Angel Stadium - The Protest Version...Looking for feedback

[ChrisCreamer]

It's because the Angels DON'T PLAY IN LOS FREAKING ANGELES. Yes he did lower prices and get good players, but now he's being greedy and changing the name just to make more money. They won a championship under Anaheim, and that was only 3 years ago.

I believe he said he was going to use the extra money to make the ballclub even better, and if changing the name to a city up the street (and the original name of the franchise) = more money to spend on great players & cheaper prices at the ballpark I would be a happy fan.

There were rumours that the Toronto Blue Jays would be the Toronto Jays for 2004, I thought it was a silly name change but I still would've supported the team. Look at my boys in blue, I mean graphite now, absolutely no ties to the team I grew up supporting -- but I still love 'em.

Then again, maybe that's just me.

[donjn]

Exactly. He has spent, spent and lost money. All because he wants to win. It's a marketing move and has nothing to do with greed. How can anyone call him greedy? He has bent over backwards to take a loss so the team can get better and fans pay less at games.

How about the New Jersey Giants and Jets? Anaheim Rams? People use big city names all the time.

[Sidewinder]

Yeah, there is not much you can do really when it comes to these corporate name change deals. As long as Moreno doesnt move the club and keeps doing his best to improve it, which it appears he has, the name change doesnt really bother me that much. The geeky and awkward length of it is the issue for me. I guess it's all about what you get used to. After growing up with the California Angels, the initial name change to Anaheim sounded weird at first to me also, but it's just a name, so what the heck.

Here is one for you.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

As one gets older, that thought can really have an effect on one's peace of mind.

Can't wait to play in HaloFan's Angel stadium for 2K5!

[HaloFan]

Exactly. He has spent, spent and lost money. All because he wants to win. It's a marketing move and has nothing to do with greed. How can anyone call him greedy? He has bent over backwards to take a loss so the team can get better and fans pay less at games.

How about the New Jersey Giants and Jets? Anaheim Rams? People use big city names all the time.

Ahhhhh I've been waiting for this...

First off, you've obviously been maniuplated by the media, so allow me to give you some facts.

1)Moreno lowered Beer Prices. I can't deny that fact. But guess what, at the same time, prices for soda, food, souviners, and tickets have INCREASED. What a great way to save people money! See, none of that gets covered by the media because he lowered the price of beer first.

2) His argument is that the name change is going to increase broadcast revenue. The truth is it can't! Moreno has already lost the TV station the Angels are on for 2006 to the Dodgers because he wasn't willing to take the deal they offered, so they went for the Dodgers instead. Why were the Dodgers so eager to snap up the deal? Because that station (KCAL 9) is the only non-network station. It's the ONLY station in the area that can broadcast enough games to make a decent deal. You think network affiliates are going to bump their network programming to show baseball?

The Dodgers were on KTLA 5, then they went to the WB and the Dodgers moved to KCOP 13. KCOP 13 is a UPN affiliate, and would only show weekend games, because they wouldn't bump their network shows for the Dodgers. Do you really think they would for the Angels? Please.

He wants more money, but he can't get it! Not only is the name an insult, it's completely worthless. The name is supposed to make advertisters pay more, but guess who they pay: not the team, the TV station. Now, if you know that a team has nowhere else to go, and cannot possibly get a better deal than the one you offer them, would you just offer more money because you're getting more? Oh here, take more money, even though I know you can't get it anywhere else.

3) Anaheim is NOT wasting tax payers money here. The city is going to lose HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars if the name change sticks. My city, my home will be destroyed by this decision because of all the revenue it loses from its name no longer being included on every news broadcast across the country on a daily basis. Beyond that, the money for the lawsuit is coming not from the tax payers, but from the Sports and Recreation fund, which comes from the moeny they make from the stadium.

The city gave up a great deal of money in exchange for having Anaheim put on the team. The money they get from the stadium now is chump change compared to what they got from the stadium when they ran it. Why were they willing to give that up? Because the Anaheim name being put on the team assured them or building the Anaheim brand. It also gave pride to the city, having a team that represented them. Everywhere across the country, people would either hear or see the Anaheim name hundreds of times a year.

