Official Yankee fan thread

[sabugo]

So, where do we vote to put KC in charge? I agree with you 100% 

First step for me would be to let Cashman go. It was fun, but hey, the results just aren't there.
Judge should go. He'll want a huge contract that I don't think the Yankees should give him. It was fun while it lasted too.

In any sport, whenever your philosphy is to outscore the opponet, you're going to lose. There is more to the game than HR.

PS: KC, I know you're a busy man, but I'd still love to hear your ideas on that 'If you were creating a baseball game' topic

[Yankee4Life]

16 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

So what I'm going to do is take my time to rant.

 

So, over 3 games, the team's got 12 hits and 41 Ks. The lineup needs good contact hitters in a bad way. You're not winning in the LCS with a lineup of .230-.250 hitters who strikeout a ton and hit home runs occasionally. Top pitchers will always kill that lineup structure 10 times out of 10.

 

I agree with you here. Do you remember not so long ago when the Yankees were winning in the late nineties? They were praised for taking pitches and working the counts and getting on base. Does this team remotely resemble that? The way the Yankees are playing they play like they’re playing home run derby in Mvp ‘05. Just swing, swing, swing for the fences.

 

And I do not want to hear after this series that the Yankees just can not beat Houston. When you strike out forty-one times in three games you will not beat a single-A club. One hit through eight inning yesterday. Walter Johnson or Lefty Grove wouldn’t have beat Houston with that kind of support. And no more about that crap about Houston being cheaters. That was in 2017 and they’re not doing it now but they are still getting the same results.

 

16 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

I'm really ready as a fan to put the "Baby Bombers Era" to sleep tomorrow night though. I've come to the conclusion that it's been nothing but a complete dud.

 

It sure seems like it. They held on to those young guys longer than they should. Like Sanchez and Torres.

 

16 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

It's beginning to slap me in the face that every single rival or contemporary has lapped this team in terms of vision and organizational approach. You have the Astros, who are likely going to their fourth World Series in six years, and they've won* one already. Boston? They retooled and won a title. The Dodgers won a title and two pennants. The Rays won a pennant! In the period since they've won a WS, the Mets across town ALSO won a pennant!

 

I think that all these teams have used the Yankees as a base to build their ball clubs. They looked at what the Yankees have done and they went out and said “do the opposite.”

 

16 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

The Yankees have TWO division titles in 10 years and have tried to trot the same team out for 5 years now. I guarantee you that they will do this and try to gaslight all of us as fans that letting Judge walk to another team for more money is a good idea while they trot the same team out there next season with Peraza playing SS in AAA over IKF come spring training.

 

KC, I believe that if Judge (who is thirty-years-old) insists on a ten-year contract the Yankees should let him go. Who the hell knows how good he’s going to be in 2032? Let’s not forget this is the first year he has not been hurt. Five or six years? Fine.

 

I have not trusted the way the Yankees handle their young players for years. They know how to hype them up really well but when they are close to being ready to play in the Bronx they don’t promote them or if they do they screw them up. They had a fireballing righty in Joba Chamberlain but with their Joba Rules they messed him up. For awhile now they have touted Estevan Florial. We only see him for a game or two and then he’s back in Scranton. They are tooting the horn over that Jasson Dominguez guy but I am not falling for it until I see how he is in Yankee Stadium and not in Tampa in the spring.

 

16 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

Second-rate owner. Second-rate GM. Second-rate roster, a fourth-rate manager and a second-rate organization.

 

Even Michael Kay, a guy who thinks everything the Yankees do is wonderful, went off on Boone for taking out Cole yesterday. He could not understand it and neither could I.

 

It would be a nice off-season present to find out that Boone gets the boot after what he did yesterday.

 

16 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

I can't wait to see what 14 year old IFA that Cashman will decide to splurge on this off-season, because I sure am glad they didn't break the luxury tax so they didn't lose any of that international money. I can't wait to see him also tear up the minors and then never come-up because our moronic GM ends up blocking him with whatever cheap-ass stopgap he chose to sign instead of the multiple marquee free agents that were available.

 

Could not agree more. You said what I was thinking.

 

16 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

The fans deserve and expect better from the organization, chicken buckets be damned.

 

Chicken buckets be damned? That part I didn’t get.

