Official Political (Republican/Democrat) Debate Thread

[DeuceBlades]

The reason workers are ABLE to leave their jobs, is because the government dole has become so HUGE that many Americans, sadly, feel as though its the responsibility of the govt. to take care of them cradle to grave. That includes having the ability to walk away from their job, and know the govt will be there to give them welfare. It includes the ability to bear more children than they can afford to support,without the father, and the govt. steps in as surrogate daddy.

I believe Obama is preaching class warfare, and redistribution of wealth, disguising it as "compassion" and "change" and wants to EXPAND the already too large govt.

That's the type of "plan" I cannot support. The last thing on this earth I want the United States of America to become, is a European type nation. I lived there for two years, it's not what i want for our country.

So Im correct in guessing that your pretty wealthy then? What has a republican ever done for you, if your not rich? Im not racist, but you are right on the subject of welfare. Blacks and legal hispanics have overwhelmed the system. Im not saying its right or wrong, but something needs to be done to overhaul this system. At last check, I believe this administration has increased government size by leaps and bounds over the last 8 years, and not to mention spending. Dont get me started on that issue. I never seen a republican administration that kept the books in the black.....never. All the problems we are going through, happened on Bush's watch. You cant blame it on another, when if your in charge, you have the ability to change what needs to be changed, instead of worrying about what dictator to take out next.

[el_jefe061]

I don't disagree with anything you said. I just think you shouldn't say that corporations don't run the economy because that is so wrong. It a combination of both sides: corporations producing products and jobs, and consumers taking the money earned from those jobs and buying the products.

Agree to disagree, because I believe the strength of our economy is the middle class, not corporations.

At first when I read this, I was a bit upset. Honestly, it's funny (or sick, or sad) that Presidential Campaign Politics have come to this. Having served with men who were in similar situations as Senator McCain, and having heard their similar stories, I just cannot discount what it meant to be held captive by the North Vietnamese.

Is McCain a hero for being a POW? I don't think he would even say that he is. I think the point is that he did his best while imprisoned, and when he got out after 7 years, didn't turn on his country (which had made some bad errors and mistakes in an unpopular war), and went on to continue serving honorably.

Is MCain a war hero? Probably not by his standards, but he has embodied the American spirit; even when things are at thier absolute worst, HANG on, HANG in there, PERSEVERE and do the best you can with what you have in your given situation.

While I don't agree with Senator McCain on all of his policies and plans for the Presidency, I don't hate him because he has transformed a horrible, nightmarish situation into motivation for himself to serve and persevere. I do respect the man for being willing to climb into that Skyhawk that day, and attempt to do a job many of us won't or cannot.

I don't doubt that John McCain suffered greatly while in Vietnam. I do, however, question his character. This article is one of many that has characterized him as an opportunist and a sleaze. He committed adultery against a wife who had suffered disfiguring injuries. McCain received special treatment due to his family naval pedigree. He shouldn't have been even flying any planes. He crashed three planes during his career.

I don't believe his military motivations were anything more than Top Gun aspirations. I don't think his motivations for President are anything more than John McCain first, not "country first".

I think his military record and his character are overblown. Here's a mediocre pilot who reached status on a silver spoon, did nothing in Vietnam but save himself in Vietnam, displayed extremely questionable character and an outrageous temper during his life and career, and divorced a wife because she was no longer of model status, cheating on her while they were still married. Here's a man who participated in one of the biggest bank scandals in history, an unprecedented one even today. A man who's spent his political career in the pocket of lobbyists.

John McCain did nothing but save himself and exhibit the most basic human instinct of survival. He broke the code in Vietnam, and didn't take the deal to get out of that camp because what he'd face back home would be much worse. He did nothing above and beyond what the other people who were captured did. The only live he saved was his own. Guys like John Kerry, George H.W. Bush, JFK, Max Cleeland, those people saved lives. They're war heroes.

I question John McCain's character, his "war hero" status, his policies, his intelligence, his ability to lead, his "country first" BS, and him as a genuine human being.

Do I question his toughness? No, because two and a half years being tortured by the Vietnamese, followed by another 3 in camp, earns you the right to be called tough. It does not earn you the right to be called a war hero.