Think about what happens when people start thinking about vacations, or where they should hold their convention next year. All of a sudden, Anaheim comes to their heads. This is what is being lost. The city earned that name, and Moreno comes in and steals it from them for pure greed.

4) Moreno is in it for the money. He knows how to manipulate the media. He knows how to manipulate most of the fans, and obviously he knows how to manipulate you since you've bought into his lies.

He knows a winning team makes money. But do you really think he'll continue to keep the payroll high if he is losing money for much longer. Look at Tom Hicks and Peter Angelos. For 2005, he CUT payroll, letting 3 of the most popular players in team history go for nothing. He RAISED ticket prices 15%, and he changed the name which he said would allow him to keep the payroll high and ticket prices low.

Which is it?

5) Where are the Rams now? Oh, that's right, they're in St. Louis because nobody in Orange Couty cared about the Rams because of their name, and nobody in LA cared about them unless they WON!. Thanks for proving my point. Wearing the LA name while playing in Orange County already failed once. It lead to a beautiful stadium being closed in, and the big A scoreboard turned into a freeway billboard.

As for the Giants and Jets, I'm willing to bet that the VAST majority of fans for those teams are located in New York. Beyond that, New York is less than 10 miles from the Meadowlands. Cross a bridge, you're in New York. Meanwhile, the vast majority of Angel fans are located OUTSIDE of Los Angeles. They live in Anaheim, Orange County, Riverside County, and a few in LA. But most aren't from LA.

Anaheim is 30 miles away from Los Angeles. It would be by far the biggest distance between two teams that are supposed to represent the same place. The Yanks and Mets are 10 miles apart, same with the White Sox and Cubs. The A's and Giants are 17 miles apart, and they get different city names. Baltimore and Washington are 40 miles apart, and get different city names.

ChrisCreamer: What's the difference between the Blue Jays and the Jays? Who cares about what the uniform looks like? Who even really cares about the nickname. The whole reason this lawsuit has come up is because the wording in the contract was to allow Disney to change the Angels part of the team name.

A team is supposed to represent the community it plays for. Back when the sport started out, teams were only known by their city. The Athletics are names as such because the original team consisted of players from the Philadelphia Athletic Club. The Mets and Yankees were NY on their caps, not M and Y. The Red Sox have a B, the Dodgers an LA.

I wouldn't have been in such an uproar if Disney had changed the nickname, because at the time it might have been a good idea for a fresh start. That's like the Bullets becoming the Wizards or the Colt .45's becoming the Astros, or even the Phillies becoming the Blue Jays for a few years in the 40's. They would still be the Anaheim ballclub. The city is what's most important about the team. Uniforms change, players come and go. Even stadiums are torn down and built back up, but the city is not supposed to change. And when it does, so should the fans. Unless you're saying the fans of Brooklyn were wrong for turning their backs on the Dodgers when they left for LA, or that the A's should still be able to call Kansas City and Philadelphia as part of their fan base.

If Moreno doesn't want Anaheim, then he should leave so we can get another team that wants to be here. But as long as he's here, that team should have Anaheim as it's city designation, and hopefully the court will agree.

[ChrisCreamer]

If you think this name change will destroy the city of Anaheim, then I'm sorry, you are the one who has been brainwashed by, well, probably your own love for your city.

Average Joe Six-Pack who wanted to see the Anaheim Angels can still see them, they play in the same stadium, with the same hotels and attractions and revenue from tax dollars nearby... and hey, speaking of attractions, isn't DisneyLand in Anaheim? I have a feeling that'll keep the city running smoothly for a while.

There's nothing wrong with loving your city -- but there's also nothing legally wrong at all with what Moreno is doing with his team. The fans will still show up at the games and in 2 years you'll forget this whole incident ever happened. California Angels? Who the heck are they?

Now to get this back on topic, does anyone have a mod out there for me to update the name of this team in MVP?

[donjn]

HaloFan:

It sounds like you have been brainwashed by the city of Anaheim.

You are assuming an awful lot in your post. Your assuming a lot in economics, your assuming that Moreno wont always spend money, etc.

Try being a Dodger fan with Frank McBankrupt as an owner and Paul Stupidesta who is brainwashing people with "Moneyball" over chemistry, and paying the same for Drew that they could have spent on Beltre.

