Official Political (Republican/Democrat) Debate Thread

[thelatinking]

How would he finish the job?

:chin:

OBAMA PRESINDENT.....FOR UNITED STATES MAJOR AND THE WORLD

PEACE AND WAR LESS

[Padres67]

I am not looking forward to an Obama presidency for many reasons. That being said I am going to be unlike many of you Bush haters who have this warped idea that if your guy doesn't win then you will enact venom and hateful words against the man. Shame on all of you who did that. Since Obama will be our next president I will support him as the freely elected president. This country is still greatly divided on largely cultural issues. The half who didn't get McCain will be very upset and try and do everything they can to get their guy in next time. You will not hear any hate speech or, quite frankly, unpatriotic discussions on this board from me. We are all americans and must accept the president whoever he or she is. I find it quite funny that some of the liberal hollywood people threatened to move out of the U.S. if Bush were elected. As of this post they are still here and doing quite well,safe from terrorist attacks. Again I will accept the man as my president because we still get to elect our leaders. I will not be like those who said " he is not my president" when referring to Bush. Unless you live in another country he is , and will be until Jan 20, 2009. Obama will need all our prayers because there is a lot of issues that are going to be very dangerous in the near future. The middle east is on the verge of another war. Good luck Obama, you are going to need it

[tywiggins]

France lost more men in Verdun, than we lost over the course of every war we fought in our history. Thats an example the French use, when they call us arrogant.

Maybe you're remembering wrong. It could be that you're mixing two of their examples.

1. They lost more soldiers in Verdun than we did in WW1. This is true.

2. They lost more soldiers in WW1 than we've lost in our history. This is also true.

French military deaths in Verdun (WW1)-- 163,000

French military deaths in WW1 -- 1,397,800

Note: Battle of Verdun was a 10 months long battle.

About 1,200,000 total military deaths in war in US history. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html

[MarkB]

Although I am an Obama supporter, I can't see him being a popular president by the time it comes the the next election. Why? Because it seems that whether we like it or not, a lot of nations are heading toward recession or, at the very least, financial turmoil to a very high degree, regardless of how many interest rate cuts, spending freezes or micro-management ideas there are. My fear is that Obama will be remembered after one term as a president who would have done well in almost any other circumstance, but that he'll be voted out after one term in favour of a lesser candidate (apparently Failin is going to be running in the next election) who will do a much poorer job and will either plunge the country further into turmoil, or will ride on Obama's laurels and take credit for the turnaround of the economy. And, for the record, I don't think McCain would do any better at all - much worse, in fact.

It's a shame America's first black president had to take control at such a bad time, as I feel that this, unfortunately, will lead to attitudes being merged for future candidates.

With that said, if he turns it around and recovers the economy, he'll have done an epically fantastic job. I'm just not hopeful.

Now, everybody, get the **** out of your homes and vote tomorrow, if you've not done it already!

[duckdodger215]

It's a shame America's first black president had to take control at such a bad time,

huh? was Lincoln black or something? didn't know we've had one

[MarkB]

As with all of the rest of the above post, duckdodger, it's used in past tense as I'm pretty sure, and the polls agree, that Obama is very close to winning this election. Of course, we'll need to wait for the numbers to start rolling in for it to be official, but whether you like or not, the numbers don't lie - Obama has a pretty steady lead.

A USA Today/Gallup poll has Obama ahead by 11 points, with other polls showing leads of between 5 to 11 points.

[wrigleyville33]

So the lecture in my honors social studies class today was all about the election. How it is broken down, voting, electoral votes, etc. To me, our votes really don't count. We elect representatives to vote for the president that we want them to vote for. So usually, if you vote all republican, then the representative will vote McCain in this case. Yet there have been cases where reps don't vote for the popular vote, such as one case of a rep in oregon a couple years ago. So really my mind has set that the real election is when the reps vote. One case of this is, back in 2000, Gore received more votes by the American public, yet the electoral voting went to Bush. So really our votes mean nothing imo.

[DeuceBlades]

Maybe you're remembering wrong. It could be that you're mixing two of their examples.

1. They lost more soldiers in Verdun than we did in WW1. This is true.

2. They lost more soldiers in WW1 than we've lost in our history. This is also true.

French military deaths in Verdun (WW1)-- 163,000

French military deaths in WW1 -- 1,397,800

Note: Battle of Verdun was a 10 months long battle.

About 1,200,000 total military deaths in war in US history. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html

Thanks Ty, I forgot to add and WW1 along side Verdun. I was in a hurry, but good catch. I dont want to pass along false info.

and Wrigley has a point on the voting issue. This country is predominantly republican anyway. No matter what, we always elect a republican because of the fact we are so right wing as a country. Alot of dictators were right wing, hence the fact they loved to start wars, just like republicans. If is sounds like Im hating, I am. I used to be republican, now Im independant.

[catzrthecoolest]

Obama's grandmother just now died... who knows what effect this will have...

[kgbaseball]

In my mind, it will garner many sympathy votes for voters who can't decide.

