Official Political (Republican/Democrat) Debate Thread

[el_jefe061]

Then don't double post about it, if you even bother to read this.

About McCain being negative, he just said today that Obama is a decent guy, and the crowd booed him for it. AT HIS OWN RALLY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Now, I am not very crazy about McCain. But I'm even more uncrazy about Obama. Obama's policies and his past associations concern me. Maybe he can surprise all of us, but I don't think I want to take a chance.

Calling him a "decent" guy, and allowing people to throw out death threats and treason claims are a whole different ballpark. John McCain can talk about trying to run a positive campaign, but as long as he defends these bigots (that was an official press release) and keeps spewing this William Ayers crap, he's just as bad as those hillbillies showing up to his rallies.

Scary times. People are willing to fully embrace socialism if it means they might not have to be afraid at night for a few weeks about their savings.

Not only did the current administration expand the powers of government into the private sector but the incoming president plans to expand the national debt by $3.4 trillion over the next 10 years. Yikes!

Fear rules all. Don't believe me? Look at the polling number pre-economic crisis and post-economic crisis. The candidate that has pulled ahead has not offered any real solutions to the problems, just promises of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. That kind of thinking only works, the redistribution of wealth, if you plan on nationalising other major industries.

Once we do that, America as the founding father's viewed it, where the American people decide what happens with our money and not the Federal gov't. will die.

Hasn't it always been the GOP's favorite talking point to target taxes? Taxes are essentially the basis of the Obama Campaign's economic plan. His tax cuts for the middle class are three times what McCains are. I would love to hear what McCain's plan is, if he has "real" solutions.

My problem with the "redistribution of wealth" argument is that people who are against Obama's reversal of the Bush tax cuts (I say this because they are not being "raised" so much as they are brought back to normal levels) act like suddenly the rich will no longer be wealthy. The rich will still be rich; people will still be able to get rich. We're not going towards socialism, we're just going back to the Clinton levels of taxation.

People talk of liberals and the economy as if once Barack Obama gets into office we're automatically on par with Sweden. Conservatives treat FDR like he's one step away from being Stalin, yet all he did was pull us out of the Great Depression.

Universal healthcare, more regulations, and higher taxes for the rich will not turn us into a Nordic country. What these things will do is provide us with a safety net, while not giving us a ceiling for wealth and income like true socialism does.

[piratesmvp04]

Then don't double post about it, if you even bother to read this.

Calling him a "decent" guy, and allowing people to throw out death threats and treason claims are a whole different ballpark. John McCain can talk about trying to run a positive campaign, but as long as he defends these bigots (that was an official press release) and keeps spewing this William Ayers crap, he's just as bad as those hillbillies showing up to his rallies.

Hasn't it always been the GOP's favorite talking point to target taxes? Taxes are essentially the basis of the Obama Campaign's economic plan. His tax cuts for the middle class are three times what McCains are. I would love to hear what McCain's plan is, if he has "real" solutions.

My problem with the "redistribution of wealth" argument is that people who are against Obama's reversal of the Bush tax cuts (I say this because they are not being "raised" so much as they are brought back to normal levels) act like suddenly the rich will no longer be wealthy. The rich will still be rich; people will still be able to get rich. We're not going towards socialism, we're just going back to the Clinton levels of taxation.

People talk of liberals and the economy as if once Barack Obama gets into office we're automatically on par with Sweden. Conservatives treat FDR like he's one step away from being Stalin, yet all he did was pull us out of the Great Depression.

Universal healthcare, more regulations, and higher taxes for the rich will not turn us into a Nordic country. What these things will do is provide us with a safety net, while not giving us a ceiling for wealth and income like true socialism does.

I have to admit that I confused you with jonthefon (that conservative dude who posts multiple long posts in a row). el_jefe and jonthefon are kind of similar, and I just mistook you for him when I saw you writing long posts like he always does. Sorry about that.

