Mvp Or Mlb 2k9: Which One Are You Playing?

[InSainn]

I find that 2k9 plays rather realistic, and I keep track of team stats to track it (I've posted my results in other threads, and they're pretty right on).

Realism isn't measured in stats that the game produces. Especially when there's videos online of the balls simply going thru an invisible hole in bats. Pitches that look like slow pitch softball and don't break but rather gradually slide aren't realistic. Outfielders doing barrel rolls when they can't find the ball isn't realistic. Guys kicking around the dirt as the ball sails just over their head isn't realistic. Throwing a runner out at first on a base hit from right field isn't realistic. Baserunners running out of the baseline and diving in the middle of the field isn't realistic... Now, need I go on?

[MarkB]

I cannot for the life of me understanding why this debate is even happening,

the mlb 2k series is awful.

And besides this website is called mvpmods.com, it pisses me off that the downloads section is being dominated by 2k9 updates, there should be a separate website for it.

MVP 2005 is the greatest baseball game ever made, and its should be the focus of ALL modding

Are you actually serious?

Realism isn't measured in stats that the game produces. Especially when there's videos online of the balls simply going thru an invisible hole in bats. Pitches that look like slow pitch softball and don't break but rather gradually slide aren't realistic. Outfielders doing barrel rolls when they can't find the ball isn't realistic. Guys kicking around the dirt as the ball sails just over their head isn't realistic. Throwing a runner out at first on a base hit from right field isn't realistic. Baserunners running out of the baseline and diving in the middle of the field isn't realistic... Now, need I go on?

Although I do agree to a point, if we all take off the rose-tinted sunglasses, we'll all see that MVP is not without it's many faults as well. Since 2K9 has been released, a lot of the people that have went back to MVP - and I have nothing against them whatsoever as I have considered it a few times and am still not fully decided - seem to be blissfully ignoring the fact that there is also a hell of a lot about MVP that we don't like. However, we deal with it. I could make a similar list about MVP, including "a ball spontaneously appearing in the pitcher's hand after each pitch isn't realistic, an outfielder running through outfield walls isn't realistic, gloves, balls and players going through other players isn't realistic, and no 40-man rosters in September isn't realistic". Also, let's not forget that MVP also has the "ball going through bat" bug. Collision detection is relatively poor in both games, considering the current state of gaming.

[gobluen07]

Playing MVP and the Show over at a friends house when I have the chance. I will NOT EVER play MLB 2K9 again, nor any other 2K release... Anyone who honestly believes it's a good game doesn't know what realistic baseball is...

I would have to disagree with ya on this one. I PLAYED the game of baseball for 17 years of my life. From high school on at a very high level, including high school championships and AAU ball. I've met quite a few big league players and I'm still a rabid baseball fan to this day. So I think I have a pretty good Idea of what real baseball is. I still enjoy the game lots, it has its flaws sure, but what game doesn't now days.

Sorry for the rant, but don't tell folks they don't know what real baseball is just because you don't like the game.

[InSainn]

I still enjoy the game lots, it has its flaws sure, but what game doesn't now days.

Answer: MLB The Show 09

I have yet to find any major flaws in that game... as close as you'll find to perfect simulation.

So you played baseball that long and still can't recognize that pitches (from the batters view) in MLB2K9 resemble slow pitch softball more than they do big league pitching?

[InSainn]

Although I do agree to a point, if we all take off the rose-tinted sunglasses, we'll all see that MVP is not without it's many faults as well. Since 2K9 has been released, a lot of the people that have went back to MVP - and I have nothing against them whatsoever as I have considered it a few times and am still not fully decided - seem to be blissfully ignoring the fact that there is also a hell of a lot about MVP that we don't like. However, we deal with it. I could make a similar list about MVP, including "a ball spontaneously appearing in the pitcher's hand after each pitch isn't realistic, an outfielder running through outfield walls isn't realistic, gloves, balls and players going through other players isn't realistic, and no 40-man rosters in September isn't realistic". Also, let's not forget that MVP also has the "ball going through bat" bug. Collision detection is relatively poor in both games, considering the current state of gaming.