[MarkB]

Obama's grandmother just now died... who knows what effect this will have...

Wow, that's a shame - the day before the election, too. R.I.P.

[JJ1012]

There is only one TRUE logical people for the presidency of the US. Not obama, not mccain. Ralph Nader. Chances are if either mccain or obama is elected they would die within the first week of their presidency. Mccain will have a heartattack, and obama will most likely be assassinated. I know it sounds racist, and i'm not trying to be racist, but it is true. How would you like to have a psycho like Palin or Biden as president?

[SeanRobinson]

Trouble is that Biden's not a psycho. As in, you know, he's read the Constitution and actually understands how government works. Unlike certain other candidates.

[Kayxero]

There is only one TRUE logical people for the presidency of the US. Not obama, not mccain. Ralph Nader. Chances are if either mccain or obama is elected they would die within the first week of their presidency. Mccain will have a heartattack, and obama will most likely be assassinated. I know it sounds racist, and i'm not trying to be racist, but it is true. How would you like to have a psycho like Palin or Biden as president?

Funny to hear that from someone who jumps on the forum the day before the election just to say such a thing.

Obama will go thru his presidency alive and kicking. I mean bush has to be one of the most hated presidents in history and the secret service has done its job. Even though they did let an Armenian throw a hand grenade in his direction during a speech. Funny thing is, that when i told alot of my classmates about that today, noone had any idea that it every happened.

Every president seems to have some sort of attempts at their lives in recent history. And people should look into Columbia and its drug problems and how amazingly the president there has been around so long and not taken out given all the reforms hes been behind.

I cant wait to vote tomorrow.

[Mykal94]

Kayxero, there is one thing you have forgotten Obama is black. I have NO problem with that, but there are many crazy racists who hate Obama more because he is black, than Bush because he destroyed the country. Also as you said, they did try to kill Bush. So I'm not saying that he will be assassinated, but there will be many attempts (more than there were for Bush)

[Kayxero]

You are forgetting one thing. Im pretty sure islamic militants want to kill Bush more than Obama and are way more structured then some back woods american racists. Even with that Bush is in one piece. I highly doubt anything happens to Obama. He will have the greatest protection any president has ever seen if elected.

[DeuceBlades]

Kayxero, there is one thing you have forgotten Obama is black. I have NO problem with that, but there are many crazy racists who hate Obama more because he is black, than Bush because he destroyed the country. Also as you said, they did try to kill Bush. So I'm not saying that he will be assassinated, but there will be many attempts (more than there were for Bush)

Hes not black, hes of mixed race. C'mon, educate yourself. He claims both sides of his heritage proudly. Why do you think he has spent so much time trying to present his grandmother to the rest of the country? He talks about how his monther fought her battle to the end. Obama wont get assassinated if elected. Thats just fearmongering at its best. Obama has never made an agenda saying hes against this race or that race. Hes for unity, and the american people see that. Kennedy was assassinated because he dug to deep into mafia affairs, plain and simple. Nobody knows that as fact, but its pretty close to the truth. Obama doesnt have anyone to go after. All he has to do is just clean up the economy by balancing the budget and create jobs. He has his work ahead of him, but the democrats have never had problems with the economy, or on fixing the economy in general. Im voting Obama tomorrow, not because hes black....because Im white. Im voting because I have see both sides fairly. I have watched all the debates and there is nothing McCain can do to change my mind. I want somebody who looks at me as an equal, like Obama. McCain looks at you like your just another vote. Im not his friend and imnot his fellow prisoner. Im not "Joe the plumber." Why are we still on Joe the plumber, when Joe wasnt even a plumber? Its beating a dead horse.

I think calling someone a fellow prisoner doesnt do justice to the POW's who died in captivity. Im sorry, but thats just not something that needs to be said by a former POW. Its despicable IMHO.

secondary point* to wrigleyville

I know what you mean about having the popular vote meaning nothing. Problem with that is, California has the most citizens. Giving the limitation on how many votes should come from California helps smaller states such as er the Iraq......oh wait, sorry...lol No seriously though, smaller staes like NH and Vermont who have 3 or so electorates will have a say in how the election turns out. If Californians voted and we only had the popular vote, California could almost elect the president by itself without the say of the smaller states. Its a fair system thats in place. So your vote does count. Help your candidate garner the electorates from your state.

[Pirate]

Voted this morning at 6 a.m. and the line was already 20 people long. When I left it had grown to at least 100. Only four polling machines.

Anyone else vote yet?

[DeuceBlades]

Im going in a couple hours. I dont have to worry about that, because my town is small. We have 4 machines to, I think, but people move pretty quickly.

[Pirate]

I live in a town of 69,000 with 16 other polling places in town. It's going to be busy everywhere. Early voting yesterday resulted in 4-5 hour waits.

[krawhitham]

Voted this morning at 6 a.m. and the line was already 20 people long. When I left it had grown to at least 100. Only four polling machines.

Anyone else vote yet?

