CleveCluby Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Well after watching the entire game, I must say I am really disappointed... After reading all the hype about the new pitching meter and pitchers not always throwing strikes... WRONG.... There was only one 3 and 2 count during the whole game.. The pitch count was extremely low... Just exactly like last year.. NO WALKS and no threats of a walk.. CC Sabathia was only down to 42% after 8 innings.. And still at that he was pretty accurate. I guess that would be a credit to the human that was pitching.. But I am not talking about human pitching, (though every pitch seemed to go exactly where it was aimed..) I am talking about the CPU pitching.. I would be willing to bet that if you, as a human player, just stood there and never would swing the bat, you would not draw one walk in a 9-inning game against a CPU pitcher.. You would have 27 Ks... The lack of walks and pitch counts really put a huge damper on the game for me last year. I was really hoping that this issue was going to be addressed this year after all the complaints that flooded the boards last year. Other than that the game looked pretty decent, didn’t see any diving catches.. I did like how the CPU moved it's fielders around in certain situations. I did not see any attempted base stealing or hit and runs. On a side note, I can't understand why the human coach did not bunt in the 9th with runners on first and second and no outs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoggi Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 CleveCluby, Now your a REAL baseball guy who knows what he's saying. This was all my points exactly! I was saying this in another thread and everyone blasted me. From what I saw, there was not very many improvements. Theres going to be a lot of unhappy people,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The H Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Guys, guys... let's relax, please. There's still at least another week or so of "bug testing and fine tuning" for the game before it goes GOLD... let's not jump and make conclusions based on a video of ONE GAME... we don't even know what kind of build the IGN guys used to make those demos... so please, let's wait and see. And Samoggi, btw, not everybody blasted you :|... and if I always see "the good side of things", well, maybe it's because after my accident, life has a new meaning for me ... (and when talking about not-yet-released games, the fact that I've been involved in quite a few alpha and beta testing projects for several big game developers and I'm friends with various game designers helps a lot too ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCH3900 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 ya, chill :mrgreen: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleveCluby Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I agree H.... But pitch count was the biggest issue for me last year. Most of the problems that the game suffered last year were semi corrected by the incredible, talented and dedicated MVP game modders. ( PC version )..... They're efforts fixed many issues or at least made the game playable.. Only a few major flaws couldn't be corrected like the left-handed HR issue, and the lack of pitch counts and walk's which directly effected stats.. And stats reflect realism for me... I realize that might not be important for many, But I am a Coach only and Dynasty type player. I only play about 25% of my games as a Human thumb jockey.. So in essence of watching a CPU Vs CPU game, you will not see any walks.. Still, MVP is one of the best graphic BB games on the market.. And I will buy it for the CPU regardless.. Praying that the Mods will make it playable and enjoyable as they did last year. Even in the interview at Operation Sports, EA hinged on the question about more walks and said but if you are a patient batter you may draw a few.. He really sidestepped the question... This is why I paid very close attention to the 9 in video. I still have high hopes and will never figure out why they simply couldn't add a slider that effected CPU pitching control for example accurate too wild... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCH3900 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 the added a walks slider this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleveCluby Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWWWWW !!!!!!!! :oops: 8O If that is correct, Then I humbley and gladly stand corrected......... Can you show me where you found that information.. Everything I have read, watched, viewed says nothing of a Walk Slider.... And I have searched.... I really, really, hope you are right and that it actually works.. Thanks for the info in advance..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhall Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Here is how Ben Brinkman (associate producer) answered the walks question: "Finally, the more walks question is an interesting one. If you want to know about more CPU walks taken guess the answer depends on how you pitch. If you throw a lot of strikes then no the CPU will not walk more. If you mix some balls in there, then yes, he will walk more. As far as users being better able to take walks, we have increased the number of balls thrown by the CPU pitcher. This is another thing that can be adjusted to your liking in the slider menu. One hiccup by us last year was not adding this slider. We tuned the game to make it too accessible to new users (i.e. CPU throws more strikes) and in doing so inadvertently penalized veterans of MVP. With the addition of the Hitter’s Eye we believe that all users will have a better chance of success against pitchers who spend time out of the zone so MVP 2005 will feature more CPU balls." "Finally, despite assertions to the contrary all our sliders work and have an affect on gameplay. I know this because I tuned the game using our sliders. " We won't really know until we play it, but at least it appears