Plus you have Vlad Guerrero the best player in baseball so shut the eff up already!!! lol

[HaloFan]

Call my logic into question if you will, but I haven't seen you try and dispute the facts.

Where did I assume he wouldn't always spend money? He cut payroll this year, that's not an assumption, that's a fact. As for economics, I assumed nothing there either. The TV stations left in the mix can't give him more money that the station that he let go to the Dodgers. This is the key to his whole argument. He has said that he needs this money or he'll have to cut payroll and raise ticket prices.

Regardless, I didn't become a fan of the team because they won a lot, I was a fan because they represented my community, they were a part of it. Now they don't. I don't care whose on the team or if they have a 200 million dollar payroll. That's L.A.'s team now, it's not mine. My team, the one I spent over 20 years rooting for and 7 years working for no longer exists.

I want a team that is proud to play for Anaheim, and proud to be a part of Orange County, not one that just happens to play here until they can get out of a contract. Maybe that's not important to you, but it is to me.

As for McCourt, at least you knew from the beginning that he was a bad owner. I'd rather have that than someone that comes in with what is nbow obvious was a smokescreen designed to make him look good while behind the scenes he was destroying the franchise little by little.

[ChrisCreamer]

Regardless, I didn't become a fan of the team because they won a lot, I was a fan because they represented my community, they were a part of it. Now they don't. I don't care whose on the team or if they have a 200 million dollar payroll. That's L.A.'s team now, it's not mine. My team, the one I spent over 20 years rooting for and 7 years working for no longer exists.

You didn't have a problem when they were the California Angels -- which is hardly representing your community -- why would you have a problem now?

I don't recall the fine people of Landover, Maryland having a problem with their community being 'destroyed' by having another cities' team playing there (two actually...)

But the great thing about this side of the world is that you have a right to feel the way you do -- so how about we celebrate that fact instead of arguing about this?

[donjn]

After signing Colon and Vlad, anything the following year would be considered a CUT in payroll. lol

And please, with potential superstars like McPherson, FRod and the awesome signing of Finley and Cabrera, complaining about losing Glaus (injury-prone plus see McPherson) and Percival sounds lame. FRod is ready to close.

I mean jeez, Salmon is close to Johnny Unitas territory and they kept him.

[donjn]

Your also forgetting the "of Anaheim" part of the name.

Your not going to be a fan anymore?

[HaloFan]

You didn't have a problem when they were the California Angels -- which is hardly representing your community -- why would you have a problem now?

I don't recall the fine people of Landover, Maryland having a problem with their community being 'destroyed' by having another cities' team playing there (two actually...)

But the great thing about this side of the world is that you have a right to feel the way you do -- so how about we celebrate that fact instead of arguing about this?

Last time I checked, I live in California, so yeah, the California Angels represented my community. I don't live in Los Angeles or ANYWHERE near it! And I wouldn't have a major problem if he had decided to change it back to California, at least that isn't a lie.

And why do people bring up other teams names? These other communities accepted these names BEFORE the team moved there. That's one thing, but that's not what's happenning here. He's trying to change it once a stadium has been built, rebuilt, etc. We never agreed to the Los Angeles Angels playing here, yet there they are.

He's stealing from the city, plain and simple.

donjn: Go to ESPN and Sportsline, they seemed to have forgotten the of Anaheim part as well. It seems to be a common problem. Fortunately, it's places like that that will strengthen the case for Anaheim, since it's obvious that the Anaheim part is being dropped. See, he has to have the of Anaheim part there, or he would have already lost the court case. But no major media source is using it. Even MLB.com has done a major insult and gone through their stats, and removed the Anaheim Angels from there like they never existed. Look at the year to year stats of players, they all say Los Angeles now. Yet, they haven't gone and removed the instances of the Montreal Expos. And I just looked at Garret Anderson's stats, and for his first 3 years it still says he played for the California Angels.

The 8 years of Anaheim have been erased. Regardless of what the name is now, it was Anaheim from 1997-2004, and the only World Championship in team history was won under that name. How is that anything but an insult? Is it now OK to revise history?

As for Salmon, he's under contract for this year, plus he's injured, so just how were they supposed to get rid of him? He'll be gone after this year too, but that'll be due to retirement.

