Baseup! Rosters 2014 ~ (Phase 4)

[Gordo]

I can only answer for the camera that I use via the Sim Pack I put together a while ago: '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

I've put the latest sliders and updated datafile at that location.

[mesavysek]

Hi, i have only MVP13 mod installed on clean install of MVP05. Downloaded your roster (Phase 4) and played Season as RedSox. 30th april freezes and won't let me past this date. I then started a new season with injuries and suspensions OFF and simmed season. It freezes on multiple tries somewhere near the end of May (14th, 28th, 30th...) I don't know what to do... I really like playing season mode but i've hit the bump... can you help me?

[Gordo]

Sorry, this is not the support thread and don't want to bog it down with such.

Did you edit any players once the season started? I'll attempt to sim a season with those rosters with BOS, then PM you.

[Gordo]

I'll be editing catcher's throwing attributes. Here's the basic formula I use (considering SB %):

accuracy

500’s – 14

600’s – 13

700’s - 12

800’s – 10

900’s - 8

Strength

500’s – 600’s – 15

700 – 800 – 13

900 - 12

JBricks: you'll be happy to know that Joseph will be a 15 throw strength and 14 accuracy.... the highest I go. Attached are the stats (sorted by teams)

Catchers SBPCT 2014.rar

[Gordo]

1.Hundley is the only player I see that I feel is overrated... perhaps Jimenez as well; Countless players are seemingly underrated... those above, as well as Jones.

2. I know the ranks are just ranks, but to essentially be a Top 3 team in the league... it just didn't jive.

3. I expected that the fastball velocities would be closer to the maximum

4. I'm willing to be more helpful if possible, but I feel like I'm missing some important knowledge.

1. Looking back over what your wrote.....you didn't explain "countless".... in the entire roster? On the Orioles?

2. The bottom line is that no matter what a team ends up getting ranked, you get to make them a top 3 by playing with them.

3. I suppose that in addition to using Pitch f/x site I could also use Fangraphs, but then I would need to look on TWO sites to figure one player as Fangraphs doesn't give the ball trajectory and the game doesn't necessarily mimic the ranges of a pitch's particular speed anyway.

4. PM me if you really meant that.

[JBricks]

When I referred to players being underrated/overrated, I was really only looking at the Orioles. I realized I was taking a somewhat poor approach... based on the lowly rank for the team and based on the overall standing of the players when sorted amongst themselves... but then I realized some (what I believe) are some truly underrated characteristics...

Like I stated earlier, I think Hundley is the only real one that sticks out as overrated.. in quite a few areas. I was quite amazed to see his throw strength and accuracy at 99/90. Jones loses his mind in the field sometimes, but a 20 is very low.. as is probably a 65 for range.

Britton's fastball seems low. That is a shutdown pitch as evidence by his breakout season.

We already talked about velocities and Joseph's arm.

Schoop's fielding is very low.

[Gordo]

Couple of things -----

I had to come up with a quick way to determine various fielding attributes, which are not easy to find. I mean how do you determine the relative throwing strength and/or accuracy of a player? So I developed the attached table based on some information at Fangraphs. Even so, when you read about these derived formulas, there are flaws pointed out with each of them. Sort of like when you only take into account a pitcher's ERA. (As far as catchers I already spoke to that above and indicated that I updated them).

I also have various limits for certain attributes, as the game can translate (especially) an upper range in an overexaggerated way. So, for example, an MLB infielder's range I have between 2 and 10, not 0 and 15 (in MVPedit) --- sorry, but I don't ultimately know how the game reads this and presents it. Having said that, I think I accidentally moved Jones' too low, as OF's should be between 5 and 15. So I'll have to adjust that. As far as Schoop, he's a rookie and I didn't do his fielding as there was no data. Using the fielding chart I developed (attached), here's what he will be on next release:

Throw accuracy: 12

Throw strength (via 2K or MLB The Show): 12/15

IF Range (10 max): 5

Fielding: 11

Now you're going to look at that and say his range is low. But that's actually average for the max range. It's based on a rating scale, not an impression. If you'd like to work on the defensive ratings according to this chart, let me know. Here's the page I used for Schoop, by the way:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=c,6,-1,28,-1,31,-1,39&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=2&rost=1&age=0&filter=&players=0

Britton has an average FB speed of 94, which means I set it at 92 so that you could possibly reach 95 or 96 in game. If you think it should be even faster, then you need to adjust it. According to Pitch f/x, he throws his 2FB significantly more and is the faster and better pitch. 95 avg, but you could reach 97 in game with it set in the editor at 93.