Yes, MVP does have some flaws. It's flaws are due to errors in mapping and and the limits on what could be done 4 years ago. Quite frankly, isn't it pretty pathetic that a debate even exists between a brand new game and a game that's 4 years old? 2K's flaws aren't limited to poor mapping and collision or on memory requirements. 2K's flaws are much more severe in that they try to pass a second rate product year after year. Oh, and please tell me when you've seen a ball go thru the bat in MVP cause in 4 years of playing it I have yet to see it happen...

[wrigleyville33]

mlb 09 all the way for me. The most realistic baseball game I have ever played. Mvp will always be mvp, and I will never stop playing it...

[gobluen07]

Answer: MLB The Show 09

I have yet to find any major flaws in that game... as close as you'll find to perfect simulation.

So you played baseball that long and still can't recognize that pitches (from the batters view) in MLB2K9 resemble slow pitch softball more than they do big league pitching?

The show is not perfect at all, go look at the show forums and see how much tweaking guys had to do to get it play right, and if you turn the pitching speed up to 100 in 2k9 it definitely does not look like slow pitch softball.

[InSainn]

The show is not perfect at all, go look at the show forums and see how much tweaking guys had to do to get it play right, and if you turn the pitching speed up to 100 in 2k9 it definitely does not look like slow pitch softball.

So it needed some tweaking with the sliders, every game needs that. Compare the Show out of the box to 2K9 out of the box... there is no comparison... 2K9 is arcade baseball... if that's what you want more power to ya...

[gobluen07]

So it needed some tweaking with the sliders, every game needs that. Compare the Show out of the box to 2K9 out of the box... there is no comparison... 2K9 is arcade baseball... if that's what you want more power to ya...

No arcade baseball over here, and didn't you say you don't even own either game?

[MarkB]

No 40 man rosters in September couldn't be done in 2005? A catcher not throwing a ball to a pitcher couldn't be done? Come on. Some of MVP's faults may be relating to mapping or weren't technically capable at that stage, but most of them are due to plain old oversights, poor implementation or rushing of the game by the suits.

Comparing a relatively old game with a new one can seem, at first glance, to be a pathetic argument, but think about it - some of the best games ever released were released back in the days were good graphics were impossible, so the gameplay had to be good. Some games these days have gone to the other end of the spectrum and value graphics more than gameplay. Saying 2K9 should be better than MVP simply because MVP is 4 years old is like saying today's arcade games should be better than Pac-man simply because Pac-man is 29 years old. It won't work.

I've seen balls and bats not making the correct collisions on numerous occasions, and I've been playing the game since around a month after it was released. We all have different experiences with games.

[InSainn]

No arcade baseball over here, and didn't you say you don't even own either game?

I own MVP... I play the Show as often as possible at a friends house and I did own 2K9... uninstalled it and sold it on ebay...

[Minnesota Twins]

I installed 2005 this afternoon and commenced the routine that usually accompanies an installation including the laundry list of modifications (Including some I have contributed throughout the years).

I played each (MLB 2K9 and MVP) this afternoon.

I could go into great length about the pro's and con's of each but I think I can sum it up in a couple statements made previously in this thread.

1.) It's time for a change

2.) As long as the community is modding for 2K9 I will continue to give it a chance and contribute some of my own.

MLB 2K9 is playable and the mood it sets is enough to keep me interested until the community picks up the slack until it is a great game.

As great of game as MVP is (IMO the best sports game "of it's time") I have logged over half a decade with the game and need a break.

All in all I guess PC Gamer's have to look on the bright side as MLB 2K9 is the first alternative for PC baseball gaming in 5 years.