[Ritchie]

article in the NY Post on 'How Terry Francona’s Red Sox did to Yankees what they must now do vs. Astros' - https://nypost.com/2022/10/23/how-terry-franconas-red-sox-did-what-yankees-must-do-vs-astros/.  This will never happen to these 2022 Stankees.  they embarrassed themselves in front of the world and will be embarrassed again tonight barring any rain out.

[Kccitystar]

14 minutes ago, Yankee4Life said:

I think that all these teams have used the Yankees as a base to build their ball clubs. They looked at what the Yankees have done and they went out and said “do the opposite.”

 

I'll be honest, Brian Cashman is not the worst GM in baseball, but someone needs to tell Hal and the rest of the organization that the biggest team in American sports should not be routinely outclassed by organizations spending far less money. If you don’t think the front offices of the Rays, Astros, Braves, etc. would outperform Cashman with his budget/headroom, you have to be kidding yourself. His complete lack of accountability has also filtered down to the players, too.

 

Boone himself is not a good manager. He isn’t tasked with much because the front office clearly doesn’t believe in delegating responsibilities to the baseball people, but the little he does do he bungles with completely boneheaded decisions (like taking out your ace who literally put the team on his back to get you to this point in the playoffs in favor of what's arguably your third/fourth best reliever with the bases loaded).

 

That said, if you think Boone is the problem, then we have to fault Cashman for continuing to bring him back.

 

14 minutes ago, Yankee4Life said:

Chicken buckets be damned? That part I didn’t get.

At Yankee Stadium, they sell Chicken buckets, basically a mix of chicken tenders and fries, which are a fan favorite because of their price/portion size along with a soda. A vast majority of the fanbase that attend the games (like me) will line up to order those because $15 dollar canned cocktails are where we draw the line, but I and the majority of fans can't come to the stadium and get a deal like that to support an organization that is not serious enough to put themselves in the best position both during the season and during the offseason about putting a championship caliber team on the field.

[Yankee4Life]

7 minutes ago, Ritchie said:

article in the NY Post on 'How Terry Francona’s Red Sox did to Yankees what they must now do vs. Astros' - https://nypost.com/2022/10/23/how-terry-franconas-red-sox-did-what-yankees-must-do-vs-astros/.  This will never happen to these 2022 Stankees.  they embarrassed themselves in front of the world and will be embarrassed again tonight barring any rain out.

 

First of all you don't know and secondly that Red Sox team was different than this Yankee team. Boston's team got on base and scored without always going for the home run.

 

9 minutes ago, Kccitystar said:

 

At Yankee Stadium, they sell Chicken Buckets which are a fan favorite because of their price/portion size along with a soda and a vast majority of the fanbase that attend the games will line up to order those because $15 dollar canned cocktails are where we draw the line

 

Well, that explains that! Meredith Marokovits never mentions this. 😄

[Kccitystar]

16 minutes ago, Yankee4Life said:

 

First of all you don't know and secondly that Red Sox team was different than this Yankee team. Boston's team got on base and scored without always going for the home run.

 

We also forget that their entire organization and philosphy/approach along with how the lineup was constructed is far different than the 2022 Yankees and their front office

[Ritchie]

Thanks a lot STANKEES for a another long winter ahead with nothing to show for it. Judge, please head home and sign with a team there. And the media was comparing this team to the '98 Yankees and '01 Mariners midsummer 😆.

 

[Kccitystar]

2 hours ago, Ritchie said:

Thanks a lot STANKEES for a another long winter ahead with nothing to show for it. Judge, please head home and sign with a team there. And the media was comparing this team to the '98 Yankees and '01 Mariners midsummer 😆.

 

 

To be honest, we had a ton of momentum leading into the break so I can understand the comparisons early on.

 

After yesterday's game though, I think Judge understands his time with the team has come to a close and I have no expectations that he would want to return to this sh*tshow. The Baby Bomber era is over and I'm okay with him walking.

The Yankees drafted Judge and couldn't get/develop one other guy to fit with him. The rest of the Yankee 1st rounders have been terrible. Even though the Astros tanked for a few seasons to get where they are, the product of those seasons who are still on the team are probably Alex Bregman and Kyle Tucker and the team augmented their entire roster to complement those guys. The rest of the Astros were later round picks that were there for anyone, or through trades and international league signings. Correa was gone and they didn't get any return for him, they just decided to roll the dice on Pena (a homegrown shortstop, the irony!) yet here they are in their 4th WS appearance in 6 years. The only revolving door they had all season was CF, while we've had to shuffle around who would play what position on the field and where they'd hit in the batting order almost every series so there was no level of consistency.

