Wudl's Rating Edited Roster (Beta)

[profit89]

Keep up the great work wudl.

Whenever you are ready. No pressure.

[wudl83]

Keep up the great work wudl.

Whenever you are ready. No pressure.

I realized that according to Brooks Baseball some players have a wider pitch repertoire than shown on Fangraphs, which I did use as a primary resource. I think I will try to balance things out at least for some of the top pitchers. So e.g. Matt Harvey and Shelby Miller will have more options (and maybe a boost in OVR, too, although this is not my goal since I don't care about really).

[wudl83]

A small update from the front.

I have updated all hitters of the 25-man rosters, 7-8 teams lack pitchers updates but I think I can get them in within a few days.

Then I will switch to the minor leagues.

Game really plays great now as I have altered the sliders a little bit, too. Game scores even vary more than before.

My last 2 games were:

Giants (Cain) @ Pirates (Morton) 0-1 (3-5 hits)

Blue Jays (Rogers) @ Rangers (Darvish) 9-7 (14-13 hits) (I was in front 6-1 and brought in Frasor for relieve in the 7th and he surrendered 4 hits and 4 runs before I even could get an out) (and it was the same Jays lineup I held to 6 hits the day before with Griffin of the As)

I also found a register in the roster file that allows us now to pitch 2-seamers faster than the prescripted 96 mph. Feels good to tally up 2-seamers up to 98 or 99 mph with Strasburg and Scheppers.

[profit89]

Wudl,

You will be including some of the Improved + New CyberFaces that have been released ?

[wudl83]

of course, as always.

[haydenlovewsc]

Wudl, when u'll release your new roster .... ?? i can't wait to play chien ming wang on the blue jays ... =) your work are amazing ..

[nived]

Grabbed this the other day really nice work.

[LouisvilleLipp]

Can't wait for your latest release. This game is light years better because of your roster and slider improvements.

[wudl83]

Thanks.

Small piece of information: I am now done with all 25-man rosters. I have already completed the whole Giants and Yankees system, too. I can not give you a date for the final release but I keep on working.

[dishnet34]

Did you get the recent Valverde DFA'ing for the Tigers, and the corresponding moves?

[wudl83]

Strange question to be honest - I even did try to track minor league transactions in my former updates.

So yes, the final roster will be up to date. Why shouldn't I do transactions?

[dishnet34]

Well it did just happen, Wudl, so I understand the confusion with the question. No worries.

[wudl83]

Wasn't meant as an offense by me, I only wasn't expecting such a question :-)

[profit89]

Thanks.

Small piece of information: I am now done with all 25-man rosters. I have already completed the whole Giants and Yankees system, too. I can not give you a date for the final release but I keep on working.

Looking forward to it !

[LouisvilleLipp]

How close are you to releasing the new roster Wudl?

[DonSPa]

trade season is coming up soon lolol,rosters is a hard thing to keep up with,i tip my hat to wudl for having the patience to keep up,anyone who has never done rosters dont realize the task,because days of work can change at a moments notice.I did rosters 1 year and ill never do them again lol.1 injury,trade and release changes the whole orginization and if its a trade its even worse because more than 1 org is involved,wudl good be close to being done then suddenly a bunch of injuries happen and there goes the process all over again

[LouisvilleLipp]

Yeah DonSpa, I agree. Between trying to keep up with whose getting sent down to AAA, whose coming up from AAA, whose on the DL, whose getting DFA'd, it's tough to keep up with this daily. Wudl does a great job doing this time-consuming task.

[wudl83]

Two things guys.

First, I am still working, but got very, very busy lately.

Second, I realized some strange things regarding game mechanics and therefore had to change a shitload of ratings. That means extra work.

[dishnet34]

Two things guys.

First, I am still working, but got very, very busy lately.

Second, I realized some strange things regarding game mechanics and therefore had to change a shitload of ratings. That means extra work.

Well, darn! That sucks. Take as much time as you need to work those things out. You can do it!

[wudl83]

The problem is how 2k calculates the CPU batting in regards to a pitcher's ratings. I did a ton of tests.