However, it is more than George W. Bush did.

[lautrec]

Agree to disagree, because I believe the strength of our economy is the middle class, not corporations.

I don't doubt that John McCain suffered greatly while in Vietnam. I do, however, question his character. This article is one of many that has characterized him as an opportunist and a sleaze. He committed adultery against a wife who had suffered disfiguring injuries. McCain received special treatment due to his family naval pedigree. He shouldn't have been even flying any planes. He crashed three planes during his career.

I don't believe his military motivations were anything more than Top Gun aspirations. I don't think his motivations for President are anything more than John McCain first, not "country first".

I think his military record and his character are overblown. Here's a mediocre pilot who reached status on a silver spoon, did nothing in Vietnam but save himself in Vietnam, displayed extremely questionable character and an outrageous temper during his life and career, and divorced a wife because she was no longer of model status, cheating on her while they were still married. Here's a man who participated in one of the biggest bank scandals in history, an unprecedented one even today. A man who's spent his political career in the pocket of lobbyists.

John McCain did nothing but save himself and exhibit the most basic human instinct of survival. He broke the code in Vietnam, and didn't take the deal to get out of that camp because what he'd face back home would be much worse. He did nothing above and beyond what the other people who were captured did. The only live he saved was his own. Guys like John Kerry, George H.W. Bush, JFK, Max Cleeland, those people saved lives. They're war heroes.

I question John McCain's character, his "war hero" status, his policies, his intelligence, his ability to lead, his "country first" BS, and him as a genuine human being.

Do I question his toughness? No, because two and a half years being tortured by the Vietnamese, followed by another 3 in camp, earns you the right to be called tough. It does not earn you the right to be called a war hero.

However, it is more than George W. Bush did.

Well, you certainly have the right to question a man's character. I do not question John McCain's character inasmuch he's a politician, same as Barak Obama, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, GWB, et. al..

While I do not believe many of the things you have referenced to McCain, I do not doubt that he, like Obama is a flawed human being. Aren't we all? Did McCain cheat on his wife? I don't know. Did Clinton cheat on his wife? Did/does it affect their ability to effeciently govern? Those are questions that must be asked and dealt with.

I cannot presume to know for fact all the John McCain may or may not have done, good or bad. I do know what his voting record in the Senate is, and do do what his platforms are, and what he says he'll propose to do as President. I also know how Obama voted, and what his platform and plans as President are. Based on that, and not things I can neither verify or believe (about either one of the candidates) I will cast my vote.

[lautrec]

So Im correct in guessing that your pretty wealthy then? What has a republican ever done for you, if your not rich? Im not racist, but you are right on the subject of welfare. Blacks and legal hispanics have overwhelmed the system. Im not saying its right or wrong, but something needs to be done to overhaul this system. At last check, I believe this administration has increased government size by leaps and bounds over the last 8 years, and not to mention spending. Dont get me started on that issue. I never seen a republican administration that kept the books in the black.....never. All the problems we are going through, happened on Bush's watch. You cant blame it on another, when if your in charge, you have the ability to change what needs to be changed, instead of worrying about what dictator to take out next.

Wealth is a subjective thing. You and I may have differing opinions as to what constitutes wealth. Is it money, land, happiness, satisfaction, security, service? In many ways, I consider myself wealthy. I am blessed to live in the United States, forgoing many of the sufferings of fellow humans in other, less fortunate countries. But that only applies to money.

I'm blessed to have a loving, supportive family, and a close ring of friends. I'm blessed to have a call to serve others, sometimes sacrificing my own wealth to help others. I'm wealthy in knowledge of who is ultimately in control and not worrying about about what dictator is doing what to whom.

Classifying yourself as either Republican or Democrat is a ticky issue, in my opinion. The sides have polarized themselves, and they aren't coming together any time too soon. What's a Repub. done for me? What's a Dem. ever done for me? Why do I even care what a politician does for me? I don't need them to DO for me,,,,that's why there is class struggle and warfare now, and welfare enslavement.

