New Roster Project Planned: I Need Your Help! First: Ratings

[wudl83]

I don't think that BSU-Fan can suggest anything on that since he used the first roster 2k released as a base (AFAIK) and I used the last (since there are many new players already ingame that I had not to create then).

What I realized is that the curveball goes back from yellow to green as long as you start throwing other pitches while the CB is yellow. But when it is red you won't ever be able to get it back to yellow or green.

I tested David Robertson (Yankees) one moment ago and he got the same problem. Joel Peralta (Tampa) shows the red CB, too.

I tested also Phil Hughes (Yankees) same problem with his knuckler.

It seems that a bunch of pitchers is affected and if I do not find a workaround I am done. Sorry. But I don't want to put so much work into a project that can't be enjoyed to the fullest. You got the bug with the cutoff-man not throwing, the terrible use of the bullpen which are old known problems, and now the CBs staying red and many other completely illogical things. I am really upset right now. I don't want to play a game where you can't throw Curves anymore.

I wasn't aware of this bug since I was only using BSU-Fan's roster all the time. And he based his roster of a very early or even the first version of 2k's roster where the bug wasn't happening.

[fatcowxlive]

I don't think that BSU-Fan can suggest anything on that since he used the first roster 2k released as a base (AFAIK) and I used the last (since there are many new players already ingame that I had not to create then).

What I realized is that the curveball goes back from yellow to green as long as you start throwing other pitches while the CB is yellow. But when it is red you won't ever be able to get it back to yellow or green.

I tested David Robertson (Yankees) one moment ago and he got the same problem. Joel Peralta (Tampa) shows the red CB, too.

It seems that a bunch of pitchers is affected and if I do not find a workaround I am done. Sorry. But I don't want to put so much work into a project that can't be enjoyed to the fullest. You got the bug with the cutoff-man not throwing, the terrible use of the bullpen which are old known problems, and now the CBs staying red and many other completely illogical things. I am really upset right now. I don't want to play a game where you can't throw Curves anymore.

I wasn't aware of this bug since I was only using BSU-Fan's roster all the time. And he based his roster of a very early or even the first version of 2k's roster where the bug wasn't happening.

Well what I used to do is that I would switch Darvish and who ever turned their pitches yellow quickly with a ~50 overall free agent and transfer over his face Id and his portrait id using a roster editor. I'm guessing you have the tools to import Darvish's past seasons (ReEditor Guru maybe?) and that issue would go away I think

[wudl83]

I did some further testing and now it seems that after some pitches every pitcher seems to be affected as long as he has a CB and you throw it often enough. Strange thing: I tested Wainwright and got his Curve red in the 1st inning and supersimmed the game until the 4th and now his pitch was green again.

[wudl83]

Well what I used to do is that I would switch Darvish and who ever turned their pitches yellow quickly with a ~50 overall free agent and transfer over his face Id and his portrait id using a roster editor. I'm guessing you have the tools to import Darvish's past seasons (ReEditor Guru maybe?) and that issue would go away I think

I can not edit every pitcher from a new...the problem does not only affect Darvish, it affects EVERY pitcher who has a curveball.

Darvish has no past seasons since last year was his first in the majors.

[sabugo]

WTF did 2KSports do?!

I'm guessing the sim engine works independently or in a different way than if you actually play the game.

Man, these dudes really complicated things when they designed this game.

Edited March 11, 2013 by sabugo

[wudl83]

No clue. I downloaded all latest official roster versions they have on 2k share from the one of 29th of Oct to the one of 2nd of Oct to test it and every version I tested had this flaw.

[wudl83]

I am currently testing the roster of the end of July. I have Nathan in for the Rangers. I threw 4 Curveballs to start the game. The CB got yellow. Meanwhile I am at the 15 pitch mark and have not thrown a Curveball since. In the mean time the Slider and Fastball both were yellow and both went back to green. But the curveball doesn't. It stays yellow. 23 pitches and it goes green again.

So the last working roster must have been released somewhere between July and October.

[wudl83]

What the heck is going on...I don't know why but I simply thought of testing my roster another time. I took Nathan one more time.

First 4 pitches were all CBs, CB got yellow. Then I threw a FB, CB stayed yellow. Then I threw another CB and CB turned red (5 of 6 pitches were CBs). Then I did not throw any more CBs. After pitch 22 the CB turned yellow and after pitch 29 it turned even green.