Anyways, I cannot deny that I have been a little surprised at John McCain the past few weeks, and Sarah Palin is not really helping that case. Still though, I still think McCain is better than Obama. One of the main reasons is his stance on the Pro-Life issue, which I refuse to debate in because we tried it before and it went nowhere. I was hoping McCain would choose Huckabee as his running mate, but it is what it is. On Nov. 4, I will reluctantly cast my vote for McCain.

As for your next point, I disagree with Obama removing Bush's taxcuts because many people in my state, Pennsylvania, will be hurt by it (especially by the removal of the Marriage Tax). Maybe it's different in your state; I don't know. And, any conservative talk show host who doesn't like F. Roosevelt is at odds with me. I think FDR was one of the greatest presidents in US history mostly because of how he handled WWII. He wanted to go to war while Congress couldn't agree on the issue. He also tried to fix the economy by starting federal support for banks and by starting numerous construction jobs which created jobs for many. So, anyone who says FDR was a horrible president is wrong.

[meteamo]

So, to go off topic a bit .... which non-McCain/Obama candidate will receive the most number of votes? Barr? Nadar? Someone else?

What's the deal with McCain saying he's going to help out people with their mortgages by buying them at full price and discount them for the people? Isn't this against what his philosophy is? or maybe not? And how would this help the situation with the failed and bundled mortgage problem? Not only that, but how would McCain raise all that money needed to not only fund a war but buy back all these mortgages, especially if he won't raise taxes or repeal some of the tax cuts?

BTW ... Tina Fey's impressions on SNL of Palin are great. The one who played Hillary was good too.

Oh, yeah ... FDR was a horrible president. :lmao: j/k ... don't know the guy personally so I couldn't really tell ... but he was great in Annie.

[piratesmvp04]

So, to go off topic a bit .... which non-McCain/Obama candidate will receive the most number of votes? Barr? Nadar? Someone else?

What's the deal with McCain saying he's going to help out people with their mortgages by buying them at full price and discount them for the people? Isn't this against what his philosophy is? or maybe not? And how would this help the situation with the failed and bundled mortgage problem? Not only that, but how would McCain raise all that money needed to not only fund a war but buy back all these mortgages, especially if he won't raise taxes or repeal some of the tax cuts?

BTW ... Tina Fey's impressions on SNL of Palin are great. The one who played Hillary was good too.

Oh, yeah ... FDR was a horrible president. :lmao: j/k ... don't know the guy personally so I couldn't really tell ... but he was great in Annie.

Who knows? McCain has really been greatly disappointing me the past 2 weeks. I already was not completely happy with him because of his Maverickness, and now he's really blowing it. I've finally come to the realization that everything both candidates say and do is solely for political agenda, and I'm not as extreme as I used to be.

EDIT: Oh, to answer your question, Ron Paul will get the most 3rd party votes. He's the biggest guy out there, and even liberals like him.

[AddisonClark]

Why are some people voting for a Republican for no better reason than to show their displeasure towards abortion? The fact that in this day and age there are people out there who think they know what's best for other women astonishes me.

[krawhitham]

Why are some people voting for a Republican for no better reason than to show their displeasure towards abortion? The fact that in this day and age there are people out there who think they know what's best for other women astonishes me.

It is a God complex

[AddisonClark]

It is a God complex

Thank you, that's exactly what I was thinking as well.

Someone out there thinks they know what's best for my wife? They have control over her body? Who do they think they are, a God?

[tywiggins]

I have to admit that I confused you with jonthefon (that conservative dude who posts multiple long posts in a row). el_jefe and jonthefon are kind of similar, and I just mistook you for him when I saw you writing long posts like he always does. Sorry about that.

I think it was actually JoeBlo that you were thinking of. jonthefon hasn't made any posts in this thread.

[meteamo]

Oh, to answer your question, Ron Paul will get the most 3rd party votes. He's the biggest guy out there, and even liberals like him.

Thanks for the response but I don't think he's running. He views himself as a Republican and didn't get the nod. I have a feeling if he was the Rep. Candidate, he would draw a lot of votes but then again, who knows if the conservative base would want him. Perhaps ... Paul / Huckaby 2012? LOL

And the government shouldn't be telling a woman want she can and cannot do to her body. What's next!??