I vote pretty much based on which of the two evils is going to do LESS to me. I also vote for who is more Pro-Life. It's simply a big issue to me. I'm not going to preach to anyone else about that, it's my own concern, and I tend to vote with that in consideration.

If I have the wealth you are guessing (money, I presume?), then it merely frees me a little to try to help out those who need it. I personally think, that in my community (with many needy people), I have a better feel and can administer to their needs, in accordance to my spiritual beliefs and serve a group a people WAY better than a government beauracracy that has concerns of distribution, quotas, and OVERHEAD to deal with.

[el_jefe061]

Well, you certainly have the right to question a man's character. I do not question John McCain's character inasmuch he's a politician, same as Barak Obama, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, GWB, et. al..

While I do not believe many of the things you have referenced to McCain, I do not doubt that he, like Obama is a flawed human being. Aren't we all? Did McCain cheat on his wife? I don't know. Did Clinton cheat on his wife? Did/does it affect their ability to effeciently govern? Those are questions that must be asked and dealt with.

I cannot presume to know for fact all the John McCain may or may not have done, good or bad. I do know what his voting record in the Senate is, and do do what his platforms are, and what he says he'll propose to do as President. I also know how Obama voted, and what his platform and plans as President are. Based on that, and not things I can neither verify or believe (about either one of the candidates) I will cast my vote.

McCain's sins go beyond the average flaw. It's public record he cheated on his wife. It's public record he was one of five senators to defend a man who cheated the American people out of hundreds of billions of dollars.

Bill Clinton cheated on his wife repeatedly, but John McCain cheated on a woman who was near crippled and no longer possessed the physical beauty she once had. It displayed a cowardice that Barack Obama, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and most politicians have ever shown.

If you're going to cast your vote for John McCain based on what he "says" he'll do, because John McCain has said a lot of things. Here is a man who has been proven as a massive flip flopper, that goes beyond politician and into snake in the grass opportunist territory. John McCain, as you can ask his first wife, is not a man of his work. Ask the people who were captured with him in Vietnam, how is not a man of honor or truth.

Ask the fellow politicians who have worked with McCain for years, and see what they say about the "2008" McCain, and how he sticks to his "maverick" principles. You may think you know his platforms, what he believes, and what he says he'll do. His first wife, former fellow POWs, and colleagues thought they did too.

[lautrec]

McCain's sins go beyond the average flaw. It's public record he cheated on his wife. It's public record he was one of five senators to defend a man who cheated the American people out of hundreds of billions of dollars.

Bill Clinton cheated on his wife repeatedly, but John McCain cheated on a woman who was near crippled and no longer possessed the physical beauty she once had. It displayed a cowardice that Barack Obama, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and most politicians have ever shown.

If you're going to cast your vote for John McCain based on what he "says" he'll do, because John McCain has said a lot of things. Here is a man who has been proven as a massive flip flopper, that goes beyond politician and into snake in the grass opportunist territory. John McCain, as you can ask his first wife, is not a man of his work. Ask the people who were captured with him in Vietnam, how is not a man of honor or truth.

Ask the fellow politicians who have worked with McCain for years, and see what they say about the "2008" McCain, and how he sticks to his "maverick" principles. You may think you know his platforms, what he believes, and what he says he'll do. His first wife, former fellow POWs, and colleagues thought they did too.

El Jefe, I'm not really trying to argue with you, particularly on negatives that nowadays it seems ALL campaigns try to throw in our faces. I think that to say McCain's an opportunist is to describe ALL politicians. Again, he's flawed, so we are all. His "sins" are exaggerated and ran out so vehemently that we feel justified in making him into some sort of monster that he really isn't, similar to Bill Clinton's fiasco. If you are a firm believer in this character attack on mcCain, well, I'll never change your opinion.

I don't particularly like much of the things that B. Obama has done, either. If I wanted, I could paint him as many things, that he probably isn't. I'm just not going to go there, because it is NOT germain to voting for him or against him.

I'm not voting on solely for what he says he'll do. I'm also looking at his senate voting record. As, I've examined Biden's and Obama's. I've also tried to look at what has happened with Palin in Alaska. That's how I'll make my decision. The other stuff is "He said, She said".

