Official Political (Republican/Democrat) Debate Thread

[riker147]

If you don't like Canadians for whatever reason then keep it to yourself..

The same should be said if you don't like New Englanders.

[Gordo]

So, you concede that some government regulation is necessary.

...and only what is necessary. It's government control that most people abhor.

Are you serious about the Socialist Netflix Company? To me, it makes you sound 150% crazy.

...c'mon man, don't take everything so literally. It was to emphasize a point. Besides, everyone knows that Blockbuster is the only true existing Communist movie rental company!

People came to America to find jobs -- In your mind, their original intent was to escape government overlording and control.

People came to America for free land -- In your mind, their original intent was to escape government overlording and control.

Why do people currently come here from Mexico? To escape government overlording and control? I don't think so.

...of course not in EVERY situation and not always in the literal sense, but I'm sure the implication is there. I certainly don't have poll numbers, but if people are coming here because of better employment opportunities, personal freedoms, and, let's face it in the case of illegal Mexicans, free social services and other benefits (when they really should be deported instead), it's implied they would often want to escape a controlled situation. Hey,some are coming here for the existing health care options alone. Ironicalistic, isn't it?

Less government control could just as easily lead to a decline of the United States. I fear corporations controlling our lives much more than the government.

...Corporations are privately controlled. If another business wants to create a business to take on a larger industry, in our system of capitalism and the true democratic process, they can do that. But if you are REQUIRED to purchase a certain type of health care, car, dwelling, etc. by the government, your *** is grass.

In the near term (say by 2020), what is the government actually going to take control of that you fear?

Is the government going to tell you what to eat, what to read, what to watch, what to say, what to buy, where to live, where to work, where to pray, who to love, who to hate, etc... ?

In some of these situations, they already have and they already are trying to gain more. As always what I say to liberals, if you are truly of an open-mind, then make sure you are considering ALL viewpoints, not just the antagonistic side.

[Yankee4Life]

The same should be said if you don't like New Englanders.

This is a political thread. Don't even try again to pull this stuff in here. These guys have enough to talk about in here and they don't need to be bothered about baseball stuff.

[vbprogjoe]

Let's get one thing cleared up. I don't care what your political views are and I never will. It's not my business. As far as I am concerned you can come in here and talk politics every day if you want to. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your time. But when you are here you are not going to go around saying what you did about Canadians. If you don't like Canadians for whatever reason then keep it to yourself.

Like anyone here really gives a &*(&.

First of all, Al Franken's long lost brother and "special" buddy, I was joking about the Canadian(s). If you can't "read in between the lines," you are NOT only a liberal, but a dumb-hick liberal <fill in another cool insult> Yankee4Life. Do I think that Canadians and Europeans (in general) like socialism, and can't get enough of it - and that is why they REALLY love "Obama The Shama," YES!!! That is about as serious as I get with my true opinion about them, in general!! However, the other stuff was said in jest, or for the "politically illiterate," as a small joking aside (for levity). If you can't either take a harmless joke or ribbing, or can't take the opinions about Europeans or Canadians in the harmless token they are offered, you need serious psychological help.

About no one caring or whatever, obviously, I know you do to an extent, because it "jabbed" you the wrong way. I'll keep it simple dude, if I don't care about what someone says or thinks, like "Sean O," for example - I DON'T respond (or in general, read) their stuff. That is why I won't even acknowledge his existence, but I really don't get hot and bothered. If you don't like a comment that badly, then I ignore it pal. Try to keep yourself in a calm state, it is just political opinion (or opinion, in general), no need to get all "Barney Frank" on someone.

To quickly review, the hyperbole I used in this reply is joking around, I really DON'T think President Barack Obama's name is "Obama The Shama" or that you really know or are a "special" someone of Al Franken's. If you are, however, that is your business, and you keep truckin' there dude. I DO think that Canadians are lovers of socialist theory and political ideology. However, the last time I checked, we still have freedom of speech in the United States (unless Obama took it over night, which I wouldn't doubt). If you can't take the opinion, then ignore it man. You act like I stole your tricycle...