I will ALWAYS be a fan of the Anaheim Angels, the 2002 World Champions. The 2004 AL West Division Champions. But the ANAHEIM Angels no longer exist. And if you go by MLB.com, apparantly they never existed.

[Pirate]

HaloFan - Give it up. You still have "Your" team. Try being a Browns fan. This city loved their tema way more than you and your Anahiemers love teh Angels and the our team left. I hope the Angels find a way to leave and go to Mexico City or something, then you will know what it feels like. You can still see the Angels in Anehiem.

I do believe that in order to see the Angels you have to go to Anahiem right? So when other teams come they stay in Anahiem like always?

You're not losing money.

They did not break their lease the name Anahiem remains.

You avoid the question, so i will answer it. He quit his position with the team as a elevator operator if I remember the story you told over in High Heat days.

The team was originally the LA Angels anyway, then changed to California, and then to Anahiem.

When they made teh switch to Anahiem did your city have this huge influx in cash, the opposite of your hypothesis?

[donjn]

Your not going to convence HaloFan of anything. He thinks 8 years of Angel history has been "erased".

Let me tell you WHAT AN INSULT THAT IS. HOW DARE YOU! I am a lifelong Dodger and Angel fan. I was 16 when Donnie Moore.....forget that it hurts too much. You get the point.

2002 World Champion Anaheim Angels is something that can never be "erased". I had tears in my eyes dude. What is wrong with you?

Its not about WHERE YOU live okay? I live in Los Angeles. The Angels games are on TV here. The games are on the radio. The Angels are an "LA area team" that gets covered locally by Los Angeles based newspapers, media, etc. They get as much coverage as the Dodgers, Lakers, Kings, Clippers, etc. I have always thought of them as an "LA based" team. So have all my friends. They are a local team. They are 30 minutes away. I have no problems with the name change. Not one.

Dude you have Vlad Guerrero shut up!!!!! lol

[ChrisCreamer]

Even MLB.com has done a major insult and gone through their stats, and removed the Anaheim Angels from there like they never existed. Look at the year to year stats of players, they all say Los Angeles now.

As an Internet programmer I can defend MLB here -- what they are likely using is a PHP/ASP database for their stats and any other historical data, in order for the Angels to be listed properly by city they might have to create a new team field for every name change, which could screw things up since they are basically the same franchise.

I originally had the same problem on my website, as I use a PHP/MySQL Database to store the teams, I had Anaheim Angels listed as 1961-Present, which of course wasn't true... same for teams like the Washington Wizards, etc.

I eventually solved the problem by creating a seperate team page for each name change and acted as if it was a franchise shift.

So I'm sure MLB.com isn't slapping you in the face, it was probably just easier to change ANA to LAA in the database then to add another franchise to the site.

[dm2bfree]

I would definiately use it! I have been using your mods since HH 2002.. I am really bummed on the name change as the Halo's are my team! I hope the city wins their suit, Moreno's really alienating the local fans..

[MikeB]

It's his team and he can do what he wants with it. If he moves it to a new city, Anaheim will be mad and the new city will be glad to get them. It's just like the Expos to Nationals.

To the owners, it's all about winning games, because winning games equals revenues. George Steinbrenner spends the money he does because he knows he has the fanbase to get the money back in return with plenty of profits. If he wasn't going to make a personal gain, he would have bailed a long time ago. That's why he demands the best from his players, who incidentally are among the best.

All sports are about the love of the game, but people will backstab whoever they can to get money. If I owned the Angels I would stay and not change the name, but the Angels ownership can do what they want because they own the teams and the players will just have to go where they are told.

Interesting how I only hear of this story in articles written by people from California. It seems no one else cares. Many teams come and go. It's sad when you team backstabs you, but they're going to go for the money in the end. It's the way the world works. Get used to it.

By the way, it's the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

[HaloFan]

It's his team and he can do what he wants with it. If he moves it to a new city, Anaheim will be mad and the new city will be glad to get them. It's just like the Expos to Nationals.

To the owners, it's all about winning games, because winning games equals revenues. George Steinbrenner spends the money he does because he knows he has the fanbase to get the money back in return with plenty of profits. If he wasn't going to make a personal gain, he would have bailed a long time ago. That's why he demands the best from his players, who incidentally are among the best.