[DeuceBlades]

Wealth is a subjective thing. You and I may have differing opinions as to what constitutes wealth. Is it money, land, happiness, satisfaction, security, service? In many ways, I consider myself wealthy. I am blessed to live in the United States, forgoing many of the sufferings of fellow humans in other, less fortunate countries. But that only applies to money.

I'm blessed to have a loving, supportive family, and a close ring of friends. I'm blessed to have a call to serve others, sometimes sacrificing my own wealth to help others. I'm wealthy in knowledge of who is ultimately in control and not worrying about about what dictator is doing what to whom.

Classifying yourself as either Republican or Democrat is a ticky issue, in my opinion. The sides have polarized themselves, and they aren't coming together any time too soon. What's a Repub. done for me? What's a Dem. ever done for me? Why do I even care what a politician does for me? I don't need them to DO for me,,,,that's why there is class struggle and warfare now, and welfare enslavement.

I vote pretty much based on which of the two evils is going to do LESS to me. I also vote for who is more Pro-Life. It's simply a big issue to me. I'm not going to preach to anyone else about that, it's my own concern, and I tend to vote with that in consideration.

If I have the wealth you are guessing (money, I presume?), then it merely frees me a little to try to help out those who need it. I personally think, that in my community (with many needy people), I have a better feel and can administer to their needs, in accordance to my spiritual beliefs and serve a group a people WAY better than a government beauracracy that has concerns of distribution, quotas, and OVERHEAD to deal with.

So say your sister or mother gets raped (pray to god that never happens, but for argument sake) She gets pregnant, what would she do? carry it to birth? I dont think so. Women who are raped, pregnant through incest or health to the mother, need the right to choice. Im sorry, this is a non issue, and overturning Rowe v. Wade is what the Reps want to do. Im voting against that, to keep it from happening. People talk about religion and government together, but what we would wind up as, is a radical christian state, he11 bent on the destruction of other religions, muslim being one of them. Look at Palin, already wanting more power? The Republicans want to do away with the constitution. Bush already tried to do away with habeous corpas (and maybe succeeded). There is a reason for checks and balances, but given time, the Republican admin, present, and the next one coming into office (I hope not), will destroy the very premise this country was built on. One already succeeded in destroying the economy. Say what you will, but 8 years is enough to fix the problem, or correct the problem from becoming bigger. Hes to damm worried about his fathers name and his pride, by fighting this stupid Iraq war that had nothing to do with nothing.

and quite frankly, Im not ready for a woman VP, who answers questions with "my record on this, or my record on that. What record? She doesnt have a record either. I can see her first meeting with the King of Jordan. King Hussein, let me show you my record on energy and my foriegn relations record with Russia. I saw Putins head, heres a picture of him and his airplane in Alaskan airspace. Did I tell you I can see his front porch from my house? :roll: Shes about as fit to lead as my left pinky.

[AstroEric]

Dammit, North Carolina's going to decide the election and I just moved my vote to lousy New York.

[el_jefe061]

El Jefe, I'm not really trying to argue with you, particularly on negatives that nowadays it seems ALL campaigns try to throw in our faces. I think that to say McCain's an opportunist is to describe ALL politicians. Again, he's flawed, so we are all. His "sins" are exaggerated and ran out so vehemently that we feel justified in making him into some sort of monster that he really isn't, similar to Bill Clinton's fiasco. If you are a firm believer in this character attack on mcCain, well, I'll never change your opinion.

I don't particularly like much of the things that B. Obama has done, either. If I wanted, I could paint him as many things, that he probably isn't. I'm just not going to go there, because it is NOT germain to voting for him or against him.

I'm not voting on solely for what he says he'll do. I'm also looking at his senate voting record. As, I've examined Biden's and Obama's. I've also tried to look at what has happened with Palin in Alaska. That's how I'll make my decision. The other stuff is "He said, She said".

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. John McCain has been proven to be many things, and none of them are Presidential. The things he's done go beyond minor flaws and exaggerated rumors. Most, if not all, are verified by second party accounts. Nothing has been proven concrete with Barack Obama; many things have been proven about John McCain that go beyond the average politician or average person's flaws.