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.) :lazy:

[vbprogjoe]

Is the government going to tell you what to eat, what to read, what to watch, what to say, what to buy, where to live, where to work, where to pray, who to love, who to hate, etc... ?

tell you what to eat? Yes, it is coming not only in the health care proposal, but a separate bill too (through taxes on soda and trans fat). Taxes are proxy laws to discourage you, and in essence "tell" you what to eat & drink.

what to read? In general, No. However, some schools have outlawed reading of materials written by conservatives (especially in the lil' O's home state of Illinois).

what to watch? NOT really, but if the Dems ever get their "Radio & Television" equality act(s), it could happen. However, hopefully the American people will rise up against that particular action by any politician (Democrat or Republican).

what to say? It seems like it is already happening, but again - hopefully we will rise up against it if it gets worse.

what to buy? Yes, again. Refer to my healthcare comment up above in the eating section. They are forcing you to buy healthcare within it through fines. Which by the way, is supposedly unconstitutional, but to use a liberal bullet point, "Why let something as little as the Constitution get in the way!" I'm not saying you shouldn't morally have insurance, but rather, you shouldn't have to purchase it as a matter of law!

where to live? Not REALLY, but one could make the point that the amendments made to "eminent domain" is the start of it happening. I hope I'm wrong!

where to work? So far, NOT. However, Obama scares me so far, and what is to STOP him from going for this one, just to keep Conservatives and their idealogies out of academics and politics.

where to pray? NO. Hey, we can 100% agree on one for once, without any caviats. Democrats have to allow freedom of prayer, as they have atheists to coddle and other religions to say are better than others because they consist of their base when voting comes around. Just to make it clear, I'm not putting down atheists, just stating Democrats like to coddle them. Believe in whatever you want to believe in, even if it is a disbelief of something or someone.

who to love & who to hate? So far this isn't happening, but when socialists are "at the wheel," you can NEVER guarantee ANYTHING. According to Yankee4Life, I can't even hate someone in jest, as a joking aside for levity. I can see outlawing REAL hate (because I don't hate anyone, other than terrorists), but jestful hate - that is just un-American. I reserve the right to fake hate Simon Cowell, because that man needs to be less cocky and arrogant. Thus, I'll pretend that I hate him.

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.)

[Yankee4Life]

First of all, Al Franken's long lost brother and "special" buddy, I was joking about the Canadian(s). If you can't "read in between the lines," you are NOT only a liberal, but a dumb-hick liberal <fill in another cool insult> Yankee4Life. Do I think that Canadians and Europeans (in general) like socialism, and can't get enough of it - and that is why they REALLY love "Obama The Shama," YES!!! That is about as serious as I get with my true opinion about them, in general!! However, the other stuff was said in jest, or for the "politically illiterate," as a small joking aside (for levity). If you can't either take a harmless joke or ribbing, or can't take the opinions about Europeans or Canadians in the harmless token they are offered, you need serious psychological help.

It is because of people like you that I don't like coming in these political threads. I don't know what you mean by calling me "Al Franken's long lost brother and "special" buddy."

I don't care what it means and you can save your explanations.

But I do know what a liberal is and what a dumb hick liberal is and I am far from that. But I am someone who does not agree with you and therefore I get called these names.

It seems to me by just taking a quick glance at your previous posts in the political threads that if someone does not agree with you, you call them some kind of name.

Again, do what you wish. What someone like you calls me over the Internet won't hurt me.

About no one caring or whatever, obviously, I know you do to an extent, because it "jabbed" you the wrong way. I'll keep it simple dude, if I don't care about what someone says or thinks, like "Sean O," for example - I DON'T respond (or in general, read) their stuff. That is why I won't even acknowledge his existence, but I really don't get hot and bothered. If you don't like a comment that badly, then I ignore it pal. Try to keep yourself in a calm state, it is just political opinion (or opinion, in general), no need to get all "Barney Frank" on someone.

You don't get it. Your political opinions and views don't jab me the wrong way at all. Think what you want. If you are 100% pro Republican, fine. Or 100% pro anything else. Your business.

But when you go out and insult Canadians then maybe you go too far. We've got a Canadian admin on this staff that may not like this if he read it. He's not here a lot now so he didn't read this. We have people that have been on this website since we have started up and also people who have joined over the years who are Canadians and they've contributed a lot to this MVP game of ours. Dylan Bradbury is Canadian and his ratings generator have helped many people enjoy this game even more. There's a guy named Cartersyard who made uniforms for the 04 and 05 game that many people used. He doesn't come around anymore but his work is still here. And these are only two examples of the Canadians who have made contributions around here and I am sure there are many others.

[emath2432]

It's like I said said earlier in this thread. I am paraphrasing.

According to a conservative, anyone who is liberal is a piece of sh*t, and it's apparently okay to call them one. However, if you so much as disagree with a conservative (let alone call them a piece of sh*t in return), it doesn't matter what your actual beliefs are, or where you stand politically, you are now a socialist piece of sh*t.

I used to be a hard line conservative... Until I realized it was the morons on that side of the aisle that were going to lead this country right into the sh*t can.

As I mentioned, also earlier in this thread, I am no liberal either. I support whomever I feel is most beneficial to me and my country at that moment. This time around it was clearly Obama.