Why is it working now but wasn't working before? This thing gets stranger and stranger...

In a test scenario before I had thrown over 30 pitches and the CB was still red. Why does it yellow at 22 and green at 29 now?

Maybe I upset the apple cart and I was hysterical too early and all is working (maybe a little bit sloppy). Tomorrow I gonna finish the Mariners franchise and release the next beta.

[sask3m]

I'm seeing the "issue" with the curveball even using the out of the box roster with Nathan. Maybe it isn't an issue at all and just the way curveball's are rated or something. I also think that a reliever isn't the best pitcher to test with because the pitch count might have an effect on how fast pitches turn back to yellow or green from red.

Also maybe Nathan turned green for you in your latest test because more of the curveballs you threw with him were strikes and not balls? Just a thought.

For what it's worth I also tested this with xbox using default and last 2k roster's and seems to be just the same type of results as PC.

[sabugo]

I just think that if this was intended to work this way, then it just doesn't make much sense, does it?

Like I said before, in theory this is a good system. But it has to have some sort of checks and balances system to make it work properly.

Or is there something else that we're not getting? Because I've played something like at least 80 games in franchise mode and at least as many in exhibition mode and I've never noticed this happen. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but I doubt it.

[fatcowxlive]

I can not edit every pitcher from a new...the problem does not only affect Darvish, it affects EVERY pitcher who has a curveball.

Darvish has no past seasons since last year was his first in the majors.

1. Oh, for me I had only problems with Darvish, but now to think about it, the curve does get yellow faster than the rest... But I always thought it was a game mechanic

2. Woops lol, forgot Dravish played his first year last year :p

[wudl83]

I'm seeing the "issue" with the curveball even using the out of the box roster with Nathan. Maybe it isn't an issue at all and just the way curveball's are rated or something. I also think that a reliever isn't the best pitcher to test with because the pitch count might have an effect on how fast pitches turn back to yellow or green from red.

Also maybe Nathan turned green for you in your latest test because more of the curveballs you threw with him were strikes and not balls? Just a thought.

For what it's worth I also tested this with xbox using default and last 2k roster's and seems to be just the same type of results as PC.

Hm I thought that not the pitch count itself had an effect but the % of thrown pitches? But I do not know, nobody of us has an indepth-look into the game-engine.

Honestly I do not remember if I threw more strikes or more balls. No idea to be honest. Didn't pay attention because I didn't know that this could have an effect.

But when it happens on Xbox, too, then this should be the final proof that it is caused by 2k's engine and not by me.

I just think that if this was intended to work this way, then it just doesn't make much sense, does it?

Like I said before, in theory this is a good system. But it has to have some sort of checks and balances system to make it work properly.

Or is there something else that we're not getting? Because I've played something like at least 80 games in franchise mode and at least as many in exhibition mode and I've never noticed this happen. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but I doubt it.

I also think that it would not make much sense if this was intended to work this way. When you can set up certain percentages then every pitch percentage should count the same, shouldn't it? Why should a FB pct of 45 work in another way than a CB pct of 45?

As far as it seems to me I can say that CBs are somehow rated stricter than other pitches regarding getting yellow or red. I do not understand why a slider with a lower pct should get back to green quicker than a CB with a higher usage pct? I do not understand this.

To be honest I did not notice this flaw before, too. And I also played a sh...load of games before getting to the roster edits. But like you I wonder if we simply didn't realize it and didn't throw enough CBs.

That also could be a reason why you noticed it with Scheppers, Lindblom and Nathan. Those three are all RPs and besides closers (Nathan being one) the most RPs are only used against batters that have the same batting side like the pitchers throwing arm. That means a right handed RP is mainly used against right handed batters. But the CB is mostly used against opposite batting batters. So RPs do not use the CB too often. Maybe that is why we didn't really see the issue before?

But I definately would call it a flaw. This is too strange to be meant intended.

1. Oh, for me I had only problems with Darvish, but now to think about it, the curve does get yellow faster than the rest... But I always thought it was a game mechanic

2. Woops lol, forgot Dravish played his first year last year

1. Did you have the problems with Darvish using my roster or only using the original 2k roster? Did the pitches stay red all the time or get back to yellow/green?