Hundley was adjusted down, but in accordance with the chart posted above. You keep saying he's overrated in other areas, but haven't mentioned anything else.

MVP Defensive Ability Scaling.rar

[JBricks]

Cool... glad I can be of some assistance. Very experienced w/ the Orioles and maybe even more experienced w/ rating systems, data analysis etc.

I've assisted and authored some very complex sports-related rating systems in the past and value objectivity and definitely understand the need to rely on statistics to come up with a solid base.... but sometimes, subjectivity can do wonders.

[Gordo]

Well, you have to understand that I can't afford to be subjective because I can't watch every player numerous times and there has never been enough fair-minded people here to give feedback that would cover all the teams.

But you do have me intrigued to re-rate at least the starters / prominent players for the MLB teams. Would probably only take a couple of days. (Btw, pitchers' fielding and range stay low because the game seems to grant them special powers when on the mound to snag balls up the middle .... as well as their pickoff abilities).

[JBricks]

As for Hundley, I need to re-familiarize myself with the various offensive ratings used in the game to accurately answer your question. I mean there is the arm strength/accuracy thing... though, seeing as he is in the top 6 overall or so on the team just isn't right... rank problems or no rank problems.

I'm a bit skeptical of the PITCH/FX data for average speeds.

I think you always have to err toward the high side. I suspect at times, some off speed pitches may get tossed in and mis-categorized.

I can tell you I've watched Britton all year. The 90.8 minimum FT that Fangraphs has is unfathomable. I've not once seen him below 94. If you eliminate the bottom 5% and top 5%, you assuredly will end up with a higher average.

Edited September 13, 2014 by JBricks

[Gordo]

I don't think we're going to come to a comparable end in this discussion. You want to utilize subjectivity, which I can't do. There are clearly rank problems with the game, but you want to ignore that there are. You have problems with both FanGraphs and Pitch f/x. So what is one to do? I think in grand scheme of things you're not liking that the Orioles aren' t ranked higher overall. Well, I think your only solution is to re-rank them to your liking.

By the way, I asked probably 3x what the problems are with Hundley and you still haven't answered.

Moving along......

[Yankee4Life]

JBricks: If you do not like daflyboys' rosters you can create a roster set all by yourself which will be more to your liking. His rosters are fine the way they are.

[JBricks]

I'm not sure why I'm being taken so negatively?

I'm just trying to offer helpful criticism from a fresh viewpoint... from someone with years of relevant experience who gets paid to construct rating systems for professional and amateur leagues (not baseball). I've already understood the need to be objective and to use past data to set a baseline. I know lucid thoughts, even with generalizations can improve matters. However, what I am trying to inject, is how unbiased subjectivity can help fill gaps and find outliers. I may only be familiar with one team, but one is greater than zero.

I've mentioned Hundley and I've mentioned that I'm still re-familiarizing myself at the micro-level w/ regards to the offensive ratings in the game. I re-installed MVP05 for the first time in nearly a decade because I was hard-up for a PC baseball game. If you make Coca Cola and someone who has been rating sodas for a decade doesn't have a deep understanding about the chemical characteristics of what makes it bitter, are you going to disregard their opinion because they can't communicate on your level?

You've already agreed with me that a few things need tweaked and you are tweaking them.. so obviously I've been of some help. Am I coming off as egotistical or condescending?

If not welcome, I will back out and apologize.

Edited September 13, 2014 by JBricks

[Gordo]

Not egotistic or condescending, and I acknowledged that I made a mistake with Jones' fielding.....things slip by when looking at tons of numbers over hundreds of hours over time. So let's come at it one more direction. You say you do this for a living or at least for compensation. That's well and good. So propose a viable system with the resources where the game can be adjusted to attempt mimicking the real thing. I've given the ways and methods that I have developed coming at it (so that I can do things as quickly and efficiently as possible), now you need to give yours.

And I don't get paid for this.

(by the way, putting "gets paid" in bold was sort of condescending, well as you can convey that on a website)

[JBricks]

Not egotistic or condescending, and I acknowledged that I made a mistake with Jones' fielding.....things slip by when looking at tons of numbers over hundreds of hours over time. So let's come at it one more direction. You say you do this for a living or at least for compensation. That's well and good. So propose a viable system with the resources where the game can be adjusted to attempt mimicking the real thing. I've given the ways and methods that I have developed coming at it (so that I can do things as quickly and efficiently as possible), now you need to give yours.

And I don't get paid for this.

(by the way, putting "gets paid" in bold was sort of condescending, well as you can convey that on a website)

Sorry, I was trying to emphasize the fact that I wasn't some schmoe coming in to give you a hard time.