[gobluen07]

I own MVP... I play the Show as often as possible at a friends house and I did own 2K9... uninstalled it and sold it on ebay...

Fair enough, don't get me wrong I'm not sayin the 2k9 is a better game than the show, because I know for a fact its not, but 2k9 doesn't play a bad game of baseball, it took a lot of work but its really not that bad.

[InSainn]

No 40 man rosters in September couldn't be done in 2005? A catcher not throwing a ball to a pitcher couldn't be done? Come on. Some of MVP's faults may be relating to mapping or weren't technically capable at that stage, but most of them are due to plain old oversights, poor implementation or rushing of the game by the suits.

Comparing a relatively old game with a new one can seem, at first glance, to be a pathetic argument, but think about it - some of the best games ever released were released back in the days were good graphics were impossible, so the gameplay had to be good. Some games these days have gone to the other end of the spectrum and value graphics more than gameplay. Saying 2K9 should be better than MVP simply because MVP is 4 years old is like saying today's arcade games should be better than Pac-man simply because Pac-man is 29 years old. It won't work.

I've seen balls and bats not making the correct collisions on numerous occasions, and I've been playing the game since around a month after it was released. We all have different experiences with games.

Find me another baseball game in 05 that had 40 man rosters...

And so the catcher doesn't throw the ball back... big f*ckin deal! Stupid bullsh*t like that doesn't make a game realistic or unrealistic. It's all about gameplay. If graphics, presentation and features are more important to you than have at it. But developers should be focusing on gameplay, period. Graphics are a nice feature but are worthless if the game's unplayable. Why do I care what others are playing? Because it's people like you who are patting 2K on the back saying it's ok to have sh*tty gameplay. Meanwhile it's 2K's fault we don't have an MVP 09, and I'm not talking an 09 mod but an actual game. Now there's something to think about, if EA could produce an MVP 09 is there any doubt in your mind that it would blow away 2K9?

[CircleChange11]

Realism isn't measured in stats that the game produces. Especially when there's videos online of the balls simply going thru an invisible hole in bats. Pitches that look like slow pitch softball and don't break but rather gradually slide aren't realistic. Outfielders doing barrel rolls when they can't find the ball isn't realistic. Guys kicking around the dirt as the ball sails just over their head isn't realistic. Throwing a runner out at first on a base hit from right field isn't realistic. Baserunners running out of the baseline and diving in the middle of the field isn't realistic... Now, need I go on?

I've seen all of the youtube "2k glitches" videos, and have not experienced them personally, outside of the manager walking through the grass ... but hurry up baseball eliminates that ... and the occassional OF glitch.

I've said this before, but I have a ton of experience with games. I started with generic baseball games on early PCs, MicroLeague (1 and 2), Earl Weaver Baseball (1 and 2), BBPRO (96-98), Tony Larussa and Old Time Baseball (1, 2, 3, 4), Hardball (1-6), High Heat (99-2003), TriplePlay (97-99), MVP (05-08), 2k7/8/9, and The Show 08 (on ps2), and most of the console games (Bases Loaded 2 was pretty good, RBI was played for money/beer in college, as was TecmoBowl). As well as being a stas geek, I was also a pretty good LHP/1B/OF from t-ball through college and some pro tryout invites (KC,CWS,PIT,STL ... got to pitch at Busch Stadium TWICE <--pretty cool) . Furtermore, I was the pitching coach for 2 sectional champs (out of 3 years), and a junior high state champ (2007). I guess you have to bring those things up, or people just assume that everyone but them knows something about the game.

I don't see the big deal with the crticisms of 2k9, while admittingly it is a 7/10 game. My 7yo son plays the show all the time. I don't get the major appeal (as compared to just playing MVP08). It's the same pitch meter, with many of the hits/animations being repetitive. 2k9 works for a summer of enjoyment.