Imagine pulling up to work not knowing when your shift was every other day or working at that place where you had to on occasion cover a bunch of other duties that you probably couldn't do at 100% competency? Insane.
 
Outside of the Astros, clearly in the last decade there have been other teams across baseball that are doing something right that the Yankees are not as an organization, since a lot of personnel from recent WS winners have moved on to other organizations and some have been outright poached to GM/help other teams in the league. 

There's no vision, there's no passion, there is no mindset, there's no approach with this organization, at all, man. We can't develop guys properly, we can't set up a solid foundation for the homegrown talent to shine, we can't even spend the ridiculous budget we have on proven quality talent because we need to feel like the smartest guys in the room by searching the bargain bin for AAAA talent every offseason. Apparently the organization has long held this belief that we somehow have the organizational capacity to "fix" players past their prime even though we've struggled to develop our own stars in the past 10 years.

 

I say all that to say this: The Yankees as under Brian Cashman have hit their ceiling, and there is no real sign that they'll be able to break through in the upcoming years.  Over the last five years Hal, Cashman, and Boone have successfully been able to transform a team that lost to the Astros in seven games in 2017 into a team that lost to the Astros in four in 2022, and that point is not lost on a vast amount of the fanbase. He's not the worst GM and people will think he is because they're letting out their frustration (even though the guy has never had a losing season under his watch, which is an incredible record), but I feel like he's hit his ceiling. Even if you're solid at your job, when you hit that ceiling, it's really time to strongly consider a new voice.

[Yankee4Life]

It's true, when they were on that run everything looked great but good Lord things fell apart in a hurry. ☹️

 

KC, I ask you and everyone else here. When does a ten-year contract work? How did Rodriguez or Pujols look near the end of theirs? They were shells of their former selves. I don't want to have the Yankee announcers in 2032 trying to sell a forty-year-old Aaron Judge when he walks up to the plate with his .140 average and six home runs with ninety-three strikeouts by saying "remember, he broke the Yankee record ten years ago!"

 

If Judge leaves look for him to have a good year or two and then the wheels will start falling off the wagon.

 

We need to develop players better like KC said but we also need to draft better and if it means getting scouts from other organizations then I am all for it.

 

The Yankees under Brian Cashman have hit their ceiling? I think that sums everything up. Throw in a manager that was outclassed in the playoffs and players who quit on the team (Chapman) and no accountability towards the players when they do something wrong. I mean Boone making excuses for Donaldson for not hustling? We don't want Donaldson to get mad and pout do we?

 

I think we saw the end of Judge in the Bronx. Sorry to see that but then again what the hell did we win with him there?

 

The Yankees will do what they always do. Promise "change" and a further commitment to winning the World Series next year. Some minor moves will be made and in the spring the papers will hype them up but in the end basically the same team will take the field and they will try to convince us that this time it's going to be different.

 

Insanity Is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. This is what's happening here.

 

 

[Yankee4Life]

Ok, it's time for Y4L's yearly maid service where I clean up the Yankee roster. These are players who either are useless to the team or for one reason or another need to go.

 

Pitchers

 

Goodbye, we won't miss you: Aroldis Chapman and Frankie Montas

 

When we really needed you that's when you choked the most: Domingo German and Luis Severino

 

We'll never miss you: Lucas Luetge and Miguel Castro

 

What the hell happened to you? Deivi Garcia

 

Hitters

 

Thanks, but get lost and go away: Josh Donaldson, Aaron Hicks, Gleyber Torres, Marwin Gonzalez and DJ LeMahieu.

 

We need to get younger: Matt Carpenter

 

You're going for ten years? Let me put it in a way you may understand. Hell no.: Aaron Judge.

 

This would be a great holiday gift: Giancarlo Stanton, Brian Cashman and Aaron Boone.

[Kccitystar]

1 hour ago, Yankee4Life said:

It's true, when they were on that run everything looked great but good Lord things fell apart in a hurry. ☹️

 

KC, I ask you and everyone else here. When does a ten-year contract work? How did Rodriguez or Pujols look near the end of theirs? They were shells of their former selves. I don't want to have the Yankee announcers in 2032 trying to sell a forty-year-old Aaron Judge when he walks up to the plate with his .140 average and six home runs with ninety-three strikeouts by saying "remember, he broke the Yankee record ten years ago!"

 

If Judge leaves look for him to have a good year or two and then the wheels will start falling off the wagon.