All sports are about the love of the game, but people will backstab whoever they can to get money. If I owned the Angels I would stay and not change the name, but the Angels ownership can do what they want because they own the teams and the players will just have to go where they are told.

Interesting how I only hear of this story in articles written by people from California. It seems no one else cares. Many teams come and go. It's sad when you team backstabs you, but they're going to go for the money in the end. It's the way the world works. Get used to it.

By the way, it's the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

This is my point. I say let the team go at this point, because he doesn't care about us down here anyway. But that's not the case. He's still here, throwing the Los Angeles name down our throats. But are you saying that Expos fans should still be fans of the Nationals, even after the years of screwjobs by Loria and MLB, and the fact that they no longer represent Montreal?

And again, why would anyone else care about the name change outside of the area? This is about the people of Orange County getting shafted and robbed of their identity. Moreno could have stood up and lead the way for Orange County's own media market, which of course is how it should be. The area has grown enough that we deserve to have our own, protected media market.

San Diego has fewer people than Orange County, and they have a media market to themselves. It's time Orange County did too. But instead, Moreno sold out and followed the stupidity that Orange County and Los Angeles are the same thing. 3.5 million people would disagree with that.

And yes, Moreno can do what he wants, but that doesn't mean he can't be called on it when he does something that puts the entire franchise in jeopardy. You might be able to call me alot of things, but one thing that can't be denied is that I am extremely passionate about this. Is this the kind of fan you'd want to lose? The kind that would show up through thick and thin to support the team?

He did the one and only thing that would drive me away from the organization, and I'm willing to wager that he's lost others with my kind of passion. Any team can be successful when they win, the key is to be successful when you lose. And by turning his back on the most loyal fans of the franchise, he's damaged any chance of that.

donjn: Anyone that was there in 2002 will never forget what happened. The problem is that if MLB.com doesn't change their mistake, and other people follow, eventully people will say that Los Angeles won in 2002. It wasn't LA, it was Anaheim.

And this isn't about where I live. It's about where the Angels play. They play in ANAHEIM. You might be an Angel fan, but if you really think that the Angels get as much coverage in this market as the Dodgers, then you're blind.

90% of the time, the lead baseball story is about the Dodgers. Every channel, including the Angels station, leads off with the Dodgers, then covers the Angels. Same with the Kings and Ducks (well the media really doesn't care about hockey at all). And do I really have to even discuss the differences between how the Lakers and Clippers are covered? The Clippers may as well be a minor league team. The Clippers maul the Lakers last night, and all the stories I heard were about how badly the Lakers lost, not how the Clippers won.

The only time the Angels got good coverage from the LA media was in 2002. Even last year, when both teams clinched on the same day, I'm willing to bet that Finley's hit was covered before Percy's last pitch as an Angel. I can't say that for sure because I was in Oakland, leading the charge there, but my guess is that the Dodgers got the brunt of the coverage that day, and I know they continued to do so for the whole week.

This is how it is, the Dodgers are LA's team, and that's not going to change. Look at you, even you claim to be a fan of both teams. This is the problem that Angel fans had to face for years before 2002. Wishy washy fans who couldn't pick a team. It was always, yeah I like the Angels, but I'm really a Dodger fan, or a Yankee fan, or a Red Sox fan. And guess which team those people rooted for when their other team came to town...it sure wasn't the Angels.

2002 changed all that. And now it's being wiped away by this name change. The Angels will now forever be stuck behind the Dodgers, much like the Clippers will never escape the shadow of the Lakers. Maybe you, as a self professed fan of both teams don't care about that, but as someone that only cares about the Angels, maybe then you'd see the double standard that exists.

But in Orange County, there is no double standard, the Angels are the team, by a 5 to 1 margin. At least that's what it was before the name change. He's given that up, so hey, guess what, now it's even easier to be a fan of both teams up in LA, because they're both yours now. Congrats.

[Kelekin]

I don't see how 'Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim' makes sense whatsoever. It's as if Los Angeles is too big, so they have to make another team a reference to Los Angeles but not actually physically in Los Angeles. Moreno said something about thinking of the big picture by changing the name, but really, if he wanted to do any name change, it should have been back to the California Angels; a state is 'bigger' than a city.