2. No problem. ;)

[MercyLord]

Was wondering about the Managers are they going to be updated ? is it possible to update them ? if so i don't mind doing it myself if someone can show me the way im during Franchise mode so if there is a way cool thanks ! two teams im playing with Baltimore 3-2 and my Cubs 1-4 ... peace

[fatcowxlive]

What the heck is going on...I don't know why but I simply thought of testing my roster another time. I took Nathan one more time.

First 4 pitches were all CBs, CB got yellow. Then I threw a FB, CB stayed yellow. Then I threw another CB and CB turned red (5 of 6 pitches were CBs). Then I did not throw any more CBs. After pitch 22 the CB turned yellow and after pitch 29 it turned even green.

Why is it working now but wasn't working before? This thing gets stranger and stranger...

In a test scenario before I had thrown over 30 pitches and the CB was still red. Why does it yellow at 22 and green at 29 now?

Maybe I upset the apple cart and I was hysterical too early and all is working (maybe a little bit sloppy). Tomorrow I gonna finish the Mariners franchise and release the next beta.

I just tested your rosters and used Adam Wainright, 3 straight curves and its yellow (makes sense) then I throw one cutter and the curve goes back to normal (no colour). I tried Nathan too, 3 straight curves for yellow, and then one more for red. 2 pitches later it was yellow and 18 more pitches and it went back to normal. I don't know if this helps though :/

Do you think tendency has something to do with this? I mean its more common for Wainright to throw his curve (25%) than it is for Nathan (15%)...

1. Did you have the problems with Darvish using my roster or only using the original 2k roster? Did the pitches stay red all the time or get back to yellow/green?

2. No problem.

I never tested Darvish yet on your roster, but I had problems with 2K's original one. All of the called up pitchers that were created by 2K had that bug that every pitch would turn yellow and red.

Edit: I tried Darvish, not the same issue but it took ages for his pitches to come back from yellow level. It took 3 curves to go yellow and one more to be red. 19 pitches later it goes to yellow and then 11 more to go back to normal. His tendency is 15% just like Nathan's, so I guess that takes the whole tendency theory out of the picture

[sask3m]

Need to make someone with 100% curves and nothing else and see how fast he goes yellow/red.

[sabugo]

Could it be that 2KSports figured that after you throw one CB in real life the hitter gets the hang of it faster than if it was a FB, and then used that in the game??

I don't think this is your fault by any means, I'm just curious if there is a solution for it, or how could we work around it. Let's just sum up what we know for sure so far, which isn't much:

- CB's turn red faster and sometimes don't go back to yellow or green

- None of us ever noticed this before

What changed from when we played before to now? I'm guessing a lot of us used a lot of different rosters, and this happens with a bunch of different rosters. Could it be the sliders? (I can't figure out a reasn why that would be the case, but it's just about the only thing we haven't considered)

[sask3m]

Why can't I create a pitcher with 3 pitches? I save Nathan with curve #1 pitch 90%, fastball #2 5%, change-up #3 5%. Everything saves fine then I go in game and he has a knuckleball as well. wtf

[fatcowxlive]

Could it be that 2KSports figured that after you throw one CB in real life the hitter gets the hang of it faster than if it was a FB, and then used that in the game??

I don't think this is your fault by any means, I'm just curious if there is a solution for it, or how could we work around it. Let's just sum up what we know for sure so far, which isn't much:

- CB's turn red faster and sometimes don't go back to yellow or green

- None of us ever noticed this before

What changed from when we played before to now? I'm guessing a lot of us used a lot of different rosters, and this happens with a bunch of different rosters. Could it be the sliders? (I can't figure out a reasn why that would be the case, but it's just about the only thing we haven't considered)

I've noticed this before. I just got better at pitch selection and I keep curve balls as my out pitch or a suprise pitch. In a 90 pitch outing, I throw like 12 curves. Think about it, how many homers have been hit because people sit on the breaking ball? Or how many times on average do you see a curve getting thrown? I think 2K made this on purpose and I think its correct. In real life if you have Bautista at the plate and you throw two straight curves, and then throw a third one, if its near the zone its gone.