Barack Obama may maim kittens and beat up hookers on trips to Vegas, as I just made up, but we don't know that. We do know, and it's been proven, that John McCain is a coward adulterer beyond anything Bill Clinton did, a man who defended someone who stole from the American people, and a man unstable enough to call his wife a c*nt and a trollop in front of reporters. These, are not rumors or "ifs", or things Barack Obama has done, these are the facts. If the truth is a character attack, so be it. If these are just "flaws" then John McCain is flawed beyond repair.

[lautrec]

So say your sister or mother gets raped (pray to god that never happens, but for argument sake) She gets pregnant, what would she do? carry it to birth? I dont think so. Women who are raped, pregnant through incest or health to the mother, need the right to choice. Im sorry, this is a non issue, and overturning Rowe v. Wade is what the Reps want to do. Im voting against that, to keep it from happening. People talk about religion and government together, but what we would wind up as, is a radical christian state, he11 bent on the destruction of other religions, muslim being one of them. Look at Palin, already wanting more power? The Republicans want to do away with the constitution. Bush already tried to do away with habeous corpas (and maybe succeeded). There is a reason for checks and balances, but given time, the Republican admin, present, and the next one coming into office (I hope not), will destroy the very premise this country was built on. One already succeeded in destroying the economy. Say what you will, but 8 years is enough to fix the problem, or correct the problem from becoming bigger. Hes to damm worried about his fathers name and his pride, by fighting this stupid Iraq war that had nothing to do with nothing.

and quite frankly, Im not ready for a woman VP, who answers questions with "my record on this, or my record on that. What record? She doesnt have a record either. I can see her first meeting with the King of Jordan. King Hussein, let me show you my record on energy and my foriegn relations record with Russia. I saw Putins head, heres a picture of him and his airplane in Alaskan airspace. Did I tell you I can see his front porch from my house? :roll: Shes about as fit to lead as my left pinky.

I'm not going to debate you about abortion, because it's always going to come down to personal beliefs. I don't think, however, you are qualified to say what my sister or daughter or any of my realtion would do if they were raped. That is projection, and you cannot say how others would react. That line of reasoning is illogical, and makes for mud slinging, name calling rants, and does NOT promote staid, rational debate.

I personally, am ready for a woman VP. I'm not a huge Hillary Clinton fan, but though she often refers to her record, I think she is qualified on the basis of service, albeit brief in comparison to Biden.

Look, you are going to vote according to your personal beliefs and I will as well. I would love to see abortion abolished with the exception of the mother's life in danger. As it stands now, we still have the Roe v Wade decison, and as citizen, I am bound to accept it, but as an American, I am free to disagree and vote for those who would overturn that decision. It's a personal belief and most likely, the court ruling will continue to remain, as I also think more and more voters are for it. I have to accept what the country votes for. I don't have to like it or embrace it, but I do have to live with it.

I personally like Sarah Palin alot. I like the fact that she has at least governed something, as opposed to John McCain, who has not. I like the fact that she is a mother. I like the fact that she's Alaskan and not from a large city or the east or west coast. But most of all, I like her policies and I tend to agree with her on many issues.

[el_jefe061]

I think McCain seems to be avoiding specifics, while Obama has been more specific but seems more prepared to pound the same message over and over. McCain talks about vague things like "stopping special interests, repairing Social Security, yada yada" while Obama talks about specific repairs, then reverting to something he said earlier.

I think these debates need to have follow up questions and be a little more loose, instead of (again) short speeches following one another.

[Kccitystar]

McCain summary:

Surge

Lieberman

My Friends

Ronald Reagan

Surge

My Friends

Surge

My Friends

My Friends

My Friends

My Friends

[el_jefe061]

I think the "Speak Softly, Carry a Big Stick" statement that McCain made about Obama goes beyond ridiculous. Conservative or Liberal, we all know John McCain wanted to go into Iraq. All of the things he said, "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran", "Next stop Baghdad", and calling for the annihilation of North Korea, completely goes against him. That's a blunder if I've ever seen one.