Can't wait for your work, HaloFan. :)

[Sidewinder]

Well, being a fellow Orange Countian until I was 29(I now live in the Palm Springs area which is still considered in the LA broadcasting area even though it is 2 hours away), I followed both the Angels and the Dodgers equally, but I attended many more Angel games than Dodgers....and when they play each other, I always find myself rooting for the Angels. Perhaps, because much of my childhood was spent at The Big A dating back to the late '60s.

The Dodgers had the great heritage from Brooklyn in the '50s, and the great teams and pitching of the first half of the '60s. My Grandfather listened to Vin Sculley every game on the radio since the '50s. One of my regrets is not being old enough to have seen Sandy Koufax pitch. The Angels for whatever reason just have not had that kind of heritage unless you were really a diehard fan, which I have always been. That started in 1970, when as a 8 year old, I won a Junior Angel drawing to be guests of the Angels for a day. My family and I got to have dinner at the old Stadium Club and I got to go down on the field before the game and take pictures. I have a great one of Sandy Alomar Sr. and I with Jim Fregosi scewing around in the background. For a kid, that was the ultimate, going on the field, dugout and clubhouse while the players were there. Then we got to sit in the Pressbox during the game! And to top it all off, I got all kinds of souveniers. What an experience.

I remember many times playing Pickle with my buddies out on the grass at the Orangewood entrance waiting to be picked up by our parents. Then on Fan Appreciation Day in '74, we saw Nolan Ryan throw his 3rd No-hitter. My buddy and I started in the cheap seats(3rd deck) but worked our way down to a couple open seats right behind the Angel dugout for the last 3 innings! Awesome. By the way, my buddy with me was a future HR and K guy named Rob Deer.

Then in '77, we had season tickets on the 2nd deck right next to the press box on the left side. That was the year the Angels went all out in the Free Agent market and got Don Baylor, Joe Rudi, and Bobby Grich. But, it wasnt until '79 that they put it together for their first division title.

Summer of '79 and '80, I got to actually pitch at the Big A for Summer College League Allstar games.(Metro League) The first time was right before they enclosed the Stadium for the Rams in '79 and the next was in '80 after it was a true enclosed stadium. It really seemed different standing on the Mound the 2nd time with the whole stadium enclosed. We would play on a Sunday afternoon right after the Angels got done playing and would run into them in the tunnel. Very cool times!

So yes, I am a true Angel fan considering I also spent the bucks on Ebay to see both of the playoff games against the Yankees in 2002 and the first two games of the World Series. I have some great pics and video, including a closeup of Bonds giving a thumbs up and a big smile in front of the 1B dugout right before the start of the 2nd game during BP. Talk about false wood!!!

That second game was outstanding 11-10 if I remember right. I wish I would have went to Games 6 and 7 but couldnt stand watching the Angels lose a 4th game and remember thinking before the incredible comeback in Game 6 that I was glad I wasnt there to see them lose it and the Giants had the momentum. Another incredible game. It reminded me of the Angels-Yankees Playoff Game 3 when they overcame Ramon Ortiz's poor outing and pulled it out and then won the next day to clinch. For me it was like watching the Red Sox finally beat the Yankees last year. Having the Angels beat the Yankees was like the World Series for me with the Yankees in the middle of their current dynasty. The Angels always play the Yankees tough.

Anyways, lots of great memories, not to mention one of my best college buddies, Tim Fortugno, playing for them for a short time and throwing a shutout against the Tigers with 12 K's in his first start, back in '92 I believe.

For the last number of years, I have spent one or two weekends every year in March out at Tempe to watch the Angels in Spring Training. It's a great time.

So yes, I have an Angel Heritage and a Dodger heritage and also a Ram one too. I still follow the Rams as much as I can and pull for them. Those uni's just got in my blood and the legacy of the Fearsome Foursome, Roman Gabriel, the Youngbloods, Hacksaw Reynolds, etc. After they were in the playoffs soooo many years back in the late '60s and '70s and some in the '80s without winning the Super Bowl, it was awesome to see Kurt Warner and Faulk lead them to finally win the Big One. It was long overdue. That season and Super Bowl was as awesome and storybook to me as the Angels in 2002. I never warmed to the Raiders when they were down here. Probably because I despised them so much in the '70s.