as though they addressed the walks issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleveCluby Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Thanks abhall.. I’ve read that several times but not quit sure exactly what it is saying.. It sounds like they added a slider, but it doesn't quite say what it is or how it works. On the other hand it sounds like it is saying that they built it in the game that the pitchers throw more balls.. ("Finally, the more walks question is an interesting one. If you want to know about more CPU walks taken guess the answer depends on how you pitch. If you throw a lot of strikes then no the CPU will not walk more. If you mix some balls in there, then yes, he will walk more ) Well that seems logical.. But the problem is or was it was to easy to throw strikes last year.. You could paint the corners even if you missed the meter... Or worse, If you missed, it turned into a fat pitch for the batter.. And of course if you tried to throw a ball and hit your mark.. The batter would never swing.. ( As far as users being better able to take walks, we have increased the number of balls thrown by the CPU pitcher. This is another thing that can be adjusted to your liking in the slider menu. One hiccup by us last year was not adding this slider.) This is the part that makes it sound like a slider was added.... ( With the addition of the Hitter’s Eye we believe that all users will have a better chance of success against pitchers who spend time out of the zone so MVP 2005 will feature more CPU balls." This almost makes it sound like the slider has something to do with the new hitters eye... Guess we will just wait and see.. Maybe the guys from IGN just wanted to play the easiest mode they could get.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoserthehorrible Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I think there are a couple things to consider regarding pitch counts and walks after watching the 9 inning video between Toronto and Cleveland. I counted 71 pitches in 9 innings for the CPU controlled pitcher. That is way too low. Ideally it should be in the 120+ range. However, the human controlled batter rarely took any pitches. The user swung at almost every pitch in the strike zone, near the strike zone, and more importantly out of the strike zone. If you don't watch at least 4 pitches go by for any given batter then by definition you can't possibly draw a walk. I think a more patient user would have been able to draw a lot more pitches and likely a few walks. Hell, I can draw a walk or two per game in MVP 2004. I counted 73 pitches in 8 innings for the user controlled pitcher. That also is too low. Some of the human controlled pitches thrown were perfect but a lot of them were early or late and a few of them were grossly early or late. The grossly early/late pitches missed the strike zone badly. The mildly early/late pitches did miss their mark and some of them were strikes while some of them were balls. There weren't that many perfectly thrown pitches so that is a good thing as far as I can tell. The thing to consider here is that the human controlled pitcher almost never tried to throw a ball on purpose in order to entice the batter to swing at a bad pitch or to set up another pitch. If every pitch is aimed at the strike zone then certainly a lot of strikes will result. We don't know what level this video was played at. It could have been rookie mode in which case there will most definitely be more strikes thrown. It didn't appear to be All Star or MVP mode in my opinion. We also have no idea what the slider settings were. As the producer has indicated there is a slider for pitcher accuracy and it may have not been messed with at all. It's entirely possible that a little tweaking of this could result in a lot more missed pitches and a lot more balls. I did a see a couple at bats where the batter fouled off a number of pitches. If the user were a little more patient, and there's a couple 8 or 9 pitch at bats like there were in the video, then pitch counts could easily get well over a 100 for 9 innings worth of pitching. I did see some nice subtle enhancements that were welcome additions. For instance.... I saw the left fielder dive and roll on a ball that he had to run hard to get to. I also saw the first baseman throw the ball to the pitcher as he was running to cover first base. I saw the 3rd baseman and shortstop throw the ball to the second baseman before he was on the bag. I saw a lefty hit the game winning home run. I saw an infielder dive and stop a ball and then throw the ball without having to get all the way up to his feet. I didn't see any unbelievable diving catches or too many foul ball outs. I didn't see too many gappers go for triples or inside the park HRs. Last year, for the user controlled teams specially, most of the runs were scored via the long ball and not many runs were scored via small ball. In the video many of the runs were scored via multiple hits in an inning and not with the long ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emil Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 about to watch it. I wish it was 2 diff. teams though...Yeah, who cares about the Idians and the Jays playing eachother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YogiYahooeys Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I just watched the video myself. From what I could tell, it was the Xbox version. What are the odds that the PC version will run as smoothly. Of all of the complaints that I had about last year's version, it was that even after all of the patches, the game was still herky jerky in the ball movements... BTW, did anyone else notice a fielder's choice incorrectly called a hit in the bottom of the 4th? Here's to hoping this one gets caught before release... Ruminations: It must be an incredibly difficult balance working on all of the aspects of the game: physics, statistics, graphics, sound... You have to wonder if developing a realistic sports game isn't the most difficult