[catzrthecoolest]

As you should know by now those things (bomb iran, etc.) that he said was a joke... why do people take such things so seriously. and i've never heard of such callings for the annihilation of north korea.

[el_jefe061]

As you should know by now those things (bomb iran, etc.) that he said was a joke... why do people take such things so seriously. and i've never heard of such callings for the annihilation of north korea.

As I should know? So what? Is a person in his position one who should be JOKING about something so serious? Joking about American lives. Joke or not you know he has blue balls to bomb Iran. Do I have to pull up everything John McCain has said to prove that he wants to attack Iran?

It's ridiculous for a warhawk like McCain to accuse Obama of being one. For years, it's been Democrats don't have the balls to go after other countries when we need to. THEN, when Obama says the right thing, he's a WAR MONGER? Ridiculous. Really stupid too.

[GEOLINK]

As you should know by now those things (bomb iran, etc.) that he said was a joke... why do people take such things so seriously. and i've never heard of such callings for the annihilation of north korea.

this isn't about joking.

McCain should take this stuff seriously we are in tough times, no time for jokes.

[el_jefe061]

To use a term from college football, that was a "chippy" debate. I wish they would just let them loose. I was waiting for Tom Brokaw to choke someone. I thought John McCain was the angry old man, it was Brokaw.

[Kccitystar]

As you should know by now those things (bomb iran, etc.) that he said was a joke... why do people take such things so seriously. and i've never heard of such callings for the annihilation of north korea.

Ahahaha yes, tell the country that you joke about bombing other countries when you're running for President

[catzrthecoolest]

As I should know? So what? Is a person in his position one who should be JOKING about something so serious? Joking about American lives. Joke or not you know he has blue balls to bomb Iran. Do I have to pull up everything John McCain has said to prove that he wants to attack Iran?

It's ridiculous for a warhawk like McCain to accuse Obama of being one. For years, it's been Democrats don't have the balls to go after other countries when we need to. THEN, when Obama says the right thing, he's a WAR MONGER? Ridiculous. Really stupid too.

Well it is not wrong to want to "go after other countries", but it is generally a bad idea to announce such things on national television, which is what I think Mccain meant. And if you've seen the video of the "bomb iran" incident, he was speaking at some meeting of veterans like himself and he was obviously not saying it in a very serious manner

[el_jefe061]

Well it is not wrong to want to "go after other countries", but it is generally a bad idea to announce such things on national television, which is what I think Mccain meant. And if you've seen the video of the "bomb iran" incident, he was speaking at some meeting of veterans like himself and he was obviously not saying it in a very serious manner

I'll say it before: SO WHAT? Like everyone else just said, you can't joke about foreign policy things like that. When there's smoke there's fire, and John McCain wants to go into Iran, joke or not. What do you think the families of those people who DIED in Iraq think about that?

Obama didn't "announce" that he wants to go into Pakistan. John McCain doesn't know what he's talking about. Barack Obama was ASKED in a debate, that if Pakistan wasn't able to control terrorists themselves, if he was WILLING to go into Pakistan to get them ourselves. Not "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Paki-stan".

[meteamo]

McCain summary:

Surge

Lieberman

My Friends

Ronald Reagan

Surge

My Friends

Surge

My Friends

My Friends

My Friends

My Friends

I think you missed a few more Liebermans. Is Lieberman really across the aisle from McCain? I thought Lieberman was at the RNC and is actually an independant.

Why was McCain trying to link Obama with Bush?

I'll say it before: SO WHAT? Like everyone else just said, you can't joke about foreign policy things like that. When there's smoke there's fire, and John McCain wants to go into Iran, joke or not. What do you think the families of those people who DIED in Iraq think about that?

Obama didn't "announce" that he wants to go into Pakistan. John McCain doesn't know what he's talking about. Barack Obama was ASKED in a debate, that if Pakistan wasn't able to control terrorists themselves, if he was WILLING to go into Pakistan to get them ourselves. Not "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Paki-stan".

Communication is always important and an open dialogue is certainly always more important than having none at all.