It makes me laugh how many Conservatives can sit here, after supporting one of the worst "Presidents" this country has ever seen, and with a straight face, say the things they do about Obama.

Is he perfect? Nope.

Are there things he could be doing differently/better? Yup

But compared to little Georgie Bush, my penis would be a better President, so please spare me the crap you talk about Obama. Even if history tells us he goes down as the second worst President in our nations history (it wont), he will still be leaps and bounds ahead of the law ignoring "President" we had before him.

[emath2432]

As for unconstitutionality and all that largess you mentioned, while you may think the war in Iraq was unconstitutional, us conservatives feel not ONLY was it constitutional - but necessary.

Sorry, but don't put words into my mouth. I never mentioned the war. In fact, I was one of the few who had/have no real issue with the war in Iraq.

For an example, just off the top of my head (and I can't remember all of the details now), one of the things I was referring to as unconstitutional was the whole wire tapping issue. It was things like that (and there were quite a few I remember hearing about), that he did simply because he was "protecting" us, without following the proper channels in Washington, that make me call it the Pot calling the kettle black.

[emath2432]

But compared to little Georgie Bush, my penis would be a better President, so please spare me the crap you talk about Obama. Even if history tells us he goes down as the second worst President in our nations history (it wont), he will still be leaps and bounds ahead of the law ignoring "President" we had before him.

Now, after having a few minutes to think about what I said, I will apologize for this last comment. While I do feel this way, it was more opinion than fact (though many would argue that), and I could have said it differently. I wont edit it out though, because I am not going to try hide what I originally said.

[vbprogjoe]

Sorry, but don't put words into my mouth. I never mentioned the war. In fact, I was one of the few who had/have no real issue with the war in Iraq.

For an example, just off the top of my head (and I can't remember all of the details now), one of the things I was referring to as unconstitutional was the whole wire tapping issue. It was things like that (and there were quite a few I remember hearing about), that he did simply because he was "protecting" us, without following the proper channels in Washington, that make me call it the Pot calling the kettle black.

Wasn't talking about you in particular, though, just liberals in general! I should have made that more clear than I did, sorry if I offended you...

As to wire-tapping, I believe that what we did as a country under Bush was NOT only constitutional, but necessary. You disagree, that is perfectly fine - I understand that many citizens (mostly liberals/Dems) feel that way. You disagree with my thesis or idea on that, and I in turn, disagree with your ideology in the same manner on that topic. Two conscience, passionate human beings can disagree with each other, and NOT attack each other like rabid animals.

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.):give_rose:

[vbprogjoe]

It is because of people like you that I don't like coming in these political threads. I don't know what you mean by calling me "Al Franken's long lost brother and "special" buddy."

I don't care what it means and you can save your explanations.

I won't bother explaining, since I was being facetious (and like you said, it REALLY doesn't matter) - that we agree 200% on.

But I do know what a liberal is and what a dumb hick liberal is and I am far from that. But I am someone who does not agree with you and therefore I get called these names.

It seems to me by just taking a quick glance at your previous posts in the political threads that if someone does not agree with you, you call them some kind of name.

I didn't call you a hick liberal <fill in your favorite insult> because you disagree with me. That is what others on this board do to me, I think you have to admit. I don't care about that, neither do I care whether you agree or disagree with me, I could give a "drunk monkey" less what you think about me. I called you that because you misrepresented what I said, and you made it quite clear that you seriously took it for an actual insult. I didn't say anything in actual terse, mean, or defiant (ridicule) of Canadians, I said it in jest (as a joke for levity), like if you were to say "Americans are rude, violent, gun-loving, feeble-minded, capitalistic, and hick pigs or <pick a cruel insult>." Which, as an American, should offend me, but it DOESN'T! Partly because some of that might be true; and partly because I don't care what you, any of you Democrats/liberals, foreign members (non-Americans), or anybody that has attacked me or my ideals thinks. I just ignore them. Is that simple enough to you?

You don't get it. Your political opinions and views don't jab me the wrong way at all. Think what you want. If you are 100% pro Republican, fine. Or 100% pro anything else. Your business.

But when you go out and insult Canadians then maybe you go too far. We've got a Canadian admin on this staff that may not like this if he read it. He's not here a lot now so he didn't read this. We have people that have been on this website since we have started up and also people who have joined over the years who are Canadians and they've contributed a lot to this MVP game of ours. Dylan Bradbury is Canadian and his ratings generator have helped many people enjoy this game even more. There's a guy named Cartersyard who made uniforms for the 04 and 05 game that many people used. He doesn't come around anymore but his work is still here. And these are only two examples of the Canadians who have made contributions around here and I am sure there are many others.

