Presidential Debate #1 Notes

[piratesmvp04]

Here's the notes I took on this debate and who I think won. Please comment! I used a scoring system to judge the winner. The scoring is broken down into 2 parts: Issues and Aesthetics. The Issues section judges how well the candidates explained their points. The aesthetics judges their composure.

The Issues is judged on a scale of 1-4, which is given to EACH QUESTION proposed by the moderator.

4 points=Easy win

3 points=win

2 points=Edge

1 point=Tie

The Aesthetics is broken down into 3 parts: Speaking, Composure, and Address. Speaking involves speach skills, composure involves how well they compose themselves onstage, and Address involves the confidence in which they present their views. This involves how they look at who they're speaking to. Each point is graded on a scale of 1-10.

---------------

ISSUES

1. Obama - 4

2. Tie 1-1

3. McCain - 2

4. "Lessons from Iraq War": Tie 1-1

5. "Iran Threat": McCain - 3

6. "Russia": Tie 1-1

7. "Likelihood of another 9/11 attack": Tie 1-1

8. "Closing remarks": Tie 1-1

SUBTOTALS: Obama=9 McCain=10

ISSUES WINNER: McCain

AESTHETICS

Speaking: Obama=8 McCain=9

Composure: Obama=10 McCain=9

Address: Obama=9 McCain=7

SUBTOTALS: Obama=28 McCain=25

AESTHETICS WINNER: Obama

TOTALS:

McCain=35

Obama=36

DEBATE WINNER: BARACK OBAMA

NOTES: Both candidates seemed to focus more on complementing the other candidate than Bush and Kerry did in '04. There is an increased focus on bipartisan solutions in this election. Both candidates defended their positions on completely different grounds. John McCain emphasized his military and political experience as well as hands-on activites in the Middle-East and other foreign countries. Barack Obama focused on strategy/plan specifics in his points. He often repeated points from his website. Both candidates avoided discussing the bail-out bill despite Moderator Jim Lehrer's attempts to get them to give an opinion on it.

SIDE NOTES: McCain for whatever reason never once looked at Obama during the debates, even when Lehrer encouraged the candidates to discuss amongst themselves. He also seemed to keep laughing aobut something as if he thought the whole thing was a joke. That could lead to differences in opinion on who won the debate depending on whether you saw it on TV or listened to it on the radio (as with the Kennedy-Nixon debate).

[Sean O]

Nicely done, but I guess I'd give it to McCain simply out of Obama's inaction. I am simply astonished that Obama didn't go for the jugular on at least a half dozen occasions: NATO/georgia, GI Bill, Keating, McCain's Iraq escalation, experience vis a vis the Palin pick, earmarks, etc.

I think the end result of the debate was that Obama came off as weak willed, while McCain was simply patronizing. I was expecting more from both of them, and realized quickly that this sort of forum is a pathetic way to argue policy. The end result and mutual desire isn't consensus between informed parties, it's tricking those of the electorate who know the least.

[piratesmvp04]

Nicely done, but I guess I'd give it to McCain simply out of Obama's inaction. I am simply astonished that Obama didn't go for the jugular on at least a half dozen occasions: NATO/georgia, GI Bill, Keating, McCain's Iraq escalation, experience vis a vis the Palin pick, earmarks, etc.

I think the end result of the debate was that Obama came off as weak willed, while McCain was simply patronizing. I was expecting more from both of them, and realized quickly that this sort of forum is a pathetic way to argue policy. The end result and mutual desire isn't consensus between informed parties, it's tricking those of the electorate who know the least.

Yeah, I expected a lot more as well, but if I had to say overall, I think it was about even. There were some areas where McCain was better than Obama and others where Obama sounded more confident than McCain, but it wasn't much exciting. The '04 debates were a lot more interesting. Hopefully we'll see something better next time.

[dannyt]

All I know is I wish that Ron Paul was there to show how similar McCain and Obama are. Or should I say Mcbama.

Obama did come off as weak willed, as Sean O said. But everything that said tonight has already been said, including McCain's bad jokes.

Well said Sean O.

[GEOLINK]

McCain is another Bush why can't you guys see that.

[Sean O]

McCain is another Bush why can't you guys see that.

THIS is the sort of garbage we don't need in threads like this. Pirate gave a very reasoned, and reasonable post, and we're arguing the merits of the debate. Throwing pointless crap like this into the thread isn't helping anything.

When you make a stupid argument, you denigrate from everyone who shares your opinion. And when you do so in a completely improper place, it's exacerbated.

[piratesmvp04]

Oh yeah, about the jokes. McCain's one about the veto pen was a little lame, but Obama's one about drinking tea with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gave me a laugh.

[piratesmvp04]

THIS is the sort of garbage we don't need in threads like this. Pirate gave a very reasoned, and reasonable post, and we're arguing the merits of the debate. Throwing pointless crap like this into the thread isn't helping anything.

When you make a stupid argument, you denigrate from everyone who shares your opinion. And when you do so in a completely improper place, it's exacerbated.

Thank you, SeanO. I tried to put aside my political beliefs and be as fair as possible in my critique of the debate.

[HardcoreLegend]

Oh yeah, about the jokes. McCain's one about the veto pen was a little lame, but Obama's one about drinking tea with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gave me a laugh.