 

We need to develop players better like KC said but we also need to draft better and if it means getting scouts from other organizations then I am all for it.

 

The Yankees under Brian Cashman have hit their ceiling? I think that sums everything up. Throw in a manager that was outclassed in the playoffs and players who quit on the team (Chapman) and no accountability towards the players when they do something wrong. I mean Boone making excuses for Donaldson for not hustling? We don't want Donaldson to get mad and pout do we?

 

I think we saw the end of Judge in the Bronx. Sorry to see that but then again what the hell did we win with him there?

 

The Yankees will do what they always do. Promise "change" and a further commitment to winning the World Series next year. Some minor moves will be made and in the spring the papers will hype them up but in the end basically the same team will take the field and they will try to convince us that this time it's going to be different.

 

Insanity Is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. This is what's happening here.

 

 

 

I really liked the structure of Julio Rodriguez's contract that's likely going to keep him a Mariner for life over these ridiculous deals we would normally toss out for guys. His contract at least has an out for the team if he falls flat, but if he performs up to his potential, he gets paid market value.

 

I mean I know I've been armchair-GM'ing all day but where would we even go this offseason? Signing Judge will be a massive contract. We'd be paying what, $30M/year for Donaldson and IKF? Plus $8M for Montas? Hicks has $30M left on his terrible contract at $10M/year.
 

So effectively, three stupid blunders eat up every bit of the salary the team could have used to lock down Judge and then some. Now they're stuck with three useless roster spots with players nobody even wants. I'm afraid that if Judge comes back, that's the ONLY big move Hal and the front office are going to make. I'm glad we have Peraza and Cabrera because I have a feeling that's our SS and 2B next year, and the rest will pretty much look the same. If I were Judge, I'd look at that and cringe.

 

I'm also pretty certain Judge would invest a serious amount into his conditioning after seeing the benefits for him this season, and he'll keep putting up consistent numbers on a team that's actually constructed well enough for his offense to make the team itself a juggernaut (thus keeping unnecessary pressure away from him having to constantly "deliver") vs having to carry a team and their offense on his back the way that he did this season (which warps the expectations of the fans). I'm just bummed that the organization couldn't figure to build around him and lock him down long term knowing just how talented he was as far back as 2017. I mean, we ALL saw the HR derby in 2017, and knew this kid was the real deal.

 

I'm okay with him walking though, honestly. Seeing how some other contracts are hurting the team, I just don't think that the Yankees can give Judge what he wants. He did an incredible thing this season and got this team into the playoffs, but he won't be hitting 60+ homeruns next season, obviously. If the rest of the team was actually really solid, you absolutely have to pay him, but we have too many bad contracts as it is.

 

[Yankee4Life]

15 minutes ago, Kccitystar said:

If Judge walks, I'm pretty certain he'll invest a serious amount in his conditioning after seeing the benefits for him this season and he'll keep putting up consistent numbers on a team that's actually constructed well enough for his offense to make the team itself a juggernaut vs having to carry a team and their offense on his back the way that he did this season. I'm just bummed that the organization couldn't figure to build around him and lock him down long term knowing just how talented he was as far back as 2017. I mean, we ALL saw the HR derby in 2017, and knew this kid was the real deal.

 

Yeah, that's right. They had a chance years ago to do what Tampa did with Franco and Seattle with Rodriguez with Judge. They could have packaged a deal for Jude that would have made this upcoming free agency  a non issue.

 

18 minutes ago, Kccitystar said:

I'm okay with him walking, honestly. Seeing how some other contracts are hurting the team, I just don't think that the Yankees can give Judge what he wants. He did an incredible thing this season and got this team into the playoffs, but he won't be hitting 60+ homeruns next season. If the rest of the team was actually really solid, you absolutely have to pay him, but we have too many bad contracts as it is.

 

Bad contracts with little to show for it. Stanton and Donaldson come to mind. At least we get rid of Chapman's.

 

Personally I won't spend five minutes on whether Judge comes back or not.  Why should I? I won't be concerned when a millionaire mulls over the options of becoming a multi-millionaire. I have better things to do.

[ming]

Just chiming in here to say thanks for this dialogue. I respect you guys for your baseball acumen and have for years now and while I'm a Mets fan, I have been pulling for Judge to beat the record and have indirectly followed the yanks fairly close down the stretch even as my Mets faded...cough. You guys are spot on. Bombs and legends fill seats and create buzz, but baseball remains a sport for younger men and well-rounded rosters. Thanks for the intelligent thread!