To me, it is tough to adopt a team that you didnt grow up with in your media market. So really, it is about the media market you are in. That is what really defines your Home teams. I know in NY, people dont sit on the fence. They either pull for one team or the other. But that is because of the underdog factor and the long time Yankee dynasty. Too much success is a bad thing sometimes. I know I grew bored watching the Lakers with Shaq because they SHOULD win with him. Except for the first Title with Phil Jackson, the recent other Titles were anti-climactic to me. I must say though, I was never really a fan of Shaq's game in the first place. My Laker legacy goes back to the days of Wilt, Elgin, West, Goodrich, Hairston. Then the 2nd coming with Magic, Kareem, Worthy, etc. I did enjoy the teams of the mid '90s before Shaq because I felt they were overachievers and played their hearts out and were exciting to watch with so many close games. I can honestly say though that I can count all the games I have watched the last two years on one hand! Where for baseball, I have Direct TV Extra Innings season package, MLB on XM radio, plus all the local broadcasts, so you know where my heart lies. Not to mention, two TVs in the Living room to watch both the Angels and the Dodgers.

I must say that the Extra Innings Package is a GREAT deal. Watching out-of-market teams on their home network with their own local flavor and ads on their broadcasts with their own broadcasters is really a revelation. I really enjoyed watching the Red Sox last year on it. I think they have a deal for $149 right now going for the whole season. Great deal! I get it for $139 being a renewing subscriber from last season. I paid $120 last July for just a half season, so it is outstanding. Also, you can just get the last month of the season for $39, which is great too with the pennant races. No, I dont work for MLB Extra Inninngs. :wink:

Back to the topic. I would be devastated if the Angels ended up moving somewhere far away and I am praying that never happens. But, if they stay put and there is some sense to what Moreno is doing and that gives him more revenue to buy and keep great players to compete with the Yankees of the world, then I am all for it. It's just a name, afterall and the media market IS Los Angeles. That's just the name of the game until some future change.

Personally, I like the O.C. Angels. Talk about being trendy. :D

[donjn]

This is my point. I say let the team go at this point, because he doesn't care about us down here anyway.

Prove that he does not care.

He's still here, throwing the Los Angeles name down our throats.

Not exactly. All the billboards around LA just have the big "A" or Angels. Plus very rarely does anyone say the city name. "Tonight the Yankees beat the Red Sox, 4-3"

And again, why would anyone else care about the name change outside of the area? This is about the people of Orange County getting shafted and robbed of their identity.

I would say getting "robbed of their identity" is a bit of a stretch. lol

Moreno could have stood up and lead the way for Orange County's own media market, which of course is how it should be.

Funny...And he will still make plenty of money for Anaheim..

San Diego has fewer people than Orange County, and they have a media market to themselves. It's time Orange County did too.

Now your comparing counties? I thought we were talking about cities? The city of San Diego absolutely dwarfs Anaheim. They deserve their own market.

And yes, Moreno can do what he wants, but that doesn't mean he can't be called on it when he does something that puts the entire franchise in jeopardy.

Okay stop right there. The franchise is in jeopardy? The Angels franchise is in Jeopardy? Thats news to me. They were number 3 in attendance last year in the majors behind the Dodgers and Yankees, they recently won the World Series, have signed superstars, and have one of the best farm systems right now in baseball. Yeah, perhaps they are in jeopardy.. Why? Because of people like you!

You might be able to call me alot of things, but one thing that can't be denied is that I am extremely passionate about this. Is this the kind of fan you'd want to lose? The kind that would show up through thick and thin to support the team?

According to you these are the "thin" times. This is when you are supposed to support your team. But to not be a fan because they changed their city name (not the team name mind you)? I have no problems losing fellow Angels fans who are THIS passionate about this.

He did the one and only thing that would drive me away from the organization, and I'm willing to wager that he's lost others with my kind of passion. Any team can be successful when they win, the key is to be successful when you lose. And by turning his back on the most loyal fans of the franchise, he's damaged any chance of that.