I rmember when EA's game was trash, until 3DO produced HH and forced EA to get their crap together. HH still has/had AI trade logic and features (including 4 levels of minor leagues) that no game has reproduced (unfortunately). Tony2 had GM career features that still are well above what exists today.

We tend to look at games differently, and I think in lots of cases we see mob mentality in regards to not be able to see any good/bad things in the games we love/hate.

[Hoop27]

CC and I see it pretty much the same way here. I think it's time to bust out a good Earl Weaver League LOL!

2K has done a couple things right...

1) the pitching is unbelievably good.

2) presentation is outstanding.

3) It costed $20, and after the patch it justifies $20

MVP overall is a far better game. But guess what it gets old after 4 years.

Now if you want to blame anyone for why we have had a rash of crap games blame MLB and the MLBPA for signing exclusivity deals!

The NFL is just as bad and that is why you are seeing better hockey and basketball games right now, because there is competition for the mass dollar.

[InSainn]

CC and I see it pretty much the same way here. I think it's time to bust out a good Earl Weaver League LOL!

2K has done a couple things right...

1) the pitching is unbelievably good.

2) presentation is outstanding.

3) It costed $20, and after the patch it justifies $20

MVP overall is a far better game. But guess what it gets old after 4 years.

Now if you want to blame anyone for why we have had a rash of crap games blame MLB and the MLBPA for signing exclusivity deals!

The NFL is just as bad and that is why you are seeing better hockey and basketball games right now, because there is competition for the mass dollar.

I do agree with you on one thing, Madden has gotten to be just as bad as MLB 2K

[lautrec]

Find me another baseball game in 05 that had 40 man rosters...

And so the catcher doesn't throw the ball back... big f*ckin deal! Stupid bullsh*t like that doesn't make a game realistic or unrealistic. It's all about gameplay. If graphics, presentation and features are more important to you than have at it. But developers should be focusing on gameplay, period. Graphics are a nice feature but are worthless if the game's unplayable. Why do I care what others are playing? Because it's people like you who are patting 2K on the back saying it's ok to have sh*tty gameplay. Meanwhile it's 2K's fault we don't have an MVP 09, and I'm not talking an 09 mod but an actual game. Now there's something to think about, if EA could produce an MVP 09 is there any doubt in your mind that it would blow away 2K9?

I don't think it's OK to have crappy gameplay. I just happen to enjoy 2K09 becuase for me, it's GREAT gameplay. The patch has made a nice difference for me, and with some settings adjustments, this game is a terriffic gameplay experience for me. I tried to return to MvP, but it was too clunky and old for me. I really like this game. I don't find it arcadish or stupid. I liked MVP while I was playing it, enjoyed the fact that many great individuals were modding a game that EA quit on because of licensing, and had fun with it. I am having fun with 2K, because in my opinion, it's a good game. If you want to be mad at me for that, I guess that's your problem. I have and will continue to email support to 2K, for further advancements in this series. I will play it, tweak it, and provide POSITIVE input at every opportunity, and rational, well-thought out, non-knee jerk critical response as well, in the interest of improving the play on a game that this company happens to hold MLB licensing. Can you dig that?

[JoeRudi26]

The bottom line is, the entire PC baseball community is ready for a solid, next gen PC baseball game. Instead of getting Madden's and Tiger Wood's shoved down our throats on an annual basis, I don't understand why someone (it doesn't have to be EA) won't pick up the ball and run with it. There is (us) a community out there that is more than willing to drop their hard earned money for a brand named company to produce exactly what we want in a baseball game. I mean, is it really that hard to implement a 40 man roster in September?

Here we find ourselves at odds on two sides of the fence:

1. A 5 year old baseball game that has served way more than it's purpose, and is obviously outdated in many ways. Not to mention it is not entirely flawless.

2. A baseball game that was ported to PC merely as an after thought, and is broke in so, SO many ways.

It's 2009, and it's been nearly 5 years since anyone has even taken the thought of a PC baseball game serious. It's way over due.