Pitch ratings (control/movement) are way off compared to reality thanks to their system.

You can not produce "real" pitches with how they have coded it unless you sacrifice gameplay.

There are tons of guys in the real MLB that have good control and get hitters out with that although they have pretty bad movement. And there are tons of guys in the real MLB that have bad control and get hitters out with that because they have pretty good movement. I tried to reproduce that but it doesn't work. Too bad I didn't find out it too early.

If you have a pitch with high control and low movement it is as bad as a pitch that has mediocre control and mediocre movement.

All that counts is the overall rating of a pitch and the contact ratings of a pitcher when pitching.

Was pretty sad when I found out that 2k12 is coded like this but that's how it works. I also found out that all the tendency ratings do NOT matter for gameplay. They only matter for simulation. For gameplay they are completely useless.

When you pitch with a guy who has BB-tendency rated 100, K-tendency rated 100 and GB-tendency rated 100, you won't strike out more guys like a pitcher that has a 25 rating in K-tendency, you will not walk more guys than a pitcher that has a 25 rating in BB-tendency and you won't induce more groundballs than a pitcher with a 25 rated GB-tendency.

Also the doubles, triples and homerun ratings do not really influence gameplay. All that matters for a pitcher is the overall pitch rating (calculated by control, movement and speed of a pitch) and his contact ratings. The higher those ratings, the less prone he is to give up hits. And depending on the hitters ratings this hit can be more likely be a single, a double, a triple or a homerun. But it has nothing to do with the pitcher's ratings for 2B/3B/HR.

All the rest is completely irrelevant for gameplay.

I also found out that the pitch animations do not change no matter how high or low the movement rating is. You can set up a pitcher with a 12-6 CB that has 25 control and 25 movement and the pitch will break the same ingame as a 12-6 CB that has 99 control and 99 movement. The only difference is that you can not control the first pitch and can't get anyone out with it. But regarding animations they are both the same.

Didn't expect this to be honest. There are guys in real MLB that have pitches that have big breaks and guys that have little breaks in their breaking balls. You won't see a difference ingame regarding the animation. You will only see a difference in the aspect of a hitter being able to hit it or not.

I reset the roster to default to look up how 2k12 was set up initially and I saw that every pitcher's pitch had nearly the same movement and control. Pretty unrealistic but that's it. When you look at a pitcher who got a 4 seamer control of 90, you can bet that his movement was in the range of 85-95. That has nothing to do with a realistic approach but we have to sacrifies it.

Also, when you look at your roster ingame, where you can see the marked player in the upper half and in the lower half you see the roster, you see ratings for "Overall", "Control", "Stamina" and "Composure" for the marked pitcher. I always wondered why some guys who got low control ratings for their pitches by me, had way higher control ratings in this screen.

Now I found the answer. The term "control" is simply WRONG and MISLEADING. It should be labeled "pitching repertoire" or "pitches".

Pitches are calculated in different ways. For a FB speed is very important, but it is less important for a CB for example. Also the importance of control and movement vary for the calculation of a pitch rating. Now when you got a pitcher that is a fireballer and can dial his FB up to 100 mph, he even may have not much control, but the FB rating will be the same like that of a player that only can throw his FB for maybe 90 mph, although he has way better control than the fireballer.

Since the rating of the pitches maybe the same in the end, both pitchers get the same "control" rating in the overview screen.

That is all big time BS if you ask me...

[profit89]

The problem is how 2k calculates the CPU batting in regards to a pitcher's ratings. I did a ton of tests.

Pitch ratings (control/movement) are way off compared to reality thanks to their system.

You can not produce "real" pitches with how they have coded it unless you sacrifice gameplay.

There are tons of guys in the real MLB that have good control and get hitters out with that although they have pretty bad movement. And there are tons of guys in the real MLB that have bad control and get hitters out with that because they have pretty good movement. I tried to reproduce that but it doesn't work. Too bad I didn't find out it too early.

If you have a pitch with high control and low movement it is as bad as a pitch that has mediocre control and mediocre movement.

All that counts is the overall rating of a pitch and the contact ratings of a pitcher when pitching.