Not allowed to get tatoos or piercings anymore? Eeeek ... I can't take it anymore !!!

This post in no way endorses nor condones the use of tatoos or piercings.

[piratesmvp04]

I think it was actually JoeBlo that you were thinking of. jonthefon hasn't made any posts in this thread.

Oh okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

Thanks for the response but I don't think he's running. He views himself as a Republican and didn't get the nod. I have a feeling if he was the Rep. Candidate, he would draw a lot of votes but then again, who knows if the conservative base would want him. Perhaps ... Paul / Huckaby 2012? LOL

And the government shouldn't be telling a woman want she can and cannot do to her body. What's next!??

Not allowed to get tatoos or piercings anymore? Eeeek ... I can't take it anymore !!!

This post in no way endorses nor condones the use of tatoos or piercings.

Oh, okay. I just assumed he was still running.

A Paul/Huckabee ticket may be better than a McCain one in my opinion, but that ticket is only running in 2012 if Obama wins this year. But here's an interesting thought. If McCain wins the election this year and dies while in office, Palin of course becomes the president. So, in 2012, would the Republican party nominate Palin, or would they get somebody else? It's an interesting thought.

[Kayxero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

How does anyone defend this. This goes to show you that MANY people who do not support Obama have no basis for their dislike of him. They dont even know his policies. I think it is just misguided hate and some racism that they dare not make public. Lets be real here. People at a rally were telling the african american sound guy to "sit down, boy". I would have flipped on those people lol. But o wells when Obama is trying to fight for these middle class idiots they would rather believe rumors and tricks of the GOP.

[AddisonClark]

Is it really ok to endanger the country by electing to office an unstable, war-mongering man based primarily on the fact that he'll try and outlaw abortions for you? Is that sensible?

[krawhitham]

Oh, to answer your question, Ron Paul will get the most 3rd party votes. He's the biggest guy out there, and even liberals like him.

What are you smoking and are you willing to share?

Paul is only on 2 state ballots and has asked to be removed

Ron Paul is on the ballot in Louisiana with Barry Goldwater, Jr. on the Louisiana Taxpayers Party lineand in Montana with Michael Peroutka on the Montana Constitution Party line, even though the latter is associated with the national Constitution Party. Paul is no longer running for president and has asked to be removed from the ballot.

Nader is on the ballot in 46 states

Barr is on the ballot in 45 states

Baldwin is on the ballot in 37 states

McKinney is on the ballot in 32 states

[meteamo]

Cool. There's a taxpayer's party? I didn't know that. And is John Goldwater, Jr related to Barry Goldwater? I guess even if Ron was on the ballot in two states, it would be hard to get a lot of votes. LOL

Speaking of which, I want to start a new party. Would anyone help me? I am thinking about starting the college party or the Internet party but I can't decide which. I think we have a lot more intelligent people on this site than in the government.

A Paul/Huckabee ticket may be better than a McCain one in my opinion, but that ticket is only running in 2012 if Obama wins this year. But here's an interesting thought. If McCain wins the election this year and dies while in office, Palin of course becomes the president. So, in 2012, would the Republican party nominate Palin, or would they get somebody else? It's an interesting thought.

Here's another interesting though. If McCain passes away and Palin becomes President, who would she select as VP if able to do so? And then if Palin dies while in office and after if able selecting said VP, would the said unelected VP become President? Same would go for Obama / Biden. Or, would Palin/Biden have to select the next highest elected official Pelosi therefore making her President if Palin/Biden passes away while President? I'm driving myself crazy thinking of the possiblities. LOL

*note*

The And is John Goldwater, Jr related to Barry Goldwater? question originally read as And is John Goldwater, Jr related to Barry Goldwater? because of the Barry filter. :lol:

[tywiggins]

Cool. There's a taxpayer's party? I didn't know that. And is John Goldwater, Jr related to Barry Goldwater? I guess even if Ron was on the ballot in two states, it would be hard to get a lot of votes. LOL

Speaking of which, I want to start a new party. Would anyone help me? I am thinking about starting the college party or the Internet party but I can't decide which. I think we have a lot more intelligent people on this site than in the government.

