Updating Rosters

[DylanBradbury]

DB ... I think you're a smart guy. So, when I read comments like this I think you are intentionally miscontruing, mis-stating or misrepresenting what is actually being said.

Sorry. In no way did I intend to misconstrue, misstate, or misrepresent what you or anything else was being said. Patsen suggested modders make a bibliography:

Technically, shouldn't people be keeping references to the data they use, sort of a bibliography?

That's what I meant. I no way was I trying to put a spin on slant on anything anyone said, just stating facts. I'm sorry you think I am.

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- As for pitch lists, we can generally rip those off Mogul, which according to you is perfectly ethical, so at least that's a plus.

Patsen, in no means am I the "rule or ethics kingpin" around here. As for pitch repetoire's off of Mogul, and don't quote me on this, I think that's what the Total Classic team does.

[CircleChange11]

Sorry. In no way did I intend to misconstrue, misstate, or misrepresent what you or anything else was being said. Patsen suggested modders make a bibliography:

I apologize DB. I thought you were referring to my comments, and I thought I was very specific as to what types of material I felt needed cited/acknowledged (or even asked for permission for).

[DylanBradbury]

I apologize DB. I thought you were referring to my comments, and I thought I was very specific as to what types of material I felt needed cited/acknowledged (or even asked for permission for).

No worries man. You were crystal clear. I should have quoted Patsen earlier to avoid the confusion. We're cool.

[CircleChange11]

If someone took a Baseball Mogul roster and converted it to MVP

Hey, that 'someone' could be CircleChange11. I've been chit-chatting with a BM roster maker, and turns out BM calculates their ratings for the upcoming season based on 'projected stats' like what I am wanting to use.

I'm buying the game now, and going to play a lot of it to see how those ratings play as compared to MVP's and then see if I can figure out some type of correlation between the two, where a "translation" can successfully exist. (i.e., 85 contact on BM = ~.275, 77 contact on MVP = ~.275)

I will likely play around with a combination of "actual performance" stats and "projected stats", as I don't generally find either one to be a *best* predictor for the next season (one generally produces ratings that are 'too high'; the other ones that low. ), and then going through eat team and ensuring that their "4th starter" is actually rated as their "4th starter" or that the real '4th best pitcher' is rated as the 4th best picher.

[patsen]

Good thing we have this settled... there seemed to be inconsistencies in the answers, and you seemed to be preaching ethics with statements like "I couldn't sleep if". Just wanted to get a full answer.

As for converting ratings from Mogul, you can get a lot of info from it, especially if you download HoustonGM's rosters. Before you buy, check the demo. You can see a lot of how things work, if not directly apply, and you'll have the full help file for documentation.

I agree on most of the theory they put in, roster makers should be using 'true-talent' projections of what a player is capable of doing, instead of taking one sample, especially if this intends to be used in a franchise.

However, I don't think it'll translate directly. What constitutes power in Mogul won't lead to the same stats in MVP, which is why we should continue the research of what the effects of each stat are. If for instance, power in Mogul applies to Iso, but in MVP applies only to HR, you can see we'd hit some issues.

I do expect them to be invaluable in pitch info, however. As for fielding, it could be a starting point, but there's since been new movements, especially with TotalZone and UZR available on BRef and Fangraphs respectively.

There's only so much you can do without factoring in the other players on the field, or the abilities of the pitching staff. A high K pitcher puts less balls in play, which would make the defense on a whole look weaker. GB pitchers make the IF look better and the OF worse. A lefty-heavy pitching staff will cause more righties and more balls pulled. But this is a debate for another day. For now, it's probably close enough, though.

As for projections, they are based on actual performance, so unless you're trying to make a midseason roster set (which you probably are), the only question is how much 2009 to mix in to the projections, and how much regression to add. But I agree you should find the strength of each player in isolation first, and make sure to avoid bias. As much as players are good prospects, don't try to pump them up too soon, if they're not ready. Wieters and Price aren't the best players in the league yet.

[DJEagles]

Jesus...

It's quite simple: DO NOT use anyone's mods without prior consent. Just DON'T!

If you are making a total conversion mod, thank those whose mods you used.

What else is there to say?

[DylanBradbury]

It's quite simple: DO NOT use anyone's mods without prior consent. Just DON'T!

If you are making a total conversion mod, thank those whose mods you used.

What else is there to say?

CO-SIGNED x 1000!

[Yankee4Life]

Jesus...

It's quite simple: DO NOT use anyone's mods without prior consent. Just DON'T!

If you are making a total conversion mod, thank those whose mods you used.

What else is there to say?

Hahahahahaha. I said something very similar to this back on page three of this thread but it did no good at all so I basically just gave up and found something else to do.

[kgbaseball]

I stopped reading awhile ago as well.

[CircleChange11]

Hahahahahaha. I said something very similar to this back on page three of this thread but it did no good at all so I basically just gave up and found something else to do.

I don't understand this sentiment. Whose mod is being used without permission? That issue/question was "like so 3 pages ago" *grin*

We all know what the discussion, as part of community, is really about ... and we all know why we have to skirt the issue, talk in code, or play off or avoid certain comments. Again, MVP and modding are not unique in this regard. I don't mind ending my part of the discussion, because the discussion won't go anywhere ... becuse it can't, and we've had a perfect example of why it cannot recently posted in this very thread (not by me).

I will finish my involvement in the discussion with apologizing to kg for asking him direct questions regarding his work, which was inappropriate given the setting and content of the thread. I definitely should have asked him any questions in private, following an introduction. That was not fair to him at all, especially considering the 'temperature', tone, and context of the entire discussion.

Be certain, I greatly appreciate and respect the effort, talent, and contributions of the guys here ... and I follow the rules. Have a good one, gents.

[CircleChange11]

As for converting ratings from Mogul, you can get a lot of info from it, especially if you download HoustonGM's rosters.

That's who I spoke with regarding BM ratings.

Before you buy, check the demo. You can see a lot of how things work, if not directly apply, and you'll have the full help file for documentation.

I've been a regular BM owner, I just haven't played it since 08. Heh, I said 'regular BM'. Classic.

However, I don't think it'll translate directly. What constitutes power in Mogul won't lead to the same stats in MVP, which is why we should continue the research of what the effects of each stat are. If for instance, power in Mogul applies to Iso, but in MVP applies only to HR, you can see we'd hit some issues.

There'll need to be a lot of going through the rosters, name by name, using baseball knowledge and baseball information, combined with testing to get a good feel of things 'being right'. That's the fun part. To me, that's the part that's been "undercooked" so to speak.

The more I think about it, the more I'll likely just edit the ratings in my current franchise and continue to enjoy playing the season out. The time for this big of a project for a game like MVP was 3 years ago ... when i was putting my efforts into trying to get 2k7 to 'work'. Next year, I'll be playing MLB '10.

[jollydodger]

You bought the game, which means you can do what you damn well please with it. If you're standing on the shoulders of someone else but didn't pay anything, then that person has some rights and should be consulted.