Again, you don't GET IT. I wasn't talking about my political opinions jabbing you. I'm talking about my reply about the pictures or images, and people posting those that they agree with or support. I know you don't care about the fact I support conservatism (not the 100% Republican you suggest) , and I sure as heck could care less that you lean liberal. We've both said the same thing about that over and over, that is territory that is quite established. I was simply saying if you didn't care about my idea that I would never post an image that I didn't agree with, and that I find the idea that others would do so strange - then why did you respond that you didn't care ("Like anyone here really gives a &*(&." to be specific) to that portion of the post. That is what I said jabbed you the wrong way, not opinions on politics.

The rest of the stuff I already covered above, but again I didn't seriously insult Canadians, I said it in jest (as a joke to create some humor). Politics is dry without humor. I don't know how much clearer I could have been, I said I "was kidding" within the post. If you can't "read between the lines," then you really shouldn't position yourself in them. Yes, I believe that Canadians and Europeans (in general) LOVE socialism, and that is why they, in turn, love Obama so much... That I AM serious about! I do NOT seriously consider them to be barbarians, irrational and/or illogical, or to love the depraved or insane or to be either as people. I do probably think they are enchanted, beguiled, and charmed by "The Great Obama Shama," just like the U.S. mainstream media is. For the reasons mentioned above in both sections. However, I DO NOT assert what you accuse me of, in any possible, conceivable way. I was joking and made that quite clear. I was just using hyperbole like my U.S. insult above. People who are insulted didn't read my full statement, and even so, if they still are - just ignore my post and all. It really doesn't take a professor emeritus to figure this stuff out, it just takes a 8th grade education, which I'm sure everybody has on this forum...

Sincerely Hoping This Is The Last Time I Have To Address This,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.)

[Padres67]

Teddy boy would be turning in his grave about now. Scott Brown-you da man. Who would have thought. I guess you can only buy so many people.

[MarkB]

Martha Coakley, you win this month's Epic Fail award. Just because you're a Democrat doesn't mean you'll win the seat, as you've now learned.

I hate to say it, but she deserved to lose the election.

[vbprogjoe]

Teddy boy would be turning in his grave about now. Scott Brown-you da man. Who would have thought. I guess you can only buy so many people.

Yeah, I guess there is some hope. I thought everybody in Massachusetts was brainwashed, and then they delightfully surprise me. Maybe the conservative pride can "drive" us through to November 2010. At least one blue state has shown they can be capable of voting by conscience, and NOT state history or legacy. Gives me hope that Wisconsin could wake up, and at least go conservative for the 8th district this fall, if not the governorship... Jim Doyle makes me want to drink irresponsibly!!!

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.):good:

[MrGravyard]

Come november IF there is still an America left.. You can bet there will be Lots of changes in Congress..

Thanks God that nut Pelosi is going to go...

[Padres67]

We can only hope-but those nut jobs in california will probably follow her over a cliff. The State I grew up in is no longer a great place to live.

[vbprogjoe]

We can only hope-but those nut jobs in california will probably follow her over a cliff. The State I grew up in is no longer a great place to live.

I often wonder what would be a more distressing place to live: Vermont, California, or Illinois? Then if it was California, which city would you least NOT want to live in: San Francisco, Berkeley, or Sacramento? I'm terrified just spelling these names, let alone thinking of living or visiting any of these havens of liberalism (quasi-socialism). It's like "Sophie's Choice," except without a hot Brooke Shields...

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.):give_rose:

[Padres67]

I often wonder what would be a more distressing place to live: Vermont, California, or Illinois? Then if it was California, which city would you least NOT want to live in: San Francisco, Berkeley, or Sacramento? I'm terrified just spelling these names, let alone thinking of living or visiting any of these havens of liberalism (quasi-socialism). It's like "Sophie's Choice," except without a hot Brooke Shields...

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.)

If I had a choice SF-because there are parts that of it that are still sane. I grew up in San Diego which is still pretty conservative.

[vbprogjoe]

If I had a choice SF-because there are parts that of it that are still sane. I grew up in San Diego which is still pretty conservative.

I've come to the conclusion I'd rather live in California too, and Sacramento would be my choice of the three I offered. That is because the Kings are my favorite Western Conference NBA team (at least they would be, if I watched the NBA). Plus, they have a cool minor league logo...

As far as San Diego, I ALSO agree. I love that place, because it is conservative for the most part & because I love the Chargers (my 2nd favorite AFC team) and the Padres are my 3rd favorite National League team behind the Brewers & Marlins. I also associate the city with the military so closely, so that doesn't hurt either...

Sincerely,

--- vbprogjoe (Joe W.)