[Yankee4Life]

10 hours ago, ming said:

Just chiming in here to say thanks for this dialogue. I respect you guys for your baseball acumen and have for years now and while I'm a Mets fan, I have been pulling for Judge to beat the record and have indirectly followed the yanks fairly close down the stretch even as my Mets faded...cough. You guys are spot on. Bombs and legends fill seats and create buzz, but baseball remains a sport for younger men and well-rounded rosters. Thanks for the intelligent thread!

 

Thank you. Feel free to come in here any time you want to. This is not a private thread by any means.

[Jim825]

It appears that Aaron Boone will be back as Yankees manager next year according to Hal Steinbrenner:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/yankees-owner-hal-steinbrenner-says-he-intends-to-keep-aaron-boone-on-as-manager/

[Kccitystar]

16 hours ago, ming said:

Just chiming in here to say thanks for this dialogue. I respect you guys for your baseball acumen and have for years now and while I'm a Mets fan, I have been pulling for Judge to beat the record and have indirectly followed the yanks fairly close down the stretch even as my Mets faded...cough. You guys are spot on. Bombs and legends fill seats and create buzz, but baseball remains a sport for younger men and well-rounded rosters. Thanks for the intelligent thread!

 

I'd rather articulate my full thoughts to the thread than tidbits in the chatbox since it's easier to explain context and nuance this way with some takes.

 

Also, I've been listening to a lot of fan podcasts and Michael Kay/Cone/Sabathia commentary on the team's 2022 season and playoff performance and the one common thread I keep hearing among fans and prominent personalities among the team is that the organization is run differently these days, and I've decided to just call the team the Zombie Yankees as I'd rather not taint my fond memories of the 90s teams.

 

Calling them the Zombie Yankees is a lot more fitting considering they keep thumping out that same mission statement every year even though the sport itself has evolved far beyond the traditional method of building out teams and having championship windows. In the past 15 years or so, I've found that a lot of teams that are utilizing an analytical approach are actually investing a LOT into scouting and player development because new age GMs and owners actually came to the understanding that building out a franchise that is sustainable brings far more value and consistent revenue than just riding a hot core for 3 seasons as part of a "championship window", then overhauling your roster with free agents in those declining years as you're pulling off a dog and pony show appealing to nostalgia to keep butts in seats. The Yankees have had an aging front office and with that aging front office comes an echo chamber of old ideas and old approaches that don't fit the modern game. It's kind of why they haven't been as deep into the playoffs as recent as 2017 and internally they've struggled to develop prospects (Past 20 years the only homegrown guys they've built up have been Cano, Gardner, Judge, Severino among others but it's a small handful) and when they do successfully build up guys to call them up, they screw up their confidence by starting/stopping their momentum at the major league level to truly shine (Peraza/Cabrera)
 

A lot of orgs have also come to understand that harvesting talent in perpetuity will keep you in a permanent competitive window forever *regardless* of who leaves through trades or free agency. Look at the Dodgers. The Dodgers are arguably what the Yankees should have been: An organization that can develop guys constantly so even if a SS like Trea Turner leaves this offseason they will almost always have the depth to fill that need internally, and they don't necessarily need to tank either for picks because they already develop homegrown talent well enough to trade current star talent and get prospects in perpetuity.

[Yankee4Life]

Today is Opening Day and the only one that matters to me is the one down in the Bronx this afternoon. As I write this I am unsure if the game will go on because up here in Central New York we had snow last night. But then again I am not in the Bronx and that is where it counts.

 

I say this every year and I never seem to last but this year I am not going to be getting excited and upset when they lose.** It’s going to happen just like with every team. I don’t see the Yankees improving on what they did last year. That being said, why scream and get mad? Just watch the games.

 

The Yankees already had me mad with this Frankie Montas nonsense. Montas admitted that he came over here from Oakland with an injured shoulder. That tells me one of two things. The Yankee medical staff is incompetent and they completely missed it or Cashman knew this and wanted to get him anyway. Either way with him being out until August (yeah right) it is all on them.

 

Luis Severino in my opinion should not be a Yankee next year. In fact if he is traded in July even better. He does not want to play and I believe he extends his injury time just so he can stay out longer.

 

I am pulling for Anthony Volpe and I wish him well and I hope he has a great year.

