RedSoxFox7 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I love MVP, and it's gotten progressively better over the past 3 seasons. With EA's constant improvements, I seriously hope they can find a work around to Take Two's exclusive 3rd party license. However, MVP still does fall short on a lot of the more intricate parts of the game (as does every other current game). The little things like multiple team trades, salary arbitration, rule 5 draft, and basically everything else about the Hot Stove League. Then there's little rules, like being able to move a DH to a fielding position, and forcing the pitcher to bat, or even just allowing a batter to pitch. I'm not trying to knock MVP in the least bit. I'm just curious, do you think we will someday have a baseball video game that follows all the rules of baseball, and accurately represents the player's market and the things that are possible in it? Personally, I don't think we'll ever see such a game from a major vendor like EA, 989, Take Two, etc. I think the only way we'll ever see a game like this is for it to be developed by an independent party. It would need to be developed by people who are fans first, and game developers second. I don't know how many of you are in to PC racing games, but there is a racing game that was created in a similar manner to what I'm talking about for baseball. It's called Live For Speed. It started off very small, but it's grown into a game worthy of comparison to games like Forza Motorsports and Gran Turismo. I can only hope there are some baseball fans out there with the programming abilities of the people behind LFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llcmac Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 In the year 3214 on my 1230th birthday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjbushido Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 In my dreams it will happen. There will always something missing, we are human after all...... unless robots started to make the games 8O ..doubt it :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickel2 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I can say (apart from peoples' stuttering issues) that this one is pretty good. I think I can settle for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kccitystar Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 There are many reasons why a game will never get the "perfect" label from me. Mainly because baseball is a very very hard sport to replicate. There is a mind game that goes along with it and it deals with probability also, especially dealing with statistics. Another reason is because the people who make this game are indeed human, and there will be bugs in every game. The duty of the programmer is to try and make the bugs in the game as non-existant as possible, or to try and make the bugs in the game not affect the gameplay or hurt the user's experience. :wink: A baseball game will never be "perfect" because there are a variety of people with different views of the sport. You have the casual fan, and then there are the statistical freaks, who pay extremely close attention to detail. There is no way a game can ever be perfect and able to appeal to everyone. The only way that would be possible would be if the game were Open Source. Now, if the game was an Open Source project, do you know how many editions of MVP we would have? :| ...think of the possibilities. Oh baby. Now that's a thought to ponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APR Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 There are many reasons why a game will never get the "perfect" label from me. Mainly because baseball is a very very hard sport to replicate. There is a mind game that goes along with it and it deals with probability also, especially dealing with statistics. Another reason is because the people who make this game are indeed human, and there will be bugs in every game. The duty of the programmer is to try and make the bugs in the game as non-existant as possible, or to try and make the bugs in the game not affect the gameplay or hurt the user's experience. :wink: A baseball game will never be "perfect" because there are a variety of people with different views of the sport. You have the casual fan, and then there are the statistical freaks, who pay extremely close attention to detail. There is no way a game can ever be perfect and able to appeal to everyone. The only way that would be possible would be if the game were Open Source. Now, if the game was an Open Source project, do you know how many editions of MVP we would have? :| ...think of the possibilities. Oh baby. Now that's a thought to ponder. Couldn't of said it any better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comfortablylomb Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 RBI Baseball, Baseball Simulator 1.000, and Baseball Stars all say hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 This thread is pointless...nothing in the world is "perfect".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 This thread is pointless...nothing in the world is "perfect".. Depends on your definition of perfect. I don't think any baseball game will ever be perfect for the reasons that KC gave, as well as the fact that it would be incredibly hard to create the perfect game. Bear in mind the amount of statistical data that baseball has accumulated over the years. Every single piece of that would have to be incorporated into the game for it to be perfect, ranging from how a certain batter does against a certain pitcher, and a pitchers ERA in day and night games. If this theoretical perfect game was to ever happen, it would have to be years into the future, because I imagine the statistical data alone would take up a GB or 2 of disk space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The H Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 There's never going to be a 'perfect' game... EVER... why? because people will ALWAYS whine about 'this' or 'that'. Hey, not even if a game like this goes Open Source, as stated by KC, because let me tell you this... I work with people in charge of several very know big open source projects... and they are far from 'perfect' because there are (and always will be) way too many factors involved and way too many 'needs/requirements' that nobody will be EVER able to fully cater to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELDoro Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 i too do not believe there will ever been a perfect game in most peoples eyes..... people will always wine as my fellow Red's fan The H said. Even if it was 100% realistic....people would complain that it was too hard....because the game of baseball is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Unit Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I'm usually a pretty negative person but I will say even though there is no such thing as a "perfect" baseball game per se, MVP 2005 is as close as you can get to perfect (to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvarr Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I'm usually a pretty negative person but I will say even though there is no such thing as a "perfect" baseball game per se, MVP 2005 is as close as you can get to perfect (to me). It is close...but the addition of arbitration, Rule V, waivers, Minor League Options, and multiple team trades (3-way?) and trading cash or Players to be Named Later (very common in baseball) would be a big upgrade to what is currently there. Too bad that EA couldn't work on "Next Years Game" and basically make the above mentioned an