Here's another interesting though. If McCain passes away and Palin becomes President, who would she select as VP if able to do so? And then if Palin dies while in office and after if able selecting said VP, would the said unelected VP become President? Same would go for Obama / Biden. Or, would Palin/Biden have to select the next highest elected official Pelosi therefore making her President if Palin/Biden passes away while President? I'm driving myself crazy thinking of the possiblities. LOL

*note*

The And is John Goldwater, Jr related to Barry Goldwater? question originally read as And is John Goldwater, Jr related to John Goldwater? because of the Barry filter.

Gerald Ford was appointed Vice President after Spiro Agnew resigned as Vice President. When Nixon resigned as President, Ford became President.

It makes it more interesting that both houses of Congress have to approve the new Vice President. So if McCain is elected and their is a Democratic majority in one or both houses of Congress, and McCain dies while in office, the Democrats could easily block any nominee for Vice President. If Palin then died without a Vice President, the Speaker of the House would become President. (currently Nancy Pelosi)

Section 2 of the 25th Amendment provides that "Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."

By the way, the name is actually Barry Goldwater Jr. And he is the Barry Goldwater's son. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater,_Jr.

[meteamo]

Okay. Thanks Ty. Have a good day.

[piratesmvp04]

Here's another interesting though. If McCain passes away and Palin becomes President, who would she select as VP if able to do so? And then if Palin dies while in office and after if able selecting said VP, would the said unelected VP become President? Same would go for Obama / Biden. Or, would Palin/Biden have to select the next highest elected official Pelosi therefore making her President if Palin/Biden passes away while President? I'm driving myself crazy thinking of the possiblities. LOL

No, I meant that since Palin has relatively little experience and thus very little chance of winning a presidency, would the Republicans dump the incumbent in favor of a better man?

[meteamo]

For the next election ... the answer would be yes. Someone else woud come into the picture by then. And we probably haven't heard of them yet.

Edit:

I'm watching a repeat of Palin's recent Pep Rally in PA and it's funny because all I could think about is Tina Fey.

[piratesmvp04]

I'm watching a repeat of Palin's recent Pep Rally in PA and it's funny because all I could think about is Tina Fey.

Oh, shut up. :D

[meteamo]

Oh, shut up.

Okay. :D

[HardcoreLegend]

Why are some people voting for a Republican for no better reason than to show their displeasure towards abortion? The fact that in this day and age there are people out there who think they know what's best for other women astonishes me.

And there aren't people on the other side voting for the opposite reason?

[krawhitham]

And there aren't people on the other side voting for the opposite reason?

You mean voting because you believe it is up to each woman what she does with her own body, and not some politician who has never and will never met the woman making the choice for her?

[HardcoreLegend]

You mean voting because you believe it is up to each woman what she does with her own body, and not some politician who has never and will never met the woman making the choice for her?

Exactly. Not because they will be a better executive, leader of the government, head of state and commander and chief but because they won't appoint a SCJ that will strip down Roe v Wade (which is never going to happen anyways).

[AddisonClark]

And there aren't people on the other side voting for the opposite reason?

I've never heard anyone say "I'm voting for [liberal] because I need to keep having my abortions" -- have you?

It's always the same people who aren't doing things that need to make sure no one else does them, too. Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get gay married. Don't like abortions? Then don't have an abortion.

It's just that simple.

[HardcoreLegend]

I've never heard anyone say "I'm voting for [liberal] because I need to keep having my abortions" -- have you?

People said that women shouldn't vote for Palin right off the bat because despite being a woman, she was anti-abortion.

It's always the same people who aren't doing things that need to make sure no one else does them, too. Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get gay married. Don't like abortions? Then don't have an abortion.

It's just that simple.

Is it really that simple? Liberals never tell people how to think or what to do?