[CircleChange11]

It's 2009, and it's been nearly 5 years since anyone has even taken the thought of a PC baseball game serious. It's way over due.

Didn't MLB exclusive licensing pretty much eliminate this? HH and MVP were stopped when 2K bought the rights. Hardball was outcompeted by HH & MVP, and much of the other games could not compete b/c they were mainly stat sims, with minimal graphics and subpar gameplay.

On the PC, you're basicaly left with console ports or straight simulations like BMogual and OOTP. I own both, but can't really get into them, b/c I want to actually play the game.

With the limitations existing, I'm content with a console port, provided that the port isn't the same rushed product that the consoles get. I'm wondering if Sony is going to also provide a PC version of The Show, next year. I guess that depends on how sales of PC versions of 2k9 do .... but it seems to be a rich, untapped market with serous potential.

I really miss High Heat series. They did so many things right in that game, and the company/series seemed to come out of nowhere, with high quality right from the start, developing into one of the most complete baseball games we've seen ... particularly HH2003.

[JoeRudi26]

I really miss High Heat series.

Me too. I can't imagine what the series could have grown into with their dedication and today's technology.

[CircleChange11]

I loved the Trade AI and feature, where you would offer a player to another team in exhange for one of their players, and if it wasn't enough they would send you a list/name of a player that they wanted to complete the deal ... and they didn't mess around. If you were trying to nab their stud in AA with a 95 potential ... you were going to give up a some talent to get him. I don't know if I ever "robbed" the AI in a trade.

If you wanted to get rid of someone, the AI would post a list of players you could choose from to complete the deal, and they didn' screw around then either.

THe 4 levels of minor leaguers were complete with full ratings, and complete split stats. The mods on that game (editor, jerseys, tune files, etc) just made it even better.

What I find interesting in this discussion is that basically the "Dons of MVP" (Modders, Legends, etc) are defending 2k9 (to a point) & pointing out that MVP isn't perfect, and people are disagreeing. What can ya do?

[emath2432]

With the limitations existing, I'm content with a console port, provided that the port isn't the same rushed product that the consoles get. I'm wondering if Sony is going to also provide a PC version of The Show, next year. I guess that depends on how sales of PC versions of 2k9 do .... but it seems to be a rich, untapped market with serous potential.

Pretty sure this WONT happen, because of the deal 2k has. The only reason you can even play The Show is because the deal allows for Sony to make a game for their systems. I am not sure how this would work, but I think Microsoft MIGHT be able to get away with making a game for PC, since it makes Windows, but I am not even sure they could get away with that.

Microsoft Baseball 2001 was a good, fun game. One of the first games I ever enjoyed enough to play an entire season on, and had somewhat realistic outcomes stat wise (though it was kinda buggy). Had better graphics than High Heat too. Tried playing HH 2001, after Microsoft, and couldn't handle the crappy graphics. Of course, the next year I fell in love with HH 2k2, and then 2k3, but that isn't the point. Point is, Microsoft could probably come up with a decent game, and might be able to do a PC version for Windows. Then again, it may end up being a crummy port of the XBox 360.

[Hoop27]

simple solution is to make a game without a license. Which would most likely end up being a modders dream.

Too bad it wouldn't sell to the mass consumers

[CircleChange11]

simple solution is to make a game without a license. Which would most likely end up being a modders dream.

Too bad it wouldn't sell to the mass consumers

That's what BBPRO series was. You had players names because the MLBPA can have multiple licenses, but the teams were "Cleveland Natives", "St.Louis Redbirds", etc. No big deal because you could edit the team names anyway. Hardball did the same thing with fake logos.

BBPRO was nice in that you could have 50+ teams in an association and up to 3 leagues with approx 18 teams in a league. If there weren't enough MLB players to fill all the levels of all the teams, the game would just generate fake players to fill out the rosters. One of the best games, from customization, accurate stats, lots of stats, and running a league.