on that side and be blind.

Not to mention the horrid interview Palin had with Katie Couric. She stuttered and bs'ed her way through the economic and foreign policy questions. She needs to quit thinking her proximity to Russia and Canada gives her poreign policy experience. As if she has ever sat and had any meaningful talk with their officials.

Watch this sad interview Joe and try and tell me how shed be a good VP, or even president if something ever happened to McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ

Thursday night is going to be delicious. We were all a bit disappointed by the lack luster presidential debate. But we know Biden is going to jump on her good and proper. And not in a good way *wink wink*.

It will be like throwing a steak to the lions at the Bronx Zoo.

[piratesmvp04]

Hey, SeanO. What's your opinion on the $700 billion bailout bill?

[duckdodger215]

Now, I give you the radical conservative argument:

Liberal media. All lies. Only Fox News. 9/11... 9/11. Communists. Socialism. Scientists and professors and colleges are liars. 9/11. Cut taxes. You can be rich. Rush Limbaugh says "...". She can see Alaska from her house. Barack Obama wants you to have abortions. 9/11. Liberal... oooooooooooh. Fear fear fear. Ronald Reagan, Abraham Lincoln. 9/11. Experience. They'll raise your taxes. 9/11. Spread democracy. Cut taxes. Terror loving terrorists.

Although you are a joke, and this is a serious quote, I find this the funniest thing I've ever read: "McCain earned his money the old fashioned American way, he married it." You, being the steel trap, missed the point that John McCain is not in touch with middle class Americans. Has he ever held a real job in his life? All he's ever done is **** near flunk out of West Point, crash airplanes, and abide by the same code that all other pilots did. If John McCain's dad didn't get him into West Point on a silver spoon, where would he be today?

Also, if I hear any **** about me talking about John McCain's record, I will right you a goddamn book on how John Kerry was ten times the War Hero John McCain was.

This is LAUGHABLE. LOL LOL! Is that all you have to say? You didn't support a single thing you said. You've cited nothing. You've just spewed Radical B.S. without anything to back it up. You quote right wing nutjobs and expect that to have a be-all end-all effect. You've given no facts. You lose.

I cite real sources, and this is from the classic Conservative "playbook", and you blame mainstream media, because all of the media and intellectuals are a joke, right? Any "media" is liberal kooks, right? Sounds like those right wing neocon wackos who dismiss Global Warming.

Stop dodging my questions that have backed you into a corner and stop blaming the media because we've lived under eight years of failed policies.

Can I call this guy an idiot? Please? Lock this ****, the people who don't think their **** don't stink are mucking things up. I'm doing it anyway: You are a neocon Conservative Wacko. I've got some land in the backwoods of Idaho that would be GREAT for you.

if you can't be respectful in debating without getting an attitude towards a reply then find another place to go post your comments, including blasphemy.

[UncleMo]

No Fred we do not need to ask

From your posted article, within 72 hours this is the man John McCain is

Within 72 hours he was selling out his own men and endangering real heroes

Is that someone you can trust with the presidency?

Read the entire story. He never did that, although he did say that. If you read the whole story you find it that he helped keep some of his fellow prisoners going.

And you ask a good question. No, you can't trust him, or Obama, with the presidency.

[Rome-o-phobe]

Hey Kayxero,

Don't give that BS about Palin giving a Bad Interview. Everyone gives a bad interview once in a while and oh guess what.......Biden can't talk straight at a campain rally let alone an interview, he keeps screwing up, he flip flops and goes against Obama's view points! Following your logic, he is SO MUCH WORSE than Sarah Palin at speaking, so how could we possibly have HIM as a Vice President?

AND Also if you knew ANYTHING about Econamics you would know that deregulation is GOOD, and if something goes wrong, history proves that the market will ALWAYS correct itself. The only reason Fanny May and Freddy Mac should be regulated is becasue they are GOVERNMENT RUN. If something is Gov. run it should be regulated as a check and balance system. BUT the private sector should be regulated as little as possible. The more we are regulated, the more Government has control of our lives, and the more freedom we lose. McCain/Palin is the ONLY plausible choice to run our country out of the choices we have it this election.

And To el_jefe061:

John Kerry was 10 times the war hero McCain was????????? McCain was TORTURED FOR HIS COUNTRY for 5 YEARS! and He didn't break! John Kerry ADMITTED to being a war criminal, and yet he has 3 Purple hearts......Ok so one guy gets tortured for his country and the other is an admitted war criminal, NOW tell me who is more of a war hero: The Answer is McCain.

larrysc4 If If I'm not mistaking, after McCain said he'd give the names so he could go to the hospital, he proceded to name one of the lines (either Offensive or Defensive, I dont remember) Of The Greenbay Packers!!!! Don't just take little lines from an article....use it in context

[Sean O]

AND Also if you knew ANYTHING about Econamics you would know that deregulation is GOOD, and if something goes wrong, history proves that the market will ALWAYS correct itself.

The religious devotion to the free market is so idiotic. This is the free market going wild, and it has destroyed the lives and equity of millions. The market will correct itself, but at the expense of innocent parties. From everything we've been hearing from the right, these people don't matter anyway.

[Sean O]

Hey, SeanO. What's your opinion on the $700 billion bailout bill?

sh*t sandwich, but better than any alternatives. I think the dems caved too much when it came to regulation and making sure wall street pays for what they did. Not that it matters, since it went down in flames, taking the Dow / S&P / TSX with it.

if you can't be respectful in debating without getting an attitude towards a reply then find another place to go post your comments, including blasphemy.

How many times do we have to go over this? You don't get to tell people what to do around here.

[duckdodger215]

sh*t sandwich, but better than any alternatives. I think the dems caved too much when it came to regulation and making sure wall street pays for what they did. Not that it matters, since it went down in flames, taking the Dow / S&P / TSX with it.

How many times do we have to go over this? You don't get to tell people what to do around here.

sorry, king, i didn't realize that you let the left-wingers say whatever they want to towards mccain supporters. thanks for proving to everyone what a double standard there is here. but, wait, it must be our fault, right?