With baseball, I think really.. only batters, catchers' throwing and pitchers' velocities are the only things that can be easily computed based on statistics. If you've got K rates per pitch type, that would certainly help with the quality of said pitches.. but this is probably another area where subjectivity is needed.

Subjectivity is certainly needed for fielding at the non-catcher position... I think you could get away with doing a computation for pitchers, because who really cares?

If you produced some formulas/equations you are using to pre-fill data, I would love to look at them.

Edited September 13, 2014 by JBricks

[Gordo]

I simply go by ERA for control and you know the site I use for speed and pitch type. I think since you are someone who delves into this on a regular basis that you should provide the formulas/equations and also explain to us how the use of subjectivity will be represented.

[Gordo]

I've since re-ranked the prominent (qualified) MLB players for defensive range, throwing accuracy and fielding for half the teams and ran a compatibility test. Interesting playoff picture outcome:

[JBricks]

Looks good.

Brewers are interesting... did they win the wildcard to get in?

Edited September 14, 2014 by JBricks

[ENCBase13]

I've since re-ranked the prominent (qualified) MLB players for defensive range, throwing accuracy and fielding for half the teams and ran a compatibility test. Interesting playoff picture outcome:

Saaaaweeeeeet!

[Gordo]

Looks good.

Brewers are interesting... did they win the wildcard to get in?

Was only half-way through and they weren't fixed as of then. But did a test and figured what the hell.

Finished all of the teams for defensive updates and actually all of the tweaks I'm going to do for this year.

[ENCBase13]

Well, that test shows nothing but how damn awesome those tweaks you made were! Dude, look @ how accurate that playoff picture looks! As far as the Brewers they did beat the Reds.

[Gordo]

Well, keep in mind the rosters have season ending injured players inserted back in, like Prince Fielder and CC Sabathia, so it's not a perfect representation. This could also have an effect on the rankings as well. But, when simming to test roster stability, I've found a variety of playoff results; teams that when you look at the ratings, you would think they would make the playoffs, like Oakland and Cleveland, but they do. So it's in part resulting in chances for teams that you do or do not control to make the post-season.

[JBricks]

Here's a bit of social subjectivity that will probably help in fielding figures... It has its obvious downfalls, but I think it may be helpful if consumed properly:

http://tangotiger.net/scout/

A very defined fielding survey that is probably only going to track fans familiar with the teams/players included. Naturally, a bit of common sense is going to be required to formulate a translation table...I think players are only singled out for alteration if the translated figures vary from the roster figures by a certain percentage...

Since we've discussed the Os, we can take a look at their page:

http://tangotiger.net/scout/index4.php?teamid=110&team=Baltimore%20Orioles

We've got a pretty good spread and usage of 0-100. These are actually really good. I feel Joseph is a rated a bit low and Davis's attributes, especially his arm, are quite underrated here... Otherwise, decent as a second set of eyes, league wide.

Can the current fielding ratings you have be dumped to a file?

Edited September 17, 2014 by JBricks

[Gordo]

I think I'll stick with what I have. Not even sure if I'm doing rosters next year. Just wanted to get a set(s) out for people to use during the off-season as well. People are always welcome to make adjustments for their teams as need be. I doubt I would do all of that research just for this, unless I was paid. Maybe EA Sports will hire me in a few years....

If you're talking about Davis' batting attributes, keep in mind that this is a compilation of attributes from the past few years, barring if you're a 1-3 year player. Davis actually took a dive this year and deservedly so. The dude was batting under .200 for a while and his splits are significant. Batting contact/power are not just based on this year. If so, he would be much, much lower. For example, for contact alone, he would have a 48 contact v R and 45 v L.

I don't know how to export information from MVPedit, sorry.

[JBricks]

I hope you do consider releasing one last roster.

I recently went through the Os pitchers and Fangraphs to determine pitch types, movement, velocities, etc. I think you did a pretty fine job, especially on the small things like movement type. Only a few misses IMO.

After my alterations, The Os somehow end up ranked 1st in pitching. Not my intention.. I was shooting for borderline Top 5. Though, my alterations allow to hit the max velocity observed by maxing out the meter.

Probably a bit of an overshoot, but if you consider this a "now" roster, the Orioles are tied with the Mariners w/ the lowest ERA after the break... and I think the Orioles win the tie for having more of a hitters park.

In my roster, they are 1st in pitching, 1st in fielding, dead last in running and something like 12th in hitting.. an overall rank of 7th.

Anyway, an interesting experiment at the very least. Would probably take me 30-45 mins at this point to mow down pitchers for one team... definitely takes time.