I chuckled when McCain said "What, did you think I couldn't hear him?"

[NeoMExelor]

How does Barack Obama score better for composure? All night he was looking around like he was missing a date and he also kept interrupting John McCain.

[Sean O]

I chuckled when McCain said "What, did you think I couldn't hear him?"

Lehr seemed like he was trying to counsel two estranged partners. "I want you to talk to each other" in a weirdly calming voice.

What a weird bleeping night. Epic fail for democracy.

[AstroEric]

I'm surprised that a copy of the script of tonight's debate didn't leak beforehand.

"Final thoughts, Senator McCain?"

"When I got out of prison...."

Also: McCain's tie was a terrible choice.

[Sean O]

How does Barack Obama score better for composure? All night he was looking around like he was missing a date and he also kept interrupting John McCain.

HAH. Because it was one-sided.

This is why the debates are idiotic. You get to see the two feasible options for the president of the largest democracy in the world interrupt each other as they launch half-truths out to the uninformed. There is never a debate when two people keep talking over each other.

[piratesmvp04]

How does Barack Obama score better for composure? All night he was looking around like he was missing a date and he also kept interrupting John McCain.

Yeah, I guess you could argue that, but McCain seemed a little uneasy himself the whole time up there as well. He seemed to be irritated at times about something, and perhaps that's the reason why he never looked at Obama so that it wouldn't ignite any fury (given his temper) that he'd regret later.

[Sean O]

Yeah, I guess you could argue that, but McCain seemed a little uneasy himself the whole time up there as well. He seemed to be irritated at times about something, and perhaps that's the reason why he never looked at Obama so that it wouldn't ignite any fury (given his temper) that he'd regret later.

The first 10 minutes, you could see that Obama was intentionally needling McCain to test out the irish temper, while McCain didn't fight back. Once John felt reasonably sure that he was under control, he launched his own attacks. It was interesting strategically, just not for a policy wonk.

There's going to be a ton of spin on both sides, but whatever. I'd rather just forget about it for democracy's sake and move on. Let's hope they both learn some oratorical skills in time for the next one.

[HardcoreLegend]

I just don't understand people who can clearly say one candidate won this debate. I must have been watching some other debate than these 'uncomitted' voters.

Both candidates played out to be exactly who I thought they were and neither really rose above the other. If there ever was a debate 'tie' in Presidential politics, this had to be it.

[Sean O]

For once, I agree with HCL. The 24 hour news folks will go nuts all weekend dissecting the most banal minutia trying to extract another few hours of something to talk about, while ignoring, say, any backstory on what one another says. And nobody will bother to check factcheck.org to see how both were lying or mis-representing themselves for the full 90.

If the news stations sought to inform instead of decide, the debates could have some semantic value.

[HardcoreLegend]

i just checked factcheck.org for the first time in a few weeks and my goodness, the Obama ads are all lies. I had absolutely no idea they were putting so many false ads out.

[Sean O]

i just checked factcheck.org for the first time in a few weeks and my goodness, the Obama ads are all lies. I had absolutely no idea they were putting so many false ads out.

..... you can't be serious. that is what you get from factcheck. really. when you read the front page of factcheck, the noteworthy thing you get is that Obama is running false attacks.

mesmerizing. absolutely, 100% astonishing.

[HardcoreLegend]

I counted 5 ads put out by the Obama campaign that were labeled false and 1 by the McCain campaign.

Don't see what is so mesmerizing about that.

[Sean O]

Topic headers is such an insane basis to go by, especially when both are smearing each other on ridiculous points. Did you read the page on how they're both misleading the public? Or the fact that the spanish section includes how both are wrong? Or that there happen to be more PACs spinning negatives out of the right instead of the left?

This is the sort of crap we need to reform in this electoral process. TV ads are about the worst way to convey information, since it discourages telling the truth. Both are entirely complicit in being intentionally misleading, which both can do so without any oversight. Ban political ads, set up a variety of alternative forms of discussion and debate, and institute a weighted voting system where being informed is a benefit rather than a liability.

This is a stupid way to see who's the best leader. And taking pot shots at one another over whose campaign is using lower tactics is the last thing we should be doing.

[HardcoreLegend]

How is any of what you said directly related to what I said? All I did was point out a fact. I had no realized how much lying the Obama camp was doing. I thought they were above that sort of thing but they are just as apt to put out a false ad as the right.

[Sean O]

How is any of what you said directly related to what I said? All I did was point out a fact. I had no realized how much lying the Obama camp was doing. I thought they were above that sort of thing but they are just as apt to put out a false ad as the right.

Exactly, which goes to show that the system is deeply flawed. I took your point to be the "Obama is WAY WORSE than McCain thing", but no, they're both liars. That's the way the system is set up, and that's the way it always will be until it is fundamentally changed.

I don't believe any of that hope or change crap; I agree with Obama and can see he has a delineated plan. You can't work outside of a system as messed up as this is, and lord knows the man has his failings that have frustrated me to no end so far. Attack ads should never be a part of the debate, and lately they're the only part.

edit:

btw, you going to be up for a bit? I should have something for you in a few mins, k?

[HardcoreLegend]

I will stay up for you JUST THIS ONCE!

Good day, sir!

[Sean O]

I will stay up for you JUST THIS ONCE!

that's what he said