Was pretty sad when I found out that 2k12 is coded like this but that's how it works. I also found out that all the tendency ratings do NOT matter for gameplay. They only matter for simulation. For gameplay they are completely useless.

When you pitch with a guy who has BB-tendency rated 100, K-tendency rated 100 and GB-tendency rated 100, you won't strike out more guys like a pitcher that has a 25 rating in K-tendency, you will not walk more guys than a pitcher that has a 25 rating in BB-tendency and you won't induce more groundballs than a pitcher with a 25 rated GB-tendency.

Also the doubles, triples and homerun ratings do not really influence gameplay. All that matters for a pitcher is the overall pitch rating (calculated by control, movement and speed of a pitch) and his contact ratings. The higher those ratings, the less prone he is to give up hits. And depending on the hitters ratings this hit can be more likely be a single, a double, a triple or a homerun. But it has nothing to do with the pitcher's ratings for 2B/3B/HR.

All the rest is completely irrelevant for gameplay.

I also found out that the pitch animations do not change no matter how high or low the movement rating is. You can set up a pitcher with a 12-6 CB that has 25 control and 25 movement and the pitch will break the same ingame as a 12-6 CB that has 99 control and 99 movement. The only difference is that you can not control the first pitch and can't get anyone out with it. But regarding animations they are both the same.

Didn't expect this to be honest. There are guys in real MLB that have pitches that have big breaks and guys that have little breaks in their breaking balls. You won't see a difference ingame regarding the animation. You will only see a difference in the aspect of a hitter being able to hit it or not.

I reset the roster to default to look up how 2k12 was set up initially and I saw that every pitcher's pitch had nearly the same movement and control. Pretty unrealistic but that's it. When you look at a pitcher who got a 4 seamer control of 90, you can bet that his movement was in the range of 85-95. That has nothing to do with a realistic approach but we have to sacrifies it.

Also, when you look at your roster ingame, where you can see the marked player in the upper half and in the lower half you see the roster, you see ratings for "Overall", "Control", "Stamina" and "Composure" for the marked pitcher. I always wondered why some guys who got low control ratings for their pitches by me, had way higher control ratings in this screen.

Now I found the answer. The term "control" is simply WRONG and MISLEADING. It should be labeled "pitching repertoire" or "pitches".

Pitches are calculated in different ways. For a FB speed is very important, but it is less important for a CB for example. Also the importance of control and movement vary for the calculation of a pitch rating. Now when you got a pitcher that is a fireballer and can dial his FB up to 100 mph, he even may have not much control, but the FB rating will be the same like that of a player that only can throw his FB for maybe 90 mph, although he has way better control than the fireballer.

Since the rating of the pitches maybe the same in the end, both pitchers get the same "control" rating in the overview screen.

That is all big time BS if you ask me...

That might be because the pitch break influence slider is set to, say, 50.

If you set the pitch break influence to 0 or 100 (I think 0), all of a sudden the individuality in pitch break infleunce shows up and ratings do matter.

An idea.

[wudl83]

Tried it out before, movement doesn't matter visually. As a rating it does matter, but the animations don't change. Tested it with 40, 50, 60 and even 100, no difference. Don't know why they did this.

Best example is to give RA Dickey's knuckler 99 movement and 25 movement. Try it out and you will see that the 99 movement knuckler dances like the 25 movement knuckler.

I recently found an older developer's diary in which they told proudly that they had completely revamped the pitching system. They were so proud that they implemented pitch break animations related to their location (e.g. a high CB will have little break, a low CB at the bottom of the zone will have big break; a slider inside will have little break, a slider outside will have big break) but they seem to have forgotten to differentiate between pitchers.

[profit89]

That sucks. Individuality in abilties is so important in sports gaming. The more individuality the better.

[haydenlovewsc]

sad case .....

[wudl83]

Strange thing is I hadn't realized this problem before.

I remember wondering that some pitches broke in a strange way compared to the movement rating, but I didn't probe the causes of it.

Well, no other chance than simply dealing with it and accepting the things as they are.

The separation must come from the ratings itself, at least the ratings do matter. Sad that animations don't separate.