Last Friday (20 minute wait)

[Kayxero]

Town of 30,000. Went this morning a block away from school at around 930. Took about 2 minutes. No lines at all =P

[vbprogjoe]

Relax, duckdodger.

Sean O gets worked up over his opinions the same way you do, I do, and many other people around here do.

If somebody says something you feel is not relevant to the discussion/argument at hand, you can mention it - but there's no need to get so 'angry.' The reason I say that is - if you really do think Sean or anyone else isn't being "respectful" than simply say that - don't "sink to

their level" and also become argumentative and disruptful.

I am fully aware that you are at-odds with Sean's political views. So am I - being that I am a Republican and McCain supporter.

And if you think Sean is being unfair to you - there is a better way to work around it - PM him, or even me or another staff member if you think you need some other perspective in here. No need to get involved in "shouting matches" - it doesn't help anything.

It seems you are under the impression that Sean O is throwing his "staff-weight" around in here. I don't think he is - but if he ever goes back and notices himself doing that - I am sure he would apologize for it. But, just because he is staff - if he disagrees with you - that doesn't mean it's a "Staff versus User" thing. It's just a "User versus User" thing, where one user HAPPENS to be a staff member.

However - there is no need for you to say other people aren't entitled to their opinions, even if you don't feel they express them in a way you would consider 'intelligent.' So, you yourself should also refrain from telling people to "leave the thread," as it were.

All that mish-mash being said - you ARE correct, in my opinion about one thing in particular:

The people in here better figure out a way to disagree without acting like kindegarteners fighting over crayons - or these political threads aren't going to last much longer.

I think all that duckdodger is saying is Sean O is mean when he disagrees with other posters. In fact, I'd say he thinks he is the "imperial emperor" of all opinions. If you disagree with him (no matter how good your argument), he treats you like a dumb animal or the ilk. In fact, I actually have set my account to ignore his posts (so I THANKFULLY) don't have to read his diatribes of hatred. He is the ONLY poster I've ever set to ignore, because he just gave me migraines when he went off in mean tangents. The rest of the posters, even the liberals or Democrats I disagree with, I've maintained to NOT set to ignore, because they are not as mean and bitter. Sometimes I find their sarcasm taxing, but they are, for the most part, decently cordial and polite!!!

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.) :)

[vbprogjoe]

Well Congratulations to ALL the Obama-backers (many of which are Bush bashers), your man WON! Unlike the Hollywood elites, I don't hear any conservatives threatening to leave the country. Even the ones who can afford to, like the minority of Hollywood conservatives (many who are afraid of being blacklisted from jobs), aren't even thinking about it. That is because they are pragmatic and calm people, unlike the radicals on the left. As for me, I'm a conservative who is really disappointed and concerned about our direction now. However, unlike the Bush bashers/haters, Obama will be "my president" come January 20, 2009. Do I think that he will make us less safe internationally, and essentially lay down to the likes of Ahmadinejad and Chavez (Castros)? Yes. Do I think his elitist policies are going to eventually affect my life negatively? Yes. Do I think that those first two will lead to a possible detrimental terrorist attack that will affect our flailing economy? I hope NOT, but I fear that something will go awry. Then we'll be slammed like a basketball by the hands of Lebron James. Last of all, and most importantly, do I think that Obama's socialist, Marxist, and frankly naive redistribution plan will make the economy worse all by itself (maybe lead to the reviled next Depression)? Well, sort of. I don't think we'll reach a depression where we will all be homeless or moving to Canada, France, or the U.K. However, I do think it will lead to companies and/or corporations (along with many small businesses) laying off even more workers, or, as much as I hate to say it, outsourcing many more jobs than already done. This will lead to a major recession, the likes of which, will never have been seen before.

I truly hope I'm wrong, and that I'm just frightened needlessly. I will not lie though, I believe all Obama is going to do is make more people less willing to work hard (earn $200,000+), and thus make more people poor and even more poverty stricken. I say that because layoffs and outsourcing means LESS jobs, which means and leads to less money earned, which leads to mass chaos.

Heck, I'm getting depressed just writing this post, so I'm going to end it before I begin to cry at the sight of puppies and turn into a Cubs fan. God, that makes me even more depressed just saying that team's name. See, I must stop my writing before I electrocute myself with my tears.

Thanks,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.) 8O :roll: :wall: :?: :wynar: :protest:

[Kccitystar]

I am incredibly optimistic about the future of science and technology under Obama. I am optimistic about healthcare and education. I am cautiously optimistic about the war (we need to pressure him to get out - gracefully - as quickly as possible) and the economy (this will take years to fix, and no one really knows what will happen). I hope he is sensible on gay rights, supporting decriminalization of certain drugs, and swinging the pendulum of copyright issues back with the people over corporations (but Biden's RIAA and MPAA friendliness is NOT a good sign)... But we should all pressure him on these issues.

I'm hopeful. Ultimately, I feel that he was the only choice to start setting this country back in the right direction. Who knows how far he will get. Probably not very. But there is hope. McCain would have held a very bleak future IMHO.