 

These rule changes are a disgrace. I have been wondering why they had to be put in. When I was first watching baseball we did not have a pitch clock or bigger bases or rules where you can’t barrel down a catcher. The games were faster then and they had mound visits, catchers going out to the mound, throws to first and shifts. Why could those players do it but not today’s players?

 

Interleague play has killed the excitement of the possible World Series opponents because now everyone faces everyone and oh, screw it.

 

The designated hitter is fifty years old this year and they finally have ruined the National League with this rule.

 

I miss baseball for what it was. I am not too happy with how it is being played today.

 

I don’t expect anyone to agree with me. That is why I am not going to get as upset this year as I have in here in the past.

 

**Did you read that Jim? 👍

[Yankee4Life]

 

As photographers take pictures, New York Yankees' Anthony Volpe returns to the dugout after warming-up before the opening day baseball game against the San Francisco Giants at Yankee Stadium Thursday, March 30, 2023 in the Bronx, New York.

 

 

 

New York Yankees' Anthony Volpe steals second base behind San Francisco Giants shortstop Brandon Crawford during the third inning at Yankee Stadium Thursday, March 30, 2023. The Yankees won 5 - 0.

 

 

Anthony Volpe fields a ball during the sixth inning against the San Francisco Giants at Yankee Stadium Thursday, March 30, 2023. The Yankees won 5 - 0.

 

[Yankee4Life]

Jim, there is no way that I prefer games to go three hours or four hours long. This is why I have refused to watch the Yankee - Red Sox games because they drag on and on and on. Remember a few years back when they played a doubleheader at Fenway Park and both games took about eight hours combined? That's too much. When a Yankee game starts at Fenway Park at 7:00 PM you can almost guarantee they will only have 3 1/2 innings in around 9:15. Both teams are guilty of this and not one more than the other. So to just confirm I am agreeing with you that when games are played at a quicker pace they are more interesting and you do get more involved in them. I mean my God I can go watch an episode of Magnum PI and I would only miss two innings.

 

And no I do not enjoy hitters stepping out between every pitch to adjust their gloves or their hat or their uniform or to have them look at their bat to make sure they brought the right one. All that is a time waster. Do you remember Mike Hargrove of the Cleveland Indians? He drove people nuts with his routine. Now everybody does it to get more TV time.

 

Jim, when you when I first started watching baseball in the 1970s it was a better game than what these people are playing right now. The game was quicker and you have to consider that the catcher had unlimited visits to the mound, the pitcher could throw to first base as many times as he wanted to, teams had the option if they wanted to do a shift or not. As far as pitcher delays they did that to try to install until the bullpen guy was warmed up.The game was played more intelligently during those days and since that was the game I was introduced to I did not appreciate it as much until it was slowly taken away and replaced by the rules and regulations we see today.

 

KC says that the pitch clock eliminates and the dead time during the game. Again you guys make a point. I mean with some batters I was able to go in the kitchen and make a sandwich and come back before the next guy was up.

 

My question is this: if baseball from the 1970s did not need a pitch clock and yet all that other stuff was still in the game why can't they do it today? Okay only let them step out of the batter's box once and if they have to do it the second time make sure they have permission from the umpire for example if they have dirt in their eyes.

 

I am sure that you all could tell that I am a baseball traditionalist and it is almost like I cannot recognize the same game I grew up with.

[Jim825]

A lot has changed since we first started watching baseball 50 years ago. Pitchers went longer in games and there were fewer pitching changes. When there were pitching changes, they lasted longer than one batter. Once teams started using “specialists” to pitch to one or two batters, it contributed to slowing down the game so MLB finally stepped in and made it so that a relief pitcher had to finish an inning or pitch to a minimum of 3 batters. 
 

When batters walked to the plate, they were ready to hit. They might step out once or at most twice but it wasn’t between every pitch and it wasn’t every batter. There were no bat flips and no admiring home runs. You hit the ball and you ran the bases. 
 

When the pitcher got the ball, he was ready to pitch. Yes, they had to go through the signs with the catcher, but once they agreed, the ball was thrown. Before the pitch clock, how many recent pitchers would take 20-30 seconds between pitches?  It was painful to watch. 
 

In the “old days” there were no manager challenges, no umpire reviews, etc.  MLB added these to try to fix mistakes but it also added more time to games. 
 

I don’t recall shifts being used in the game as much as they were in recent years and I really didn’t like them. To me, shifts took some of the unpredictability out of the game.  It’s easy to tell batters not to hit into the shift but that’s easier said than done with pitchers throwing harder and faster today. 

[Kccitystar]

2 hours ago, Jim825 said:

A lot has changed since we first started watching baseball 50 years ago. Pitchers went longer in games and there were fewer pitching changes. When there were pitching changes, they lasted longer than one batter. Once teams started using “specialists” to pitch to one or two batters, it contributed to slowing down the game so MLB finally stepped in and made it so that a relief pitcher had to finish an inning or pitch to a minimum of 3 batters. 
 

When batters walked to the plate, they were ready to hit. They might step out once or at most twice but it wasn’t between every pitch and it wasn’t every batter. There were no bat flips and no admiring home runs. You hit the ball and you ran the bases. 
 

When the pitcher got the ball, he was ready to pitch. Yes, they had to go through the signs with the catcher, but once they agreed, the ball was thrown. Before the pitch clock, how many recent pitchers would take 20-30 seconds between pitches?  It was painful to watch. 
 

In the “old days” there were no manager challenges, no umpire reviews, etc.  MLB added these to try to fix mistakes but it also added more time to games. 
 

I don’t recall shifts being used in the game as much as they were in recent years and I really didn’t like them. To me, shifts took some of the unpredictability out of the game.  It’s easy to tell batters not to hit into the shift but that’s easier said than done with pitchers throwing harder and faster today. 

 

Shifts are a valid strategy to address hitter tendencies but just like illegal formations on football, the league has to make rule adjustments to avoid "three true outcome" baseball which has been slowly poisoning the sport as more and more teams leverage data for decision making on the field.

 

My hot take on all of these rules changes this year is that I am far more comfortable with a shorter game with more balls put in play than a long 4 hour affair where both teams cumulatively put 10 balls in play, especially attending those long 97 degree scorchers at field level in July.

[marty65]

Hey guys

 

That was so great to read, really enjoyable and reasoned discussion and responses by 3 guys who, quite obviously, love this wonderful game.

sure, we all vent, that’s us being sports fans but I really love it when you guys get right into  a baseball issue. I’m a Dodgers fan but have always had an interest in the Yankees, I think primarily because of their amazing and storied history but you guys give me a more personal perspective of what it is to be a Yankees fan. 
love it guys, keep on doing what you do and saying what you say because, unlike a lot of other members, I love the banter and the “back and forth”, it keeps things “real”

 

[Yankee4Life]

13 hours ago, Jim825 said:

A lot has changed since we first started watching baseball 50 years ago. Pitchers went longer in games and there were fewer pitching changes. When there were pitching changes, they lasted longer than one batter. Once teams started using “specialists” to pitch to one or two batters, it contributed to slowing down the game so MLB finally stepped in and made it so that a relief pitcher had to finish an inning or pitch to a minimum of 3 batters.

 

That's the truth. Pitchers dd go longer. Let's take for example one of our favorite years, the 1978 Yankees. They had thirty-nine complete games that year. With the way Boone runs the pitchers it will take them them years to have that many complete games. Ok, I better not get started on Boone because then I'll get off the subject.

 

13 hours ago, Jim825 said:

When batters walked to the plate, they were ready to hit. They might step out once or at most twice but it wasn’t between every pitch and it wasn’t every batter. There were no bat flips and no admiring home runs. You hit the ball and you ran the bases. 
 

 

Damn straight they did. And it wasn't every hitter. That's true. I already mentioned Hargrove but Willie Montanez and Tito Fuentes were in the same league.

 

I hate bat flips and pitchers who act like they won the World Series when they retire the side or save a game. They do this because they know they are on TV and maybe could be a Sportscenter highlight.

 

13 hours ago, Jim825 said:

When the pitcher got the ball, he was ready to pitch. Yes, they had to go through the signs with the catcher, but once they agreed, the ball was thrown. Before the pitch clock, how many recent pitchers would take 20-30 seconds between pitches?  It was painful to watch.

 

No argument here.

 

13 hours ago, Jim825 said:

In the “old days” there were no manager challenges, no umpire reviews, etc.  MLB added these to try to fix mistakes but it also added more time to games.

 

That is another thing I don't like. Instant replay does not belong in baseball. I kind of wonder how retired players think of the game today?

 

13 hours ago, Jim825 said:

I don’t recall shifts being used in the game as much as they were in recent years and I really didn’t like them. To me, shifts took some of the unpredictability out of the game.  It’s easy to tell batters not to hit into the shift but that’s easier said than done with pitchers throwing harder and faster today. 

 

The first I ever heard of a shift in baseball was when I was reading a book on the Indians of the 1940's and player-manager Lou Boudreau used a shift on Ted Williams. I don't recall of many instances of the shift in the 70's. George Brett said once that if the shift was used on him he'd of hit .600. I am no fan of his but I believe him.

 

The cause of this? Analytics. Computer guys who have ruined the game.

11 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

 

Shifts are a valid strategy to address hitter tendencies but just like illegal formations on football, the league has to make rule adjustments to avoid "three true outcome" baseball which has been slowly poisoning the sport as more and more teams leverage data for decision making on the field.

 

 

That's true KC. I trust a manager making the decisions instead of a computer. Billy Martin may have been a lot of things but he could manage. Earl Weaver knew what he was doing too as well as Whitey Herzog. They were winners without computer printouts.

 

11 hours ago, Kccitystar said:

 

My hot take on all of these rules changes this year is that I am far more comfortable with a shorter game with more balls put in play than a long 4 hour affair where both teams cumulatively put 10 balls in play, especially attending those long 97 degree scorchers at field level in July.

 

I have been to some minor league games when it was that hot and with no breeze at all so I understand what you mean.

 

9 hours ago, marty65 said:

Hey guys

 

That was so great to read, really enjoyable and reasoned discussion and responses by 3 guys who, quite obviously, love this wonderful game.

sure, we all vent, that’s us being sports fans but I really love it when you guys get right into  a baseball issue. I’m a Dodgers fan but have always had an interest in the Yankees, I think primarily because of their amazing and storied history but you guys give me a more personal perspective of what it is to be a Yankees fan. 
love it guys, keep on doing what you do and saying what you say because, unlike a lot of other members, I love the banter and the “back and forth”, it keeps things “real”

 

 

It doesn't matter if you are a Dodgers fan. What you are is a baseball fan just like we are so please feel free at any time to basically talk about anything!

[Kccitystar]

You took the time to get back to all of us. I respect that!

 

I personally, as someone who works for a data research company, feel like the idea of using analytics to optimize performance or being able to predict outcomes is not new to me. While analytics can provide valuable insights, I strongly believe that they should never be the sole factor in decision-making and team management. That overreliance is toxic to any organization in baseball, because the game is played by humans, and machines can't capture the intangible stuff baseball provides, like the emotional state of a player, the chemistry of a team, or the impact of a key play on a team's momentum.

 

You had mentioned guys like Herzog and Earl Weaver, who were awesome managers but the funny part about this is that Earl Weaver was actually one of the first pioneers who utilized analytics! 

 

He was such a tactician on the baseball field who embraced new ideas and techniques to maximize his team's offensive production. He was one of the first managers to:

• Implement a platoon system based on how well guys hit against lefties/righties
• Advocate for valuing OBP as a way of measuring how guys contributed offensively so if you had a high OBP, chances are you were penciled in his lineups
• One of the first managers who started using defensive shifts based on tendencies from player statistics
• The most important thing of all though is that he was able to develop young guys and utilizing the analytics of the time to put them in situations where they could succeed. The platoon system he believed in helped so many undervalued players under his wing.

Herzog is in a sense, the yin to Weaver's yang as Herzog wasn't reliant on the analytics of the time but he placed a strong emphasis on defense and refined the John McGraw style of small ball with speed on the basepaths, aggressive baserunning and good defense. Billy Martin, bless his soul, is a master tactician whose managerial style was actually a hybrid of both, but the fiery personality and competitive spirit was all Billy.

 

Man I love baseball.

[Yankee4Life]

Now that's true about Weaver. I can recall John Lowenstein, an outfielder, complaining about being platooned by Weaver with Gary Roenicke.

 

Again I have to go back to the baseball books I read as a kid. I devoured them because I couldn't get enough of them. Casey Stengel of the Yankees was big on platooning and he even was doing that before he became the Yankee manager in 1949. Hank Bauer did not like the platoon system but then begrudgingly said that Stengel extended his career by bout five years by doing it.

 

52 minutes ago, Kccitystar said:

Man I love baseball.

 

You really do. That has always been obvious to me since our High Heat days. Most people your age think that baseball started with Derek Jeter and not a day before. Your knowledge of its history and your willingness to learn more and more about the game is impressive.