[sabugo]

I've noticed this before. I just got better at pitch selection and I keep curve balls as my out pitch or a suprise pitch. In a 90 pitch outing, I throw like 12 curves. Think about it, how many homers have been hit because people sit on the breaking ball? Or how many times on average do you see a curve getting thrown? I think 2K made this on purpose and I think its correct. In real life if you have Bautista at the plate and you throw two straight curves, and then throw a third one, if its near the zone its gone.

But that is if you throw like 3 CB's in a row. The problem is that even if you throw something else in between, the CB isn't going back to green. Even if you throw 10 other different pitches in between.

The system is designed to work in that way, IMO. Throw too many of one pitch, or too many in a row, and the hitter will sit on them, just like in real-life. But you can't really sit on something if there are 10 pitches in between, or am I wrong?

Different pitchers throw more or less curves, depending on their style and it's effectiveness. For example, Joba Chamberlain throwing a curve is a totally different thing from someone who can actually pitch a curve. And the hitter's ability to pick up on it would also be different.

That's how I perceived the system up until now.

[fatcowxlive]

But that is if you throw like 3 CB's in a row. The problem is that even if you throw something else in between, the CB isn't going back to green. Even if you throw 10 other different pitches in between.

The system is designed to work in that way, IMO. Throw too many of one pitch, or too many in a row, and the hitter will sit on them, just like in real-life. But you can't really sit on something if there are 10 pitches in between, or am I wrong?

Different pitchers throw more or less curves, depending on their style and it's effectiveness. For example, Joba Chamberlain throwing a curve is a totally different thing from someone who can actually pitch a curve. And the hitter's ability to pick up on it would also be different.

That's how I perceived the system up until now.

Oh yeah, for sure. I think it is 2K's work, I mean in all 3 of my outings, I managed to get the curve from red 18 or more pitches later.... in real life if you throw even 6 straight fast balls they're not sitting on breaking ball anymore. I think its a flaw

[sask3m]

Ok it must have something to do with tendency they throw the curve and the overall quality it has.

I was trying to think of a pitcher that throws a fair amount of curves other than Wainwright and the only one I could think of was Zito.

Ok his curve has decent quality, speed 75 movement 75 control 77 (last 2k official here). I threw 3 curves to start the game = yellow then on the 4th it turned red, I then threw 1 fastball and it turned back to green (didn't even go back to yellow) followed that up with 2more curves = yellow 1 more curve = red. I stayed away from the curve after that and it turned back to yellow after a few pitches but wasn't going back to green any time soon.

So overall I felt that was a fair result from throwing 7 curves and only 1 fastball.

[fatcowxlive]

Ok it must have something to do with tendency they throw the curve and the overall quality it has.

I was trying to think of a pitcher that throws a fair amount of curves other than Wainwright and the only one I could think of was Zito.

Ok his curve has decent quality, speed 75 movement 75 control 77 (last 2k official here). I threw 3 curves to start the game = yellow then on the 4th it turned red, I then threw 1 fastball and it turned back to green (didn't even go back to yellow) followed that up with 2more curves = yellow 1 more curve = red. I stayed away from the curve after that and it turned back to yellow after a few pitches but wasn't going back to green any time soon.

So overall I felt that was a fair result from throwing 7 curves and only 1 fastball.

Same with me! Wainright and Zito both returned quickly to normal... It has to do with the quality and tendency as you said

[sask3m]

Just the way the game was made and I can deal with it. Also just because the curve is red doesn't mean you can't throw it, just don't lay it over the middle of the plate when it's red though.

Carry on Wudl. :D

[sabugo]

I have noticed that if you are throwing a bunch of breaking balls and the icons start turning yellow and then red, you can 'break-up' that by throwing a fastball. The same works if you're throwing too many fastballs and the icon is turning red, you can throw a breaking ball and it goes back to green.

The thing is, that isn't working the same way it was supposed to with relievers, or in short samples.

Just the way the game was made and I can deal with it. Also just because the curve is red doesn't mean you can't throw it, just don't lay it over the middle of the plate when it's red though.

Carry on Wudl.

X2, though when the icons turn red, the CPU's hit rate increases by a lot.

[DonkeyJote]

I don't think it's just the curve. In my last outing with Kimbrel, who has two pitches, fastball and slurve, my slurve turned yellow, and never turned back. At one point, my fastball was red and my slurve was yellow. How does that work?