project in software development.... When you make a FPS, especially of the sci-fi variety, the only objective is to make the game fun/challenging to play. In sports, there is a living example of what you are trying to simulate; however, this is very possibly the worst situation. Part of the draw of sports is that you often see something new and amazing every day. The variety, the unexpected is what drives many to watch and/or participate. Imagine having to simulate that.... Oh well, I'm looking forward to the new (and last) release of MVP. Oh and it's nice to see some people from the old High Heat communities hanging around here. Cheers gentlemen. YY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I'm downloading the video now, although I also would have preferred different teams. It's good that we have this as a resource though, as long as a few more are created by different users playing the game at IGN. I don't think we can review the gam,e based on one video and certainly not from what I've read in this thread with the user swinging early in the count etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Is it just me or does the video get screwed up toward the end of the 1st part? Starts stuttering etc. :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APR Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I haven't watched it yet, but it's gonna be good since the Indians are my favorite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaxamand0r Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I agree H.... But pitch count was the biggest issue for me last year. Most of the problems that the game suffered last year were semi corrected by the incredible, talented and dedicated MVP game modders. ( PC version )..... They're efforts fixed many issues or at least made the game playable.. Only a few major flaws couldn't be corrected like the left-handed HR issue, and the lack of pitch counts and walk's which directly effected stats.. And stats reflect realism for me... I realize that might not be important for many, But I am a Coach only and Dynasty type player. I only play about 25% of my games as a Human thumb jockey.. So in essence of watching a CPU Vs CPU game, you will not see any walks.. Still, MVP is one of the best graphic BB games on the market.. And I will buy it for the CPU regardless.. Praying that the Mods will make it playable and enjoyable as they did last year. Even in the interview at Operation Sports, EA hinged on the question about more walks and said but if you are a patient batter you may draw a few.. He really sidestepped the question... This is why I paid very close attention to the 9 in video. I still have high hopes and will never figure out why they simply couldn't add a slider that effected CPU pitching control for example accurate too wild... But they said they DID add a slider (in the OS interview): As far as users being better able to take walks, we have increased the number of balls thrown by the CPU pitcher. This is another thing that can be adjusted to your liking in the slider menu. One hiccup by us last year was not adding this slider. We tuned the game to make it too accessible to new users (i.e. CPU throws more strikes) and in doing so inadvertently penalized veterans of MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawhitham Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 The wonders of being an Insider subscriber ! ??? I'm getting 300k down what does Insider get you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trues Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 ??? I'm getting 300k down what does Insider get you? I think it gets you a higher quality video but I'm not positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCH3900 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 personally, i think it looks nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjbushido Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 shoudla been SF V.S. LA :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCH3900 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhall Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 But they said they DID add a slider (in the OS interview): Even if they have a CPU Pitcher Control/Walks slider it's still possible it won't have as a significant effect on the game that we desire. I remember when EA implemented sliders in Madden. They were worthless.......Still, just the fact that they've created a Walks slider is an improvement over last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 ya, koskie a game winning shot It's not a game winner, it's hit in the bottom of the 8th. I don't think the video is a very good show of the game. It shows that the animations etc work quite nicely and there is none of the stupid stuff like there was in 2004, but I think it would need a better user to guage how good the gameplay is. And the graphics looked horrible. Maybe it was the quality of the video, but the Indians uniform looked ugly as ever and the Skydome looked very plain. And, like CY, I would like to know where in the hell they got the silver helmets from. I've never seen them used. I hope KC and the stadium modders have some free time when the game is released. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obredaan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Yeah, who cares about the Idians and the Jays playing eachother... Yeah especially in a video game!!! :roll: Who cares what teams they show as this is only for people who actually want a sneek peak at the game. I suggest you not watch the video and wait either until EA present a video with 2 better teams or just wait for the game instead of making childish comments that just make you look like a moron! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Stating your opinion is childish? I'll need to note that one. And I suggest you learn to use commas and exclamation marks correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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