I can think of more things that SHOULD drive you away from an organization. Things that are a lot worse. Moving the team completely AWAY from the city, like 3,000 miles away (see the Rams). Or how about not paying anyone AND STILL raising ticket prices? (see the Dodgers)

Anyone that was there in 2002 will never forget what happened. The problem is that if MLB.com doesn't change their mistake, and other people follow, eventully people will say that Los Angeles won in 2002. It wasn't LA, it was Anaheim.

This is the only thing I agree with you about. The record books BETTER say Anaheim for 2002.

90% of the time, the lead baseball story is about the Dodgers. Every channel, including the Angels station, leads off with the Dodgers, then covers the Angels. Same with the Kings and Ducks (well the media really doesn't care about hockey at all). And do I really have to even discuss the differences between how the Lakers and Clippers are covered? The Clippers may as well be a minor league team. The Clippers maul the Lakers last night, and all the stories I heard were about how badly the Lakers lost, not how the Clippers won.

The only time the Angels got good coverage from the LA media was in 2002. Even last year, when both teams clinched on the same day, I'm willing to bet that Finley's hit was covered before Percy's last pitch as an Angel. I can't say that for sure because I was in Oakland, leading the charge there, but my guess is that the Dodgers got the brunt of the coverage that day, and I know they continued to do so for the whole week.

Okay now your grasping at straws. The Dodgers happened to clinch, at Home, during one of the best rivalries in sports, in an amazing 9th innning comeback game, on a walk-off grand slam. If you think the Angels pounding the A's (which was a very one-sided dull series honestly) in Oakland should have gotten more coverage then you are a fool.

This is how it is, the Dodgers are LA's team, and that's not going to change. Look at you, even you claim to be a fan of both teams. This is the problem that Angel fans had to face for years before 2002. Wishy washy fans who couldn't pick a team. It was always, yeah I like the Angels, but I'm really a Dodger fan, or a Yankee fan, or a Red Sox fan. And guess which team those people rooted for when their other team came to town...it sure wasn't the Angels.

Wrong again. Come to Dodger Stadium when the Cubs come to town, or the Mets. Half the stadium roots for the other team. Why? Everyone moves HERE, to LA. The weather, etc. There are less people from LA then there are people who moved here. Now go to Boston, hard core fans who for generations have all lived in THAT area. LA to US is like what the US is to the world. We are a mix of all the states rolled up into one.

2002 changed all that. And now it's being wiped away by this name change. The Angels will now forever be stuck behind the Dodgers, much like the Clippers will never escape the shadow of the Lakers. Maybe you, as a self professed fan of both teams don't care about that, but as someone that only cares about the Angels, maybe then you'd see the double standard that exists.

Don't ever say that the Angels are viewed like the Clippers in this area. You would be brutally wrong. The local media will always cover the Lakers first, and right they should..lol

But in Orange County, there is no double standard, the Angels are the team, by a 5 to 1 margin. At least that's what it was before the name change. He's given that up, so hey, guess what, now it's even easier to be a fan of both teams up in LA, because they're both yours now. Congrats.

Yes I am so much more excited now because they have "Los Angeles" in their name. Whopppeee! Forget the Dodgers, the Angels, changed their name. Local bars in LA will be packed with Angels fans, watching games....Look, things aren't going to change as much as you think..

It's going to be okay.

Plus you have Vlad Guerrero so shut the eff up..lol

[donjn]

One more thing while you are comparing "counties".

There are parts of Orange County that are further away from Anaheim then downtown Los Angeles.

[eohx21]

hey halofan wats the update on this stadium?

[HaloFan]

None. I haven't started yet, nor have i decided if I will actually go forward.

I have been looking up the new ads for this year, out of habit if nothing else. It's hard to watch the games, although I no longer get sick doing so sine I tape a piece of paper on the screen that says ANA over the disgusting and insulting LAA.

I'm going to finish the Angels photoset before I do anything else.

[Sidewinder]

I hope you do update Angel Stadium again. It just isnt the same with the default one. Makes me almost want to go play the '04 game just to see the Day version you did in that!

[AgentQ16]

halofan, i'm willing to give it a shot if it just involves EAGraphic Editor. I just don't get OEdit at all.

any help with EAGraph would be great.