[piratesmvp04]

I think the "Speak Softly, Carry a Big Stick" statement that McCain made about Obama goes beyond ridiculous. Conservative or Liberal, we all know John McCain wanted to go into Iraq. All of the things he said, "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran", "Next stop Baghdad", and calling for the annihilation of North Korea, completely goes against him. That's a blunder if I've ever seen one.

And we all know that MOST of Congress wanted to go to Iraq as well. In 2002, the House approved to go to Iraq by a vote of 296-133. But the Senate approved the bill by a whopping 77-23. So, 77% of Congress voted for the war. And don't tell me that it's because of a Republican majority. In fact, the Democrats had a slight majority in the Senate at the time of the vote (50 seats-(Dem.) 49 seats-(Rep.) 1 seat (Independant)). So, that means that a great deal of Democrats had to vote for this bill in order for it to pass. A lone 100% Republican support would not have been enough.

My point in saying this is that I believe we shouldn't beat up on people for supporting the Iraq war initially. If that were the case, I guess Hillary Clinton should be out of the political picture because she strongly supported the war from the start. The basis of war was the result of bad evidence, and any discussion of how we shouldn't have gone is aftertalk. All government members did what they should have done with the available evidence.

Sources: http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/o...rs/partydiv.htm

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS9y5t0tR0

[DJEagles]

No offense, as I am Canadian, but I just can't imagine ANYONE wanting another 4 years of Republican rule....especially after how lousy the last 8 were...unless your name happens to be Elizabeth Hasselback.

[piratesmvp04]

No offense, as I am Canadian, but I just can't imagine ANYONE wanting another 4 years of Republican rule....especially after how lousy the last 8 were...unless your name happens to be Elizabeth Hasselback.

I have many relatives who are Canadian, so I know what you're thinking. But, I must say that you are wrong that the last 8 years were lousy. Here's the facts:

1. We have not had a terrorist attack in the US since 9/11; meanwhile, other countries like Spain, UK, etc, suffer from attacks. Our intelligence, however, has foiled a number of terrorist attempts over the past 8 years.

2. Our presence in Afghanistan and Iraq forced Alquaeda to split its forces between the two countries, and we captured a number of top terrorist leaders in Iraq, thereby severely crippling the terrorist movement within the country. Because of this success in Iraq, Alquaeda has been forced to change strategy and abandon Iraq to pursue its interests in Afghanistan. That is why we are seeing increased violence in Afghanistan. It's not because Alquaeda all of sudden got more troops. It's because they've had to regroup and change strategy. This is not Rush-talk, it's my own opinion.

3. We had 3 of the best economic years in our nation's history from 2004-2006.

4. Our relations with Russia have improved as President Bush has sought friendly terms with President Putin. We have also strengthened our ties with Great Britain. This is crucial to maintaining stability around the world. Imagine if the US did not have the relationship with Russia, and we just came out the blue to tell them to get out of Georgia. We would have been much less respected and probably hated.

You can argue these points if you want, but I strongly believe that while he has been far from perfect, Bush has done great things for this country.

[JoeBlo]

A gaffe by a pol is considered to be one of those rare times pols tell the truth.

Obama's gaffe in the last debate.

"That's what we've been doing over the last eight years and that has actually made us more safe." -Barack Obama

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...ial_debate.html

As far as Afghanistan goes if we had listened to democrats and went in there the way the SOviets did we may have suffered the same kind of loses. It's easier to kill jihadist in open sand than mountainous terrain of AFghanistan. Just ask the Soviets. When you compare the ten year Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and the US more than tens years added together in Iraq and Afghanistan it's a no brainer as to why it was the right decision to make Iraq the central front in the WoT. Go look at Soviet loses including helicopters, etc... let alone men. Just one more reason why Iraq was a no brainer when you add up all the reasons it was prudent to take out Saddam in a post 9-11 world. Democrats like to look at the reasons one at a time and discredit them without ever looking at the totality of the bigger picture.

No wonder why Hollywood pushes the live in the moment theme, the lefty doesn't want you learning from the past or looking toward the future just live in the moment where they can demagogue more effectively.

No more one party control in DC and no more Harvard or Yale elites in the WH would be real change right there.

McCain08!