add-in to the current engine (not gonna happen, I know) basically making a new game for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APR Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 It is close...but the addition of arbitration, Rule V, waivers, Minor League Options, and multiple team trades (3-way?) and trading cash or Players to be Named Later (very common in baseball) would be a big upgrade to what is currently there. Too bad that EA couldn't work on "Next Years Game" and basically make the above mentioned an add-in to the current engine (not gonna happen, I know) basically making a new game for us. This is why we will never have a "perfect" baseball game. He wanted arbritration, the Rule V Draft, waivers, Minor League Options, and 3-ways among other stuff. But I don't need that stuff In a game. There may also be options that I would want in a game that he doesn't necessarily think are needed in the "perfect" baseball game. Because we are not the same, our views of what a perfect baseball game differ. There will never be a "perfect" game because we are all different and want different things. For a "perfect" game to be created, one would need to make a game specified towards our individual needs, which will never happen. But for right now, MVPMods is doing the right thing by making the game as best as we can get it. And that is all it will ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peerless Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Just because you don't want the Rule V draft and other enhancements doesn't mean others don't. They could easily add those and just give the user the option to turn them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvarr Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Just because you don't want the Rule V draft and other enhancements doesn't mean others don't. They could easily add those and just give the user the option to turn them off. Ideally, any company should incorporate all that stuff, and then give the users the option to turn on and off what they want...that way, they can make it as arcadey or simulation as they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 IMO if you are looking for a true baseball game try Out of the Park Baseball, Its a simulation text based game but it has all the topics you covered in your above thread. This is about the closest game to real baseball I ever played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvarr Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 IMO if you are looking for a true baseball game try Out of the Park Baseball, Its a simulation text based game but it has all the topics you covered in your above thread. This is about the closest game to real baseball I ever played I know about OoTP...and I agree, it is a good game. I like to play games (graphically) though too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APR Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Just because you don't want the Rule V draft and other enhancements doesn't mean others don't. They could easily add those and just give the user the option to turn them off. I was just making a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefpsu Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 An Open Source baseball game... now there's an idea. The 3D graphics would be the difficult part of creating such a project, but if someone were ambitious enough to start it, it might just work. With the level of community involvement here, both through ideas and programming, I think it would take off. Hell yeah! Anybody rich here? Buy the rights to MVP and its code after this year and open it up to the public!!! Or maybe EA will be nice and donate the code... what better way to undermine Take 2 than to release the code and let all of the hardcore baseball gamers take it over! Okay... back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFox7 Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 An Open Source baseball game... now there's an idea. The 3D graphics would be the difficult part of creating such a project, but if someone were ambitious enough to start it, it might just work. With the level of community involvement here, both through ideas and programming, I think it would take off. Hell yeah! Anybody rich here? Buy the rights to MVP and its code after this year and open it up to the public!!! Or maybe EA will be nice and donate the code... what better way to undermine Take 2 than to release the code and let all of the hardcore baseball gamers take it over! Okay... back to reality. When MS bought the rights to the High Heat series (or maybe it was when 3DO announced they were selling the rights, I forget), and then did absolutely nothing with them, I was hoping they'd release them into the public domain or sell them to some kind of open source project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolliefingers08 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 actually for the perfect game to be created, wouldn't it have all the possible things that have been mentioned and the OPTION to use them or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetruth10 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 i forgot about the DH thing. I was going to make a post about it last week but forgot about it. That is really annoying that you can't change the position of the DH. How they could leave that out I have no idea. seems like the type of thing you have to include. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFox7 Posted April 2, 2005 Author Share Posted April 2, 2005 actually for the perfect game to be created, wouldn't it have all the possible things that have been mentioned and the OPTION to use them or not? Oh, absolutely. It wouldn't be perfect if you were forced to play in a style that wasn't of your choosing. Perfect would be including all the little bits of MLB, such as the things that have been mentioned (Rule 5, multiple team deals, trading cash, arbitration, DH substitution, etc.), and giving the user complete control over which bits they had to play with. I'd actually be more concerned with issues of hard coding, than most gameplay issues. At least in the case of MVP, gameplay can be tweaked to no end. We've got people doing sliders, player progression mods, roster mods, etc. The only thing really missing is the hard coded inclusion of those minor tidbits that a true baseball fan would miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFox7 Posted April 2, 2005 Author Share Posted April 2, 2005 i forgot about the DH thing. I was going to make a post about it last week but forgot about it. That is really annoying that you can't change the position of the DH. How they could leave that out I have no idea. seems like the type of thing you have to include. That's one thing that's bugged me through the MVP line. I've actually had a few instances where it was late in the game, and I had a justification for pulling a double switch that would cause me to lose my DH. Situations where the starting pitcher was a lefty, so I had guys like Trot Nixon out of the lineup. Then in the later innings, a righty is brought in, and it just happens that my DH isn't so hot against righties, but I can't sub Trot in at DH, or I won't be able to put him in RF. Stuff like that. I remember back in the days of Hardball III, it had the proper DH rule, but it was slightly flawed. Somehow by switching the pitcher and the DH, you could fudge with the lineup, and reorganize your batting order